MGTOW Chronicles:Men Going Their Own Way

General Discussion
923

Read what he said, its not just relationships, its society and its function with reapect to your role in society. Hes embraced nihilism past relationships if hes already said fuck society (and for whatever reason thats fine, thats on him). Peterson’s argument is based of nirtzche, in that, that with the unraveling of all of our social norms society will break down because nihilism will take over. All the things that keep people on the line between order and chaos are dsmantled and you get far extremes. On one side you have people who say burn it all i dont give a shit because it doesnt matter, and then on the other you have extreme hedonism because none of it matters anyway.

Nihilism on the individual level isnt bad (because thats something you can and should sort out), and that doeant preoccupy peterson regarding men opting out. What does preoccupy is the incidence and rate at which people collectively embrace nihilism and the effects it has on society, and hence why this isnt necceseraly a good thing.

And mind you, hes made the case that women need to sort their shit out and understand that all the things these groups have promised them are lies.

924

Yea and he’s one guy. He doesn’t speak for everyone and it’sdumb as fuck to think he does. Plent of MGTOW still contribute to socioty, they just don’t engage in relationships. They are going their own way, Doran have to be Starhammmers way, that’s the point.

925

???

Whose saying starhammer speaks for everybody? Had you watched petersons videos, ypud know that opting out of relationships amd refusing to have children is now an observable and quantifiable trend thats going to have a big impact. This is what were talking about, we are also talking about the underlying nihilism associated with going as far as to refuse your most basic and overriddding biological imperative. We arent talking about starhammer here, whle are atalking about the bigger implications and social impact from not sorting youraelf out by choosing nihilism.

927

It was way back in the day years ago, in some feminist thread of some sort where matriarch amongst many other people including specs were posting.

I “thought” I saw you on the side of feminism, but can’t remember for sure, hence the reason for the question. I’m not trying to call you out or anything, was mostly wondering if you had had some life changing occurrence or some such.

No big deal and I’m not pressing for information either way, it was asked in a conversatorial tone, not an accusing one. People are free to think what they want.

928

I believe in everyone getting equal rights and equal responsibilites under the law. Slap whatever label you want on it for all I care.

Can you link me to posts where I expressed similar opinions? I tend to avoid expressing my personal political views on the internet, and limit myself to explaining others’ misunderstood positions, regardless of my own opinions about these positions. Even in this thread most of my posts are mostly about showing how the shitty laws are responsible for the plummeting marriage rates among men.

How exactly are you going to “assert dominance” and “bring women back in line” with your superior intellect? lol…

Daily psychological warfare doesn’t sound very appealing to say the least… Pair bonding is supposed to be about intimacy and receprocal emotional support.

It’s not nihilism at all because they do work to improve their own lives, but do it for themselves and not to be better as “human-doings” for others. Voting with your feet is not only the safest solution but also the most effective one. Begging to change the terrible laws doesn’t work. Sacrificing yourself to change the terrible laws doesn’t work. There was this guy who set himself on fire in front of the courts after getting destroyed by the legal system. What did his death achieve? Nothing. No one cared and nothing changed. The only practical solution is to save your own ass and not get into bad situations in the first place.

929

Its not Nihilism tho, they dont say nothing matters, they say relationships don’t matter to them.

I disagree with Peterson. Mad respect for the guy but I don’t agree with him on this one.

930

…

It can’t actually be that hard to figure this out can it?

  1. Find a woman that you are smarter than either in form or function.
  2. Find a woman that will allow you to dominate her.
  3. If at all possible, find both 1 and 2, profit.
  4. Make babies and stuff.
  5. Leave the smart chicks for the smart guys, or allow the smart chicks to think their way out of the gene pool since most dudes don’t want smart chicks… we want intellectual equals on some levels, but not on others.

Me and my wife were perfectly happy as she allowed me to dominate her in most ways. We only really started having problems once she wanted independence… which she started wanting by talking to friends and family. She was perfectly happy being dominated on the sly by yours truly.

But domination sounds like a harsh word. A better word might be “lead”

It’s not hard to find a woman that will allow herself to be lead, it’s the quality of the woman that gets hard to get.

