I’ve posted about this (and other games) in the Evo board. I’m not much into the SNK community, but like me with Melty Blood, I’d like to see it expand, because they’re great games(?) and need exposure.
You know, I’m watching this thread, as I thought it might give me an indication as to what game I should pick up. I’ve been considering picking up a SNK game to play at Final Round, however, I don’t have time to pick up more than one. This thread is not really indicative of where you should focus your efforts in that case, though. Does the SNK scene actually have a game that would be worth my time to play seriously, that has a scene comparable to Arcana Hearts, Super Turbo, or even Melty Blood?
Seriously, what is the main fighting game that has the best scene, the best turnout, and the best competition among the series you play?
Play Garou, you won’t be sorry:tup:
Check out the Howard Arena vids on yt if you don’t believe me.
Great post Josh! :tup:
i’d like to comment on the whole '98 UM boss situation; they’re designing the characters to be playable and different from other characters… There’s no reason why we should ban them outright before testing the game.
I mean, nightmare geese can throw double shippuken, but it moves him backwards, surely it won’t be overpowered. Have a little faith people jeez.
As far as a tourney line up for SNK games, here’s my list:
KOF XI
NGBC
WHP
KOF 98 (what with UM coming up)
SSVSP/SST
and then either Real Bout 2, Garou, or Breaker’s Revenge.
NGBC has to be in the master list of games.
Yamazaki’s reflect, due to the arc he swings his arm, should be good against any potential Double Shippuken
Just because everyone disagrees on what games are worth playing, doesn’t mean you should run EVERY game that someone might possibly want. There’s an easy means to dispell whining about what games you decide to run tournaments for; the words “Run your own fucking tournament.” You shouldn’t be forced to dilute your focus because some selfish jerk who wants everything done for him is aghast with the proposition that Evo '08 won’t be his chance to finally prove he’s the best Galaxy Fight player in the western hemisphere.
Now, is it true that some great games have been passed by, never getting the chance they deserved? Yeah, but when there’s so many great games around that at least some people DO play that desperately need more promotion, why waste time, energy and focus worrying about the games that almost nobody plays? You’ve got to work with something that’s giving you a little something to work with here. Don’t waste your time worrying about Waku Waku 7 when , for example, KOF98 is still nowhere near the popularity it could be given the right promotion.
Secondly, I see people trying to put together a list of 5, 6, even 8 games? THAT IS STILL WAY TOO MANY GAMES! You’re diluting your focus, people who like SNK games are going to enter like a couple tournaments for the games they most like, but seeing as nobody can agree on what games are the best, you’re looking at small turnouts for every tourney. This is one reason why people having less of a choice is a good thing, not a bad thing. If, out of all the KOFs, you only run, say, KOF98, then yeah, some people are gonna say “If I can’t play KOF97 I’m taking my toys and going home, so there”, but most KOF players will suck it up, and deal with the fact that if they want any KOF scene in the USA at all, it’s accepted that the game to play is KOF98, not 2002, Neowave, MI2, EX2 for the GBA, or whatever. The actual games in this example are irrelevant, it’s the approach that counts.
I’d say pare your lineup down to 3 games maximum, and even that seems like too many to me; 1 or 2 would be better. Look at how well the Melty, Arcana and especially the GG players have managed to do for their games because they only focus on one game. When people think about picking up a game, they want to see that it has a lively, vibrant and dedicated scene. If anyone even considers picking up an SNK game, they see dozens of small scenes with everyone arguing about which games are the best. Their reaction is likely to be “fuck it”. The only way to help the SNK scene at this point is to say “these are the games we think matter the most, these are the games we’re going to play, if you don’t like it, run your own tournament.” Too much freedom of choice is what’s hurting your scene’s growth the most.
im sorry that my man can’t play arcana heart because his manliness gets in the way for good gameplay… always happens…
anyways… DG relate some of that waku waku shit sir…!!! i want to see this shit…
and my list of games. for tourney worthy
is NGBC … i mean come on the population for that game is just to strong ( and im one of them)
KOFXI… and to the bitches that would ban oswald inf… i mean he’s a tier rite? i still have gato and kula to worry about so damn…i would rather not have to deal with gato and kula all day…
snk games i wish that had some sort of scene-
KOFMIRA- not saying it dosen’t have one… i just feel that it’s too spread out for everyone… like i know 3 here in Delaware ( where’s that?) that take it seriously… and then i know a few heads in chi-town… maybe in NC… a little in MD… it’s truly upsetting to me… ireally like this game…
im still learning about WHP, Last BLADE ( OH I WOULD SO GET INTO THAT), SS, RB and all so don’t flame too much k? 
agreed with polarity
i mean you can little side tourneys and stuff like that… but you need to have like the main titles that you want to support that the majority ( cuse not everyone will agree)
Arcana and melty and guilty gear have been good because of the fact they have loyal fanbase that will stick to one game… like you don’t see muthafuckas going " let’s play melty blood react"… NO stick to the current one… although SNK has a bunch a games out… im sure you can bump that list of 8 down to two or three that everyone will take seriously… ( like i would love to have a serious LB and Garou scene… but i know that won’t happen… so ill play NGBC instead )
Good things to consider but you also gotta keep in mind the problem that lies is that diferent areas play different games.
