If they used 3D, they probably wouldn’t be able to draw and animate it at home in whatever program they like and then outsource what they need to to people all over the globe using whatever program they like.
So yeah, for them, 2D was probably cheaper than 3D even if they were open to the idea of 3D.
No, any one that says other wise really hasn’t messed with them.
But, having no hurtbox any where near an attack boxes is more likely to be like mvc3 which SG is close to being like even Daisuke knew this when he worked on GG.\
Going to explain some of the hitbox methods
Marvel hitboxes set up is 8 boxes max and can be any type of box used in that 8. Which are Hurt, Push, Attack, Grab, Throw on the character sprite.
Most of the time push and grab are going to be selected so that leaves 6 boxes to use for your cells of animation. For Hurt boxes 3 are often to show case the body parts Torso, Head, and Feet an that leaves 3 open for anything else which you don’t have to use.
Red-Earth/Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure Hitboxes
These are simple as you can get push and throw as they are same thing. You have 2 attack boxes 3 hurt and a push box. What about grabs check Tsumaki. This way was eventually used in CvS games.
Arc System Works
The rules are pretty simple 6 boxes for everything except the push/grab. 6 Hurt, 6 Attack, 6 Projectile Attack, 6 Projectile Hurt.
Tsumaki
Throws are actually done less than frame as they’re a check done in less than a frame. Most games do use this method for throws in their game even Arc System Works.
Another thing is that all the tools used to edit the hitboxes worked on arcade sticks instead of a drag and drop with a mouse so it took more time. How is it that it’s too much time for a with a mouse for 8 characters when there is 2 or 3 people doing it by stick for a cast over 20 characters?
Edit: By marvel I mean the older marvel games.
Yup. This is what I’m talking about. 3D means doing all the hard work up front with easy tweaking. 2D means hard work all the time, ESPECIALLY when something needs to be changed later.
If you all like to debate about how money should be spent so much, how about getting involved with your local school district? You’re actually forced to give them money, yet you’ve never paid attention to how they’re spending it, have you?
The majority of your post was a strawman argument. At no point did I even attempt to argue which process was easier or more difficult. However it’s funny you used Street Fighter 4 as an example, but failed to acknowledge that each character cost approximately 1 million dollars to create. Obviously there are benefits to using 3d as opposed to 2d, but that still doesn’t address that it’s exponentially more expensive to produce.
I feel like you’re arguing the work and not the actual cost. I’m sure the cost of 3D (from the people to the hardware) is equally or more expensive. And I’m ignoring the fact that developers who used 3D have admitted they go through frame by frame to fine tune the animations.
The problem is that work and cost often go hand in hand. More work means more hours, which means more people on a team. More people on a team means more salaries, means more money. How hard something is to do is DIRECTLY RELATED to how much it’ll cost to get it done. No one wants a game to take 10 years to complete.
A game like Skullgirls would not require a silicon graphics workstation, so hardware costs are relatively low. In fact, someone modeled some skullgirls characters in 3D already. They were on the front page of SRK, and weren’t even super high poly. Sure they weren’t rigged, but the time you take rigging is a lot less than all the time required to tweak animations in 2D later.
SF4 characters required 1 million to create each. And yet this is the approach Capcom took. Why? Because even if it costs 1 million to make one character, it’s still cheaper than a full-time team of traditional animators, artists, and colorists. They weren’t about to hire on an entire team of trained artists like they had in the old days.
If hiring a 2D animation team and adopting a 2D workflow was cheaper in the long run, you’d bet your ass they’d have done that instead. But they didn’t, because 3D was cheaper and possible with fewer people. The cost of 1 million isn’t necessarily from their equipment, software, or anything related directly to doing something in 3D. It’s the TIME and AMOUNT OF PEOPLE REQUIRED.
SNK went 2D for nostalgia. The effort almost bankrupted them, as someone on here pointed out. Why? Because doing one character in 2d took MONTHS. Months of paying a team to do art and animation. All those people had to eat.
People at ArcSys have also pointed out that 3D would save them time and money, but they make the sacrifice because they like the way 2D looks.
For a fighter, going 2D definitely DOES cost more money - because TIME IS MONEY, and if you want to get anything done on time in 2D you need a shit ton of people. Have you ever seen the credits to Skullgirls? There are so few characters, and yet they have a massive list of cleanup artists and inbetweeners. They had to pay all these people. If they went to 3D, NONE of those people would have been necessary.
I’ve done animation in both 2D and 3D. Animation is ALWAYS time consuming. But for the purpose of a fighting game, 3D is DEFINITELY faster, and thus ultimately cheaper.
When did they say that? It’s like the same rumor of old Capcom working at Arcsys.
http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/index.php
Says 16 months for 1 character.
I think they went 3D because mainstream believes 3D is the best, so it was worth investing into to maximize sales and it’s easier to recycle and touch up than 2D when sticking them into other games.
He mentioned time it takes to make a character ~1:30.
It’s funny how you acknowledge that work and cost go hand to hand and that 3D is cheaper because it’s possible with fewer people yet it’s more expensive because of the TIME and AMOUNT OF PEOPLE REQUIRED. Contradict much?
The bankrupt part not the time.
I think what he’s getting are is if Capcom had gone the 2D route for the game each character might have cost 1.5 million instead of 1 million.
This. Along with the benefits 3D offers, Capcom also went this route because your average gamer associates 3D with “Next Gen” and 2D with “Old School”, regardless of how easier or difficult, cheaper or expensive the process was to making it. Hence it’s a much easier sell, since a person can visually tell the leap SF4 made from 3S. It’s the same reason Disney is no longer creating 2d traditionally animated movies.
Mainstream may think 3D looks better. But, I don’t think recycling is an issue honestly - Capcom did it for years just fine with sprites. Regardless, 2D would definitely have been more costly. Another quote from an interview with guys from ArcSys:
Full interview here: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132295/dodging_striking_winning_the_.php?print=1
He’d be wrong then.
We’d probably need someone who’s been in the industry for a long time to comment, but I wonder when the costs of 2d and 3D flip flopped. Or is it more an issue of public perception that fueled the switch?
What are you talking about? My whole point is that 3D IS CHEAPER.
3D = smaller team / more time in the long run = less cost
2D = bigger team / more time to tweak ANYTHING = more cost
Where is the contradiction?
And before we go into anything else, let’s remember we’re talking about a FIGHTING game. The COSTS of making a fighting game. Particularly SKULLGIRLS.
We’re not talking about Gears, Halo, or Wall-E. Shooters and motion pictures have entirely different requirements in terms of art assets.
To make a game like Skullgirls in 3D would have required a smaller team, and less freelance artists. It would have been cheaper than making the game the way it is now. This is my entire point.
BAM on the bolded.