But once again is everyone ready to make that commitment to go to an SNK only event if I have one? I’m getting the vibe that NO they are not ready overall…
I’m not talking to anyone in particular.
As for you though, I don’t know exactly how good you are at any of these games. I know it’s easy to think you’re better than you really are since the level of competition is so low.
That aside though, the community would be better off if there was less to focus on. The community isn’t large enough to be segmented.
True…but thats why we are narrowing the stuff down…
Of course its easier said then done…but I dont think less games has everything to do with it…
I mean damn look at other countries that play all the KOFs etc…they play everyone at a high level…look at Japan that plays SNK games and a lot of them very well…
So its less to do with the fact that we need less games and more to do with the fact that theres too many fanboys in the US and SNK was never taken seriously in America.
People that say “Well look if the game hasnt developed by now then you wonder why!” I’m telling you why…SNK was never big in America and is nowhere close to AS WELL ACCEPTED as in other countries and I speak from personal experience now…
We are on the beginning stages…its like When Street Fighter II first hit all over again and tournaments were just starting to be held…
So you cant speak on behalf of that because we are talking about apples and oranges here…Capcom has been big in the states period…SNK HAS NOT.
But you have to look at WHY nobody takes SNK seriously.
It’s not just coincidence or “fanboy-ism”.
I beg to differ…The US is like one of the only few countries in the world that does not embrace SNK…
You forget its all about who conquered who FIRST…
Capcom conquered America thus more here play Capcom. I mean explain to me why Mexico doesnt play 3s or ST or the other games seriously? Explain that logic to me why is KOF like 500,000x more popular than any Capcom game in Mexico and other Latin American countries???
Yes some have access to it as well but KOF has grown on them while Street Fighter notso much.
Sure there are some that play Guilty Gear and MVC2 etc but the US is a lot stronger I would bet due to the fact that our scene is stronger.
So the only reason Mexicos Capcom scene is weak is because they dont take Capcom NEARLY as seriously…SNK/King of Fighters conquered Mexico first…
Man I got to like page 3, and was like fuck this shyt…LOL!
But Josh is a well rounded player who plays almost everything…seriously. I respect his opinion 99%!!!
The only thing I have to say is:
Anything that would allow u to be combo-ed from 0 to death and inescapable is fucking stupid and should be banned.
BTW everyone come to Gamma Bowl…OMFG so many games will be played. So much variety!:tup:
If you’re trying to build a competitive scene, there’s 2 groups of people you’re trying to draw: snk fanboys, and players of other games. As far as fanboys go, there’s only a small percentage of them might make the leap to serious competition. If they were likely to do so, they probably would have done so already. Drawing players from other games is where the shotgun effect is going to fail you, and they’re the ones most likely to get involved in the first place, if they believe a game is deep and interesting enough to be played at a high level, and that competition will exist to make it worthwhile.
You say “SNK was never big in America”. but why is that? You’re just saying it wasn’t, without explaining why. Why do other countries accept them and the US doesn’t? I think the reason is that most of the games aren’t worthwhile competitively, whether due to a lack of depth, balance, interesting gameplay, whatever. With relatively rare exception, US players will gravitate towards good games - Vampire Savior is the biggest exception I can think of. It’s possible that some snk games are worthy of being played and simply have a bad rep due to association with lots of games that are mediocre. But I highly doubt that 5-9 different games are all great games simply lacking players.
It’s the best idea yet. I mean, Dark Geese is doing what he can to promote, but Havoc does have it down to the wire. Focus on 2 or 3 games, then have people go on from there. While Capcom did claim America first, it didn’t dump a billion games on us all at once and we had to nitpick at a set of games just to see which ones we were gonna play for the next billion years.
But then again, SNK and it’s followers stateside are to blame as well. When did you guys REALLY start loving these games? Was the love there UPON release or did you start loving SNK in the new millenium? SFII got big because people loved it in it’s inception and went from there. Like, you can’t blame the people for picking one over the other. If you have a dude coming up to you and telling you, “Hey man! You wanna join in on this SFII tourney? We have about 50 dudes wanting to play.” Do you go play SFII or do you go over to the KOF machine with 2 or 3 guys playing and not making any buzz about the game?
At the end of the day, it all comes down to which crowd gets the buzz going. How do you think we got Arcana Heart going?