Take for example if I go to EVO West with the list of NGBC, Garou, and another game…
At EVO West NGBC will not be huge…but at North Carolina it’ll be a smashing success.
This is why I have to tweak the system in regards to where I am depending.
But so far some excellent posts etc.
I understand your point, but you picked a bad example.
Mizuchi’s infinite is technically only a semi-infinite because it requires meter. Plus comparing the two infinites is a fallacy because they’re in completely different games with completely game engines.
My point being that you have to consider each infinite as a seperate entity before you can judge whether it needs to be banned.
Okay case in point. Two different characters, games, and engines.
Oswald’s unblockable is only banned is ONE certain situation, after a down. The unblockable is essentially comparable to Guard Breaks in Marvel which ARE allowed in that game
However, consider in Marvel: every character has access to Guard Breaks. Whereas in KOF XI only Oswald does in a situation after a down, which can absolutely kill the oncoming character. K’s and Adel’s cross-up supers aren’t comparable because (A) They cost meter (B) They do fixed damage with no options for follow-ups © They’re not truly unblockable.
What makes the situation worse is that Oswald is a fucking crazy character, and depending on his stocks and meter can turn that unblockable into a combo that does 100% stun and potentially up to 100% damage.
A little known fact about KOF XI is that Oswald’s df+A isn’t the only move that has the glitched unblockable property. The reason you don’t hear about the others is because they’re not even that dangerous. Certainly not to the potential of Oswald’s.
I mean, say for example Momoko’s crouching C was also a glitched unblockable (it’s actually not). It wouldn’t need to be banned because the very worst she could possibly do is…what? Her crap-ass Deadly Rave super? Her one BnB that actually does decent damage but can be Saving Shifted?
Agreed.
I wouldn’t say that entirely.
For example, we made our own decision to ban the NGBC characters in KOF XI. In fact, that very decision was made SOLELY by a poll on this very forum.
We made that decision based on the fact solely because the characters aren’t in the arcade version, despite the fact that maybe 10% of the people who play tournament KOF XI in America actually have access to the arcade version. I’ve personally never even SEEN one.
Asian countries have mostly allowed the NGBC characters in console KOF XI tourneys.
I still concur your argument…we Americans ought to make our OWN decisions about how we want to play. However, just because in some situations we agree with the Asians doesn’t mean we aren’t independent thinkers.
Japan plays for honor (and for free). USA plays for money. Money changes standards.
There are about 4-5 staple Capcom games in America right now.
3S, Marvel, CvS2, and ST. You can occasionally make a case for an Alpha game. These days, most serious Capcom players are less inclined to play multiple games.
Capcom hasn’t made a new fighter since 2001 (unless you count CFJ or Kenichi…but who the fuck does???).
SNK is an entirely different company which has made some of its very best games in the past 4 years. Much of the SNK fanbase plays games of various series.
Why shouldn’t SNK have 4-5 staple games?
That’s an entirely unsupported blanket statement.
Playmore’s stance toward playable bosses is entirely different from the old-school SNK.
Old SNK bosses were just meant to cheap and fun without being played seriously.
The Atomiswave (Neowave, XI, NGBC, and Tenka) SNK bosses were specifically MEANT to be toned-down and playable.
- The playable versions of the bosses are* entirely *different and nerfed from the CPU-controlled versions
- They are unlockable and playable in the arcade versions
- None of them are actually top-tier except Amakusa in Tenka and Young Geese in Neowave, but they aren’t even the best characters in those games and are entirely beatable.
Plenty of people enjoy 3rd Strike. But you’re digressing from the topic.
agreed.
SNK sucks like smash.
So let’s just live with it, and move on.
I’m curious to know why you think KOFXI and NGBC aren’t tournament worthy.
I certainly hope your reasons aren’t “I don’t like them” or “KGO is broken”.
Define “everyone else”. I don’t think you mean that SNK “heads” are trolling topics of other fighting games, because I’ve never seen that happen here, ever.
On the flip side, a bunch of SNK haters have trolled SNK topics repeatedly here without ever recieving any kind of punishment from the mods.
I’m not going to dig up old beefs or give names, but those people know who they are.