931

The problem with the whole idea of seeking out women who will “let you dominate them” is the very loose definition of “dominate” and the wide variety of shady things that can be done in the name of it.

For instance, Dime_x said that his wife was happy letting him dominate her until she started speaking to friends and family. Some other guy can take this to mean “don’t let your wife have friends and get her away from family”. Isolating people from friends and family is what cults and abusers in general do, so such a path is already on a rocky start. I mean, sure, you can go with the softer words “lead” if you like, but it seems like a euphemism.

Also, my experience in meeting MGTOWs is that so many of them exchange bitterness towards women who AREN’T the docile, virginous innocents who will allow themselves to be dominated. It’s one thing to “prefer” that type of woman. It’s another to whine and bemoan about modern women being “whores” and “sluts”.

932

I don’t really care what anyone would think was shady, domination or leading. I’ve never found myself to have a successful relationship where I’m the one being lead (and in my 39 years of age I’ve only been single for around 18 or so of those years) Female mumbo jumbo doesn’t work in the real world because women want strong men. They WANT men that can dominate or lead them, you just have to be smart enough and have enough personal power as a man. Now that isn’t ALL women of course. There are those women that either want weak men they can keep under their heel, or women that simply don’t like men much at all and prefer their cats… I stay away from both those sets of women, there are plenty more out there, don’t have to force something on them they don’t want… hell why would I want that?

But back when I was still dating if I came across a highly opinionated woman that wanted to argue about everything, if I liked them I’d turn them into a pivot if possible, and if not, I’d just ignore and walk on.

Even though I got turned down by a fair amount of chicks, I didn’t compromise my own personal standards just to get some play.

Also, I don’t judge women based on how many people they’ve slept with unless I think it’s way more than myself. I prefer the women I meet to have some experience. I would never call a woman a whore, as an example. I prefer sluts… cause I like sluts… super fun and most are decent in the sack.

My wife and my notch count were relatively the same, as an example of wanting to date someone around my level.

933

Even with the addition of a “not all” near the end there, that’s still a massive overgeneralization. Besides that, as I said, different men have different ideas of what “lead” and “dominate” means. I’m happy for you if what you do seems to work for you and you feel really confident in your “notch count” or whatever, but the idea that women as a monolithic entity prefer strong men is, if not wrong, in need of a lot of specificity.

As I said, some men think isolating women from friends and family is being dominant. Some men see nothing wrong with hitting a woman if she misbehaves. Some men want extremely young girls (like 20 or younger). Some men want virgins. Some men don’t like it when women actively want sex (even from them). Some men want to own women as property.

My issue is not decrying “domination” as being bad. My issue is that it’s a word that only has whatever meaning a person gives it.

934

Or maybe your wife is an adult with agency and the dynamics simply changed because of the marriage and/or children.

Johnnie Taylor warned you in 1973

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-w_IKGRFM

If you’re tied up, you’d better stay tied up
Cause it’s cheaper to keep her
This is from T, who says

It’s cheaper to keep her
It’s cheaper to keep her

When your little girl make you mad
And you get an attitude and pack your bags
Five little children that you’re leaving behind
Son, you’re gonna pay some alimony or do some time

That’s why it’s cheaper to keep her
Help me say it, y’all
It’s cheaper to keep her (it’s cheaper to keep her)
See, when you get through staring that judge in the face
You’re gonna wanna cuss the whole human race
That’s why it’s cheaper to keep her (it’s cheaper to keep her)

935

yes its fucking terrible, and rather than just mope about it, fight the fight. this doesn’t mean to be like those morons that just marry 4 differnt bitches because reasons. Peterson phrased it well in another video regarding how to combat the cancer that his nihilism. You know at least 10 people, these people know another 10 people, and so on. In just a few paces, you in theory have access to hundreds of millions of people. This is how things can go viral in today’s society, take advantage of it and keep at it.

but it extends past relationships that’s the crux of the argument. And I understand if you don’t agree with it, how does one sort one self in this fucking clusterfuck where ultimately one mistake will ruin it all. It’s really compl.icated

the word dime was looking for was being the leader. And that’s some loser level rationalition regarding how some outside observer would view tthe word dominate. Also, women being whores is a net negative.

you are assuming two things

the wife is a rational individual who thinks she knows what she wants

she can be rational, but rarely do the know what they really want. My mom wanted my dad to be a “mandilon”, my dad said no and asked her if she would still respect him on some level. She said no. Women dont’ know what they want and don’t understand the consequences of those wants until after. that being said, my dad was one of those lazy as shit men too, so its not like he was a model husband.

