Thanks man! I can see some of what you might disagree with. I just hope people stay skeptical of organizations like CGS and try to mimic the Korean Starcraft model like you mentioned if professional SF became a possibility.
I see nothing wrong with good players getting money.
Justin, they posted the full coverage of your interview on the CGS Podcast
Pretty good interview. That guy seemed well informed on the fighting game community and the games we play. Good shit.
keep all the doa players in if they switch to street fighter iv so they can all get knocked out first round and make the cgs fans cry
gj on keeping in real mr. justin wong
Another reason we play SF is because capcom claimed a big pot when SF2 revitalized the arcade scene, and went on to improve their game and spread their influence to other media outlets, engaging everyone in their product and dominating the scene for many years.
A part of what makes competitive gaming fun is that it’s not in a vacuum, the economy is part of the scene.
You can certainly preserve the quality of the competition in the process, but we really can’t be afraid of going after the money. If the people that care about the integrity of the game are scared of money, then guess who’s going to get it first? It’s not going to just sit there and collect dust.
Take sports for example, you have a pro league like the nfl, most casual fans still only know the big names, but hardcore fans not only know the entire roster, they know the college players, and probably the top couple high school players. As there’s more interest in a scene, there’s also more interest in the up and coming players.
Big pots also help to spread the wealth to those mid tier players, who right now attend tournaments at a loss. In SF we sometimes pay top 3 of 200 (1.5%), which isn’t as exciting to mid tier players. Contrast this with poker, a lot of tournaments pay top 10%, and everyone thinks they are in top 10% so everyone plays, not only do they play, they pay higher entry fees, which just means more money to the mid and top tier players.
I’m certainly not endorsing anyone’s league or saying that they are doing everything right, but saying that the question should be: how do we improve on their model?
I was actually impressed with the interviewer’s questions. He asked straightforward fighting game questions without any bullshit like “durr can you do a 100 hit combo?” It seemed pretty knowledgeable and professional, which is amazing considering its the CGS. They are corrupt, have lame organizers, and have terrible team/play structures and gametypes, but they do push fighting games.
Good shit Justin.
That discussion page makes me sad. I can’t believe people actually support the idea of keeping DoA around for another year. What a bunch of retards.
that dude is a legendary Quake/DM caster. you don’t get any more hardcore than this.
Screw USC, go Cal!!
Good stuff, mang.
Edit: Hey, a shoutout to Denjin Arcade! Sick.
doesnt this artificially stagnate the game?
not unlike when scrubs put a nix on throws
screw you, screw me, its all about SF; let it blossom
and the way i see it, money is correlated to recognition
the more recognition the scene receives the better for everyone
trickle-down economics at work son
hahaa
no?
I agree with you on this. More importantly, its not what you’ve won but what you do with your win. “Context + Champion = Evolution” :tup: to Seth
Hey, don’t mean to be nosy (well, maybe a little) but I was intrigues when the interviewer asked what Justin does aside from win at fighters. He said “I help Empire Arcadia out and I go to work”. I was just wondering what work that is, cos in the last few months J was over here in London, then the West Coast, then Japan, and now back on the West Coast… what profession allows you to do that?
Just curious.
Great interview Justin.
I completely agree with FMJ, and have a more succinct way of stating this:
Every scene “sells out” eventually, so in the long run wouldn’t we be best off if knowledgeable people like the Cannons did the selling out?
I also have a few other thoughts:
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Big money didn’t kill growth of new talent in poker. Actually, it helped to drastically increase it. The major factor, along with the money, was online play; in fact, most of the best poker players in the world are not the tournament pros you see on TV but online cash-game players. We’ve already seen this to a small extent in fighting games with GGPO & 2DF, but technology will likely need to improve if online is to have the same effect here.
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Increasing numbers should be the primary goal of the scene, as that is the best way to advance the level of play and gain recognition. This is a general principle of human endeavor; the countries with the largest populations made the most scientific innovations, and so on. Right now there is not much incentive to play since there is little money, and humans often operate off of incentives.
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What recognition do mid-tier players receive now? A few shoutouts in their local tourney threads, basically. I don’t see how you make it worse than that.
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I actually understand a lot of what the CGS is saying about game choices. Evo has increasingly aimed to make fighting games a spectator sport, so it should be no surprise that gaming leagues would do so to a greater extent. And VF5/SC4/SF4 are not ideal spectator games. The problem is that most of the best candidates from this perspective are 2D sprite games with zero mainstream juice; Tekken 6 would actually work, but release date may be an issue.
I do wonder, however, if you could make people enjoy games based on active spacing & some offense. You’ll never get “TIGER! TIGER!” over with the crowd (even a lot of serious players can’t stand that), but I think they could learn to appreciate baiting whiffs and such.
I disagree. There is a way to sell in and keep things the way they are while evolving a scene. It just depends on who you use as the avatar to make it happen. It usually sells out because “INDIVIDUALS” see an opportunity and do not feel responsible nor obligated to bring weight with them. The scene usually sells out and in the case of this particular situation involving CGS and Fighting…you guys have nothing to worry about. Its not what it seems. There’s a twist to this.
This will do more good than bad in the long run. I mean…who really is making any real profit off of SF any ways other than J.Wong himself? Nobody. I love to be known as the guy who kicks butt with the watered down ninja character in 3rd Strike but I can only do so much to spread interest in SF. I’m not saying it will for sure but hopefully the CGS and other leagues will help bring back the popularity SF had in its glory days. Its a game definitely deserving of professional time in the spotlight and in general becoming at least a bit more mainstream than its been.
Back in the day it was all kinda about me just wanting to be a competitively player at Evo. Now these days its obvious that there’s much more to do to get the SF name back out there in the way that Mario, Final Fantasy and other franchises are to this day.
does it really matter? from the looks of it street fighter 4 is not very popular at all with the cgs crowd. i see sc4 taking off with cgs a lot more easily than sf4.
at the same time, though, that’s the ‘hardcore’ crowd. you could probably nab a much bigger casual audience of all shapes and sizes with sf4 considering its broad appeal thanks to the inclusion of the classics.
Yeah, so what if the top players get a larger seperation from mid tier? When we are at THAT level of wealth, sponsors will also have “B” or “farm” teams with players who could make it to the top based on their potential.
Also be parpared to train 8 hours/day. Geeting into Starcraft in Korea is something of sheer wish a dedicated discipline. It’s hardcore from the very outset. I do wish for a larger crowd to like those games, games like GG and MvC2 are also real crowd pleasers.
Let’s see what happens, I mean, FPS are dull to watch so something else has to pop up in the west. Either RTS or fighting games, both are great to watch.