The problem is that SNKPlaymore can’t ever make a WW7 sequel because it’s not their game. It’s Sunsoft’s, and they’re too near bankruptcy to make anything besides pachinko games and Tengai Makyou RPGs now.
The only kind of input SNK had was them getting Sunsoft’s permission so that they can re-release Galaxy Fight and Waku Waku 7 in their Sunsoft collection this year.
Isn’t Neowave basically just 2002 Rebout anyways? Plus it actually has an excellent console port…
Hey Josh, it really depends on the infinite. I think ones that are extremely easy to set up are a big issue, like Bao’s dfD in kof 2001, it really depends on how easy some are. Akari’s is notoriously easy, just like Bob’s in RB2. They’d ban it because since its so easy to do, it leads to really ugly play. Infinites despite being weak and pathetic, are just part of the fucked up shit, I mean how many chars have 100% combos anyone can learn with practice?
I am one of these players and I’ll abuse anything I can, because the community of players I play does the same, it demands that I learn this bullshit. It’d be dumb to abandon some busted shit if everyone is gonna use it. At least there is some variation. Its like back in 2000 when everyone found out about that fucked up armor lin drama, everyone jumped on that wagon at my local arcade and I learned it to.
The problem with american SNK is that there just aren’t enough players as compared to other areas, we got a lack of arcades, and in places like china and mexico, there is just more interest. They also collectively for the most part share in the same languages, and many of the American players that count competitively are foreigners to begin with, and you can’t really discuss strategy or get help from them cause of the language barrier. The melting pot that is the US can harm the scene because we can’t all communicate with each other.
What would really help the American scene is us educating ourselves in other languages so we have the option of talking to these players, everyone seems pretty nice over all, but the language barrier is definitely a real problem, and KOF has so many varieties of play, you need to pay really good attention, and just play the shit for years.
I think its not really in the right mind set to say ‘asian worship’, the China/Korea/Japan players have the best display we have to study, so if we respect them as players, its well deserved. Those countries have really amazing drive to be good, and another key ingredient, confidence… Many American players tend to pick up a game, and learn it a bit and put it down. This is something I’ve struggled with that pisses me off to no end, I’ll pick up a certain game, I’ll get good in it and study styles of play and figure out weaknesses to a archetype, I’ll adapt to my friends games and I’ll crush methods, then it leads to my friends just quitting said game or not wanting to play me. I really have the drive to get good at games I pick up. As soon as someone gets good in my crowd, its like everyone stops giving a shit, and I don’t understand this. Lack of drive.
Japan/Korea/China have confidence, the interest and the drive. The American scene isn’t booming enough to approach their level of play and we all know it. To be honest, I think we’re lucky to get these games at all, and I commend SNK for giving a shit.
A lot of those top level players study like motherfuckers. Really godly KOF players are what I like to call ‘option eliminators’, if you’ve played a true Kyo or Billy, you know exactly what this means.
Many americans are all about ego cause they beat someone really good a few times without consistently doing it, its more of a conquest for a lot of our players, as opposed to acheiving something really rewarding and learning to adapt to a fresh opponent really fast. A lot of stupid ego’s, childish bullshit and most of all arrogance where it doesn’t count, then these guys play the chinese immagrants who step into our arcades, get worked with basic mind games. Do you see the issue here? We need to open our options up and learn from these dudes.
Being like those foreign players is a damn near requirement, I have no idea why it’d be a losing route. These guys teach perfectly safe options with the characters they use, and if you lift some of those ideas and put them in your game, you level up wayyyy faster.
Wait, the community decided to ban the console characters not because of japan’s arcade standard?
that’s utterly retarded… oh yeah like those 10 people who play XI on arcade will really be at a disadvantage in tournaments.
Personally, I voted against it because of EX Kyo. However, I do understand the reasoning. You have to create a standard for play and most often, the default standard is as close to the arcade (original) version as possible.
Keep in mind that most Asian countries actually have arcades and so they don’t even have to worry about that in the first place. If they have a few console tournies and allow everyone, big whoop. They aren’t taking that shit all that seriously to begin with and they still have their arcades to fall back on.
Whats the point of getting as close to the arcade version as possible if it is inferior to console version? As far as i know KoF XI console version doesn`t have any broken additions, or does it?
Who asked you? Random troll go back in your hole where you came from…
Shiki- About NeoWave trust me I see eye to eye with you there…but I know people are gonna bitch about 2k2> NeoWave so whatever floats their fancy… :rolleyes: 
LWK- This is why you travel… you see more travelling and far better opponents than staying in your own circle (The US)
This is why I am moving/getting a house in Mexico also… I know the real deal…I hope others see the light too…
lol EX Kyo.