Mind Games

[Smoothjazz101]

I keep hearing about mind games. In Viscant’s ancient post regarding Third Strike parrying*, he talked about how mind games were not just guessing games.
Can anybody explain this, and does anybody have any examples of complex mind games? Preferably from the SF series or Marvel.

*Lets not discuss parrying here

[pherai]

I think the term is so generic and overused it doesn’t have much meaning anymore. To most people I think its just kind of a catchall term for anything beyond execution/punishing.

[Carbs2k]

Ok so let’s say i’ve dashed in and thrown you a couple of times… then later on in the match I use the same setup and dash ex legs instead. I will have conditioned you to think that I am going to do the same thing and you will attempt to tech the throw and get hit by the legs. “Mind Games” is very broad subject and can’t really be defined… This is just a small example. Things like ryu purposely wiffing an overhead to bait a punish then DP FADC ultraing your ass or same thing with a purposely wiffed throw.

[Hace]

google yomi

[roflcats]

I would say taunting is Semi-Mind Game…ish
My experience is that a lot of the time (online at least) taunts at certain times seems to mess up many players “game”.

[BlackShinobi]

SERIOUSLY?.. SERIOUSLY?
I rarely go off in this forum but WHAT!!?
Mind games are the heart of fighting game, if your above button masher status you have to have at least some understanding of the concept. It gets alot deeper the further you go into the game but even baiting a simple DP is a mindgame, mixups, training people to expect cartain reactions is all mind games. How deep it goes depend on what game you’re playing, which character you’re using, which character your oponent is using, How well you know each other, both players execution levels, general game knowledge of both players, etc.

Mind games are fighting games if your not using any you’re probably losing… ALOT.

[Smoothjazz101]

I was talking about this post, I understand the basis of mindgames (and use them all the time) but I was intrigued by this;

http://shoryuken.com/threads/99742-Parrying-Good-or-Bad?p=2653282&viewfull=1#post2653282

[Neber]

I’d be interested to know what sort of mindgame he’s referring to. To me all mindgames is reading your opponent’s playstyle, and observing how your playstyle affects theirs(you condition players not only by forced choices of throws at set times, but basically in your natural gameplay) and making the appropriate decisions. We all think about things in a different way though, so whilst some may glorify a certain type of mindgame, others will just take it for granted as they use it all the time.

[REASONS_I_HATE_MY]

funny how the replies in this thread exhibit exactly the kind of stupidity viscant was talking about

anyway he posts this a couple pages later

You want an example of different layers of mind games that other games have that 3s can’t because of the parry? All right. Let’s say we’re playing ST. Blanka vs. Vega (ironically, both of these characters couldn’t exist in 3s anyways), both characters have charged meter. Blanka has a small lead, about 10%. There are about 30 seconds left in the match. Let’s say in this situation, Blanka is walking forward and Vega reacts to that with jab roll. Blanka blocks and this pushes him about 3/4 screen from the corner. Vega does low jab xx KKK. If Blanka jumps forward or walks forward I do super and he’s about 80/20 going to eat it and most of the 20 he’s going to eat claw swipe. If he hops back, I do super to the far wall to break his charge and he’s about 85/15 to eat the super and again most of the 15 he’s going to eat claw swipe. If you do ball, I have a charge built up and will flip kick combo you. If he sits still, I can slide and push him back towards the corner in which case I’m going to corner guard him and he really has little shot at the match from this position since all my throw ticks are now in play and his reversal (blanka ball) becomes unsafe.
Now, I wrote this scenario carefully. There is a very critical mistake Blanka made in this scenario. Do you see what it was? What could he have done in this situation to avoid a very very bad position? Failing that and this played out the way it did anyways, what is your move?

This is an example of a multi-layered mind game. I did a move (jab roll) to set up a scenario many moves in advance taking into account all factors including position, time, health, meter to hopefully set up a scenario where I’d have a good chance to win the fight. Now in a situation with parry, none of this is available because Blanka could parry the low jab. If you know Vega’s character design, the only high move that could reach Blanka from that position after a claw roll is a low claw poke or stand fierce. You could “guess” low and react block to high (and even if your reactions are awful and you get hit, you’re still slightly leading). A multi-level game involving position is basically useless due to the parry (and this is presuming you didn’t parry the jab claw roll in the first place).

its pretty much about setting up advantageous positional situations from a sequence of actions in which the opponents initial ‘bad decision’ often seems pretty innocuous, but with each step in the sequence their viable escape options diminish more and more. you see this kind of thing all the time in ST (classic example being pushing someone into the corner, then fireball trapping them), less so in 3S (because of parry) and SF4 (because pressing the advantage like this isn’t rewarded outside of braindead vortexes - though it’s still a lot better off than 3s)

[Pshhh]

Blocking the jab roll was the mistake, njfk or njfp would have probably worked out A LOT better, although you might not be thinking that when there is a parry option.

But I don’t know I never played SF with that system although I have heard quite a bit of negatives. Whatever, not what the thread is about.

To the OP: Mind games are whatever you want them to be and can get away with, but as pherai said its not merely “beyond execution/punishing” its more than that.

[bp_amoco]

If you play mind games right you appear to be psychic. Alot of it is just figuring out the skill level and match up knowledge of who you are up against. So lets say the last 2 times i went for a cross up and they blocked then DPed. So the next time you go in for a cross up you cross up and wait for the DP and punish. Simple. You need to try and get in the head of who you are up against same shit applies in every competitive sport. Thats why in baseball and football they look at tape so they can try and predict the next move. So if you do A you can predict that they will do B. But if they figure out that you are looking for B they might switch it up to C. so you need to be able to figure out when they are going to switch it up to C. YOMI My mind games are on a low level. Viscant is on a diffent plane that guys beat me 20 times in a row online he is not someone to be fooled with once you play him you will know he can back his talk up.

[REASONS_I_HATE_MY]

Blocking the jab roll was the mistake, njfk or njfp would have probably worked out A LOT better, although you might not be thinking that when there is a parry option.

youre right that was a mistake but THE mistake was walking forward. which really shows how deep these things go

[syn13]

Sean Combs makes it very clear about the art of mind fucking repeatedly in the movie:
[media=youtube]s3aIkb0kbGE[/media]
50 seconds into the video.