This thread has been moved to SeaToss on the forums.
Just think it’s important to note that some match ups are played better with less zoning. Try and zone Kung and he’ll win for free. Program the player to use his GTFO moves, then bait and punish. 2,2 pressure in corner (you can’t jump over it) Clone never did much for me in the match up.
I totally agree, but w/o complete use of the clones your still limited in mixups, with Kang, the best solution is rush with a push in mind, putting the clone to force him to slow down or attempt a projectile war. And 9/10 Sub Zero benefits from that. Clones are important in every scenario, that’s why I over-emphasized the use of them, it’s just a matter of the placement and timing, it might come out better on video when I can start that.
I just recently was in a local tourney and used sub, and I got second. I lost in grand finals (badly) to a Kung Lao who was consistent in rush down, knew when to use his dive kicks, didn’t drop shit in terms of combos, and used teleport respectively. I have found this to be sub’s hardest matchup so far. Anyone who has a safe string of moves and heavy pressure, and also has a very easy time getting in on you is a nightmare… I found that you have to be on edge the whole match and be hiding behind a clone constantly while looking to uppercut his teleports… the reason it’s so hard to apply pressure to bait unsafe moves is that stupid spin! Can’t win the projectile war either because his hats are insanely fast. You have to get lucky and predict a hat and have an ice ball already coming at him, and that’s for minimal damage if you have to dash in half to full screen.
Even with a damage nerf for Kung Lao, the Kung - Sub matchup is pretty tough in my opinion. Sorry if this is a bit offtrack for your topic Salad 
I float your same boat Sun 
I was recently in a local tourney here in Vegas with me and Trophy Club, and I lost pretty badly in the Loser’s Finals to Jackie Tran, he’s a pretty decent Kung Lao, but I find the matchup in most cases intolerable due to the spacing it creates. Preferably after a couple of casuals with Tran I found that it’s about a jumping distance’s spacing, so you can just have enough to one jump projectiles into his face, w/o the consequence of the spin, but you can’t lose ground. Only using clones against dive kicks seemed to be the preferable use of them. The only time you want to jump at Lao is when you have that spacing and you see the projectile coming out. But… no matter what, the matchup still GREATLY benifits Lao players, and if you watch some of Brady-PerfectLegend you’ll see exactly what I am talking about, not even Brady was able to fully utilize the matchup. But then again, not all Lao players are PerfectLegend ;]
This is Salad, had to change my name, sorry i’m not longer using TheSaladToss as my alias for important reasons :<
Here is a decent video of good Sub-usage.
Especially observe the clone-usage in the 5:24-Match
[media=youtube]fjgki6rTPX8[/media]
Toughest match up… I would say Noob. I have trouble with fighting this one good Cyrax but I dunno if its the character or the player out playing me.
There’s no easy way with Noob. Part of what makes it hard is it’s just soooo boring 
What gives me the most success is dash blocking till about midrange, then trading ice blast with a clone. Once they catch on, expect them to do the following…
a) hesitate (what you want)
b) attempt a teleport
either way can lead to a free 30+ percent. Avoid jumping from midrange in unless you know they won’t/cant AA. That’s why the hesitation is so important.
the best way I found with Noob (Ironically playing a very good Noob today) is dash to jumping jump over charge or slide clone, then after jump immediately dash to 2,2 freeze, truthfully it’s a bitch of a matchup but if you just stay calm it’s easier than dirt.
sabin’s a decent sub, but when he plays he lacks some basic fundamentals, especially against a character like reptile
Staying calm is the big thing for me. I just give up when it’s boring… Just a personal issue lol
id appreciate advice im trying to improve
Dunno if you’ve seen this but I found it an interesting read:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3940-Sub-Zero-Guide-Feedback&p=59277&viewfull=1#post59277
I really liked your clone placement Sabin, but baiting reptile is simple as long as you stretch the clones. Another thing that really agitated me was that you were definitely not maximizing your damage with each clone, or each freeze in general, It’s easier said than done, but a few simple combos I found with Sub do more damage than a whole juggle, it’s depressing and sometimes I want to use the juggles to be a little flashy? Unfortunately, damage scaling with 0 has been horrendous, I found that after a freeze (If character is grounded) then a FJ 2,2,1,4 Slide will output as much damage as the NJ Ice Pick 2,1,2 Slide. The whole concept of less for more is completely moo, but still, i’m not gonna complain when my opp. can’t build up breaker faster 
Also, same damage output applies for a 2,2,1,4 XX Stalled as well, in fact, the FJ 2,2,1,4 X Stalled does more than NJ Ice Pick 2,2,1,4 X :<
You make that same stupid mistake I do, wanting to jump to punish when you clearly should just dash 
It happens to myself all the damn time ughh :D\
Also, even on a far freeze from full screen, a 2,1,4 is always the best route…ALWAYS :<
2nd Also: If you get into an awkward frozen at hip level situation in air, whiff the first part of the pick, or basically the B+1, then contact with the pick itself, it’ll still allow a 2,1,2 Slide after that. and anything above head level is a NJ to Ice Pick 2,1,2 Slide, but only in above head freeze is that even applicable