But Arcana had loli’s which is an auto-win.:bluu:
SNK got a bad rep in the US sure but there are still worthy games that people overlook in regards to SNK…like the ones we are talking about…
When as I say other countries play all these games…
Why dont you think Mexico has a hardcore 3s/CVS2/ST scene??? Answer that for me… If its such a quality game then why doesnt Mexico play it??
Also you cant put American gamers on a pedestal and say they “only play the most quality games”
Thats highly debatable…I mean geez…MVC2 is broken as fuck…so you wanna call that a quality game? As I say beauty is in the eye of the beholder…
And I dont like dissing games either (I think MVC2 is a fun game!) but to say one countries POV is better than anothers is just elitist…
Thats another issue I have…many of these people may not have been around and loved them as long as I have…and its refreshing to see that also when I run into people that have been playing these games since their inception.
I totally agree with you though… Hence I say mostly fanboys of SNK and not serious gamers…
I am a diehard SNK player…since the beginning…been playing Sam Sho I, Fatal Fury 1 in the arcades while everyone was playing Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat…
People should remember that the SRK scene started around ONE game.
Dude, your scene is a fucking miracle.
Pulling 40 people for your first major just a few months after the console release of the game is absurd, especially when every tournament held at an arcade before it only broke into double digits once for number of entrants. Even given Arturo fluttering around for a year promoting, that type of thing is STANDARD for a scene, but to pull that shit in under a years time? God is a fucking pedophile.
I digress, I won’t ruin the thread with talk about it.
I think Garou, 98, WHP (this game is alooooooot better and more enjoyable then you people think it isn’t), and Samurai Showdown or otherwise are great choices to go with.
And honestly, to hell with the newest KoF. A new one comes out every fucking year, who gives a shit anymore. 98 has strong staying power, Kof XI does not. Neither does NGBC.
I am not sure that people are ready too, that’s the thing. We’ve discussed this before in the past, but the SNK diehards that DO play, and have eebn playing for years (like the FOBS in NYC) have massive skills and play everyday, but even they are not interested in tournaments, and they have been playing for years. Never organized or set anything up. So yeah, that’s definetely a problem too if the fobs cant get organized or dont even care. As you know, the language barrier is a bitch too.
I understand this thread is not direted for them necessarily, but rather the english speaking population, though. Still, it’s a problem.
XI will stay til they make a better 1.
I remember back when 2k3 came out, and every1 was still playing 2k2.
Obviously ppl didn’t like it, so they dropped it.
Sure, 1 comes out every year, doesn’t mean you have to switch.
Maybe XII will be a dud, doesn’t mean XI will be forgotten by a game that is worse.
The “latest series is always better” thing happens to work for Capcom titles, because they take their sweet time and try to come up w/ something that is nothing but an improvement from the previous installment.
SNK chooses to give us something every year; which basicly means they’re not sitting there thinking of how to make the game better.
New game mechanics are cool and all, but sometimes you can take it too far and make the game confusing. (You can’t have a SF game w/ GG like game mechanics, it won’t blend right)
Which reminds me, NGBC chars should be allowed, they’re not broken in any fashion.
The best way to organize the FOBs is to have it in their hometown. Throw it in NYC. Then again, I’ve always wanted to make a roadtrip up there. If they won’t run it there, no hope and let them go. The US scene will become better with competition and surpass them eventually anyways.
As for KOFXI, it deserves a spot until KOFXII comes out. If KOFXII sucks then go back to XI as the new KOF. XI’s spot is not as permanent as 98, nor should it be, since it’s a SLIGHTLY inferior game (most KOFs suck, 98 and XI are the exceptions)
However, a scene- any franchise, cannot live in the past forever.
I think I have to clarify on that one Lukas. Its not like SNK wasnt popular in America in years past, it was popular manyyyy years ago. When arcades were popular and still mainstream in years past, there were people playing SNK, not just hispanics and Asians that are playing now in North America. I know in NYC, there were tons of people playing Fatal Fury, SamSho and the OG KOF’s back in the day, etc etc. Kaneda can probably vouch for that since he is the same age as me and lived in NYC as well. Hell, a lot of these games DID get mainstream magazine coverage (for those who remember OG GamePro, EGM, etc etc, a lot of thsee games DID get mainstream coverage with front page reviews etc. So there was definetely a time when people were hyped, even if SF was more popular at the time.)