936

I don’t understand this mentality that someone shouldn’t be able to leave a marriage simply because they are unhappy. Unhappiness in relationships happens. Sure, it’s nice if both parties can work through them, but that doesn’t always happen. One party can always try to “do better” for a few weeks then screw up again, then promise not to mess up anymore, then mess up again a few weeks later.

I don’t get this belief that either partner, male or female, should need a different reason to quit a marriage other than “this shit isn’t working”.

Doesn’t matter what word you call it. It’s still a word with absolutely no value than what the person in question calls it. Does it mean the man earns all the money? That he doesn’t even know HOW to cook or clean for himself? Does it mean he should be allowed to sleep around if he wants, without telling her? What?

937

Take whatever word or phrase you like. It can be dominate or lead or having more personal power than the partner etc.

There is no connotation towards beating women the way I used the term. I mean I could say “let’s go get something to eat” and if I a cannibal overheard me they might think I meant people.

I’m not going to sit here and worry about irrational assumptions any more than I’m going to worry about getting hit by a bus while walking to work. That’s no way to live ones life.

As far as it being an over generalization, I really don’t know of many people in the states around the time I grew up, or in my age range where the woman wants a weak man with no ability to influence her. I personally would have been happy in my younger years letting a woman lead. But they never wanted to. Sure they SAID they did through their actions and attitude, but the second I let it look like I was letting them lead the interactions and exhibit more power than myself… they lose interest and go get with some dude that won’t allow that shit.

I have seen it the opposite, but it’s pretty rare. And anyways like I said, those women can just be ignored.

Also, I didn’t put a number to my “notch count” so there is no bragging there. It could be 2 women or it could be 200.

The number means nothing outside my relationship with my spouse.

Something I learned once I had game for getting your average club girl/single party chick… don’t listen to female dating advice. Not once did I ever get laid or have a nice relationship using girl dating advice.

The only advice I’ve ever gotten that has worked has come from men. And I’ve never met a man that I know can actually get women, say to me that it’s ok to be the weak one in the relationship.

Shit I WISH i could be the weak one and sit around and let my wife make all the decisions… but she gets pissed if she has to make the decisions.

She wants me to make decisions so she can sit there and say no to all of my suggestions. Then when I get fed up and say “we are going here then” she smiles and is happy, knowing she can now complain about the food or service or whatever and it will be my fault since I made the decision.

And you know what happens when she makes a decision on where to go and it sucks?

Then it’s my fault FOR LETTING HER MAKE THE DECISION. If only I had a dollar for everytime I’ve heard “well we probably should have just gone to that place you suggested, but you didn’t make a decision so now we have eat here”

LOL

That’s why I make the decisions.

(Most of the time unless I’m in the doghouse for something I didn’t do)

938

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XMf6ziztGg

What the fuck? :rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl:

-Starhammer-

939

Because being a man that leads the relationship, automatically implies she your doorstop.

Your confusing dominance with abuse. Just like females confice assertiveness and confidence with arrogance and douchebag bad boy behavior. Try again.

Ill reapond to tbe more important part when i get out of work.

940

Again, how you live your life is your own business. But, we’re talking about life philosophies in general, spread amongst a number of people. It doesn’t matter how you define “dominate” or “lead”. It matters how the term is meant in general discussion.

Making the general value judgment that women want to be, or should be “dominated”, affects more than your corner of life.

Well, I personally won’t be basing gender dynamics off of your personal, anecdotal, references. Again, whatever works for you is cool, but not only does it not match up with any of my experiences (or those of people I have dealt with in my experience in relationship/sexual therapy), but it also doesn’t seem very healthy from the outside looking in.