The difference between Capcom and SNK back in the day in the USA?? Well, a lot of diehard Capcom fans were geeky college students and took their love of SF to the internet, before the internet was mainstream - it was called alt.games.sf2, and it was used to discuss their love for SF and organize tournaments, etc etc. A lot of this stuff was before the Web was even around and before the internet was even mainstream. Ironically, it were some of those same “geeky” college kids from agsf2 that helped create this site (the Cannons, etc) and kept this shit alive and you have what you have today. :lovin: Majority of them are hitting close to their 30’s now.
So yeah, just some food for thought, it’s like the SNK scene is a whopping 15 years late in getting the scene organized in the USA, etc
I used to play all the SNK games - SS 1 & 2, KOF 94-96, hell I even played AOF 1 & 2. (God did those suck)
The difference is that Capcom games became a competitive scene and the SNK scene turned into arguing about whether Kyo or Iori had cooler clothes.
This is a good time because right now Capcom is not releasing many games. Neither ST:HD or SF4 will be out for a while. So pick a few games, set up a website or a sub-forum or something and get to it.
These sorts of discussions come up periodically an the end result is always the same. If you put in the effort it might go places, otherwise it won’t. GG players don’t put in the effort and they are on life support.
You’re totally wrong on this assumption.
In my opinion you’re giving too much credit to the taste of the average American.
American tastes are unlike any other country’s in the world. Quality has nothing to do with it.
FIGHTERS AMERICA PLAYED THAT NO ONE ELSE DID
Mortal Kombat
Killer Instinct
Primal Rage
Dead or Alive 3 and up
MvC1
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects
FIGHTERS EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD PLAYED EXCEPT AMERICA
KOF anything
Samurai Shodown 3 and up
Garou: Mark of the Wolves
Last Blade (2)
Vampire Savior
Virtua Fighter 3, 4:Evo and 5
You look at those lists and tell me which looks better.
I didn’t play SNK growing up mainly because every arcade and every player I encountered were total Capcom fanboys. SNK simply had no exposure anywhere near me. In my arcade, there was a busted-looking little Neo-Geo cab shoved into a dark corner while everyone else was crowded around the giant, noisy, flashy Capcom cabinets with Alpha 2, Alpha 3, and the newest Marvel/Capcom game. Even Rival Schools and Tech Romancer got tons more play than that Neo-Geo, as far as I could see. The only thing I remember anybody playing with it was KOF 2000, Metal Slug, or Samurai Shodown 4. I recall trying SS4 quite a few times and not knowing what the hell I was doing.
Capcom games were all I knew about the fighting game genre until the Dreamcast era and when I actually saw discussions about non-Capcom games on the internet.
I honestly don’t understand these SNK fans shitting all over NGBC in this topic.
If anything, that should be the ONE game all SNK fans unite over. It represents every major series, and has characters which mostly represent the playstyles of everyone.
It’s the one game where a WH expert like Rashreflection can play a SS expert like arstal on equal and common ground. Where a KOF fan can play a Last Blade fan.
One interesting story:
Saturday night during Final Round X in me and DG’s room I met ace_uno, who is an excellent Garou player. At around 5AM or some other insane hour, everyone else but me was asleep (I didn’t sleep at all for those 3 days except for a 3-hour nap on Monday morning) and he was trying out NGBC in our room after we had played each other in Garou for about 2 straight hours.
I asked him if he was entering NGBC tourney (which was that morning in a few hours) and he said he had registered but wasn’t sure if he would want to stay in. I sat down with him about a hour, convinced I could get him to like the game. Basically, I said that being an experienced Garou player, he would be able to use Hotaru and Rock well right off the bat. Sure enough, within that time he began to play me pretty much like we were still playing Garou. Besides the lack of Just Defend, he was able to apply nearly everything from his Garou game to NGBC.
He did end up staying in the tournament, by the way.
This little bit is way off base. I certainly understand where you could get that impression, given the game’s shaky standing with Evo, but the US is as close to Japan level in that game as it is in 3s (which is impressive given the frequent upgrades and how much more difficult it is to learn). The East Coast and Midwest communities are especially dedicated, to the point where the game had a higher turnout at NEC than even 3s. The scene is nowhere near on life support, and I have no doubt in my mind that if the game is dropped from Evo, they would organize a national tournament of their own.
Next post: Back to the actual topic!