No, you’re missing the point. I am very familiar with the differences between dominance and abuse.

The problem, though, is that if a man tells me he wants or expects to be “dominant” in our relationship, my life depends on figuring out what he means because (as I keep saying) the word means nothing on its own. Does he expect me not to work? Does he expect me to not go out with friends? Does he expect me to ask him for permission on what to wear? Does he expect me to cook and clean? Do I get a say in how many kids we get? Does he expect me to not question his decisions AT ALL?

Prescribing the value that men are and/or should be dominant over women in a relationship requires greater specificity on what “dominant” means in that specific relationship. Especially since even your most hardcore advocate for mens’ rights will flat out say women need to be responsible and selective about what men they allow into their lives.

941

I’ve met a decent amount of women that don’t want to be lead/don’t listen to reason/are super argumentative.

Like when I meet men who are like that, I tend to just ignore those people.

I’m not teaching gender studies and anyone who says anything about “gender studies” as if woke or educated because of this curriculum tends to get ignored because most gender studies that I know of have a feminist background. I’m an antifeminist.

I’ve never met a feminist I’ve gotten along with.

I just laugh and let them have fun with their cats and/ or downtrodden men.

I don’t kick it with my wife’s friends downtrodden husbands and when my wife comes to me telling me about what those guys do for their wives my answer is “good for them, that’s not what I’m going to do though”

But these kinds of men I’ve only really been meeting for the last 5-6 years or so.

I feel sorry for them tbh.

So yes, it might not be your personal philosophy. Why does that matter to you? I’ve already said what my answer to that is.

You seem to be getting hung up on a definition.

Also, I have no idea why any dude would be like “I wanna dominate you” LOL.

It’s easy, just look for an agreeable woman. There is no verbal contract, that’s just weird.

And the last thing I’d do when seeking to lead a woman, would be saying something like “I want to dominate you”. My wife and I have never had that conversation.

The way I started to lead her goes thus:

After we slept together and went out a few times, one day she was getting all uppity and told me what I needed to do or something like that.

I responded that no I would not be doing that and if she had a problem with it then she or I could leave.

She responded by no longer being uppity and being all smiley and affectionate again. THATS when I made the choice that she was probably a keeper. No conversation, just real world human interaction.

No woman likes to be told they will be dominated.

It’s the old stick versus carrot.

Lead a horse to water by dangling a carrot in front of him. If you try and use a stick or pull on a leash you are liable to get kicked or at least a lot of resistance.

It’s the same way gold diggers don’t come out and say “I’m a gold digger, buy me shit please” (at least not the ones that are any good at it without being hot) most gold diggers that are smart just look for a guy that is willing to buy them shit or take care of them. They look for guys that OFFER these things.
I look for women that offer to let me lead/dominate through their habits and actions and conversational give and take.

My advice for men that are mgtow or downtrodden themselves, is to never be with a woman that won’t allow them to lead.

That’s the call to arms that I prescribe for men. Stop being desperate and taking the first woman that is semi nice to you and decently pretty at the expense of your manhood. Make the woman work for your respect and time because it is valuable. Don’t go your own way and leave society to collapse, just change your way of dating and change what you look for in a partner.

And that’s all that have to say on the subject. This is pretty off topic as it is.

942

Because your philosophy basically involves an assessment of all women unless you’ve determined they can be ignored. Your philosophy is also, apparently, your world view which you shared in this topic.

Since it indirectly assesses me (I’m either in one camp of woman or the other), I have some disagreements with it. Just as you don’t care that I disagree with you, I don’t care if you disagree with me. It’s just a conversation.

Did I say they use those exact words?

Eventually, like you, they make it clear that they expect to be “in charge”, or “in control”, or “the alpha” or whatever they want to call it.

The lack of a verbal contract is exactly my problem, though. For my own safety, I want to know what type of “dominance”, “leadership” and “control” a man is talking about before we even date, let alone even entertain the idea of sex.

And if he breaks his word, I will hold him accountable.

And, since I’m bisexual, the same actually goes for a woman.

943

This chick is on some whole nother level.

RUN and don’t look back.