Kindevu’s Laura beat both Nuki’s Chun and Itazan’s Zangief in this tournament. Take notes.
May need a timestamp for that. around the 1:43:00 mark. I’m seeing a lot of standing jabs coming from Laura and a LOT of risky lp bolts. As we already discussed her LP bolt on block leads to SPD territory. Also lots of mistakes made by the Gief. He kept trying to do something after Laura did a safe V-trigger after a f.HP, not sure why. Also saw a bunch of mp Bolts just kind of thrown out there assuming Gief was mashing normals. Noticed it was RIGHT outside of Gief’s normal range which ironically is where you don’t want to be with him.
edit - I posted crap that doesn’t work.
is there a way to delete post? lol
edit - none of that stuff works on gief, itabashi zangief just didn’t know the match up.
I’m just getting SPD’d out of everything.
edit - the stuff used on chun li doesn’t work either. ex clap on chun li’s wake up to “confuse” her, dash in and do air grab? Bogus! Every chun li, even ultra bronze just wakes up cr mp to dodge under then confirm into vtrigger = I die.
One really needs to understand how the clap works; as in when you can throw it out without eating a st.hk. Proper spacing is key in this matchup; you are bound to lose unless you have a deep understanding of all your normals.
The only good thing is that Zangief can have a hard time of punishing specific buttons like cr.hk properly.
-Almost never use overhead, because it can cost you the round.
-Do not use risky lp bolts.
-Normal meaty setups are not recommended, because you do not want to be close to Gief with frame disadvantage (back throw being the obvious exception).
-You need to be 100% with your anti-airs period. St.mp is preferable, because you need a way to get in. The neutral footsie game is extremely difficult.
-Almost never try to jump, because he will lariat and then you are in big trouble.
The thing is that his crouching jab shuts down her gimmicks effectively and you probably wont have too many chances during a given round. You need to quickly establish what kind of Gief you are fighting against. Most of them play rather safe so I have a tendency of using Laura’s command throw a lot more.
I don’t know if this is a 3-7 MU but it definitely feels like a ~3.5-6.5. It makes me sad, just as sad as platinum Chun Li and Necalli players.
So last night Stupendous just used jabs to shut down and beat this Laura player at WNF. People were laughing at him but that is a problem I think is legit for Laura. It’s happened to me before where Giefs crouch jab shuts down everything I try to do and beats me.
How do/would you guys deal with with that? I tried training mode and I couldn’t really find anything I could reliably whiff punish it with counter hit it.
Yo dude, I was watching that last night too and I’ve been telling everyone for the longest time that Gief’s cr jab is all he needs to beat Laura. Nobody believed me and now Stupendous showed the world!
The biggest problem is that this game’s jab anti airs are too strong, normally if someone is spamming a bunch of crouching pokes, jumping is the answer but half the cast has great jab anti airs cough Necalli cough
I think the most reliable method is to just ex bolt but if the Gief is smart and pauses jab once in a while, you’ll be -11. Alternatively you can also try st lk and confirm into light bolt, good luck with that though, it’s really just luck on who gets the hit.
That is why you have to space yourself correctly and fish CC’s with st.hk etc. This matchup requires a lot patience but when you do get in then just “YOLO” basically. You will only have a few chances every round against good Zangief players.
Also remember that Gief does not have great mobility either. This is basically a game of chicken, who cracks first. The neutral is super important, because one knockdown can basically be the end of you. The jab is annoying but it is often the best punish Gief has against a sweep or some such.
So I’m having better luck against gief’s, my new strategy is basically @DrGulag 's where I fish for counter hits with s.HK and s.HP then go ham after a knockdown. You have to totally disrespect his wakeup, the only thing to watch out for is wakeup super, which you can bait if you’re watching his meter. Alternating between sHK and sHP helps a lot to throw him off since they’re such diff speeds, and also waiting until you think he wants to press a button too, you can’t throw them out mindlessly either (it’s a lot like using Ryu’s fireball). So far the matchup is much easier this way. Doesn’t seem to be any worse than 4-6 now, where before for me it was easily 3-7. With some practice I thing it can be 5-5. Gief’s damage output is just too weak compared to Laura’s, strangely enough
Exactly, Ghost-_-Writer. It actually isn’t that bad as long as you maintain your composure. The most important thing is to play super safe in neutral, do not take any foolish risks. But when you get in, just go ham.
I do feel the MU favors Zangief but it is nothing like Chun Li.
I can’t use st hk in this match up. I get stuffed everytime I try.
St hp is not bad, but sometimes it loses to cr lp too.
The two best buttons, imo, are st lk and cr mp buffered into mp elbow. You beat gief’s cr lp most of the times and you get a knockdown
St.hp is way to short amd Geif can punish you for it easily, youre way to close to Gief to begin with and he’ll completely obliterate you. St.hk doesnt work either because like a previous poster said he will either completely shut the move down or you will pay dearly for it afterwards no matter the distance. I just start throwing fireballs and try to control the spacing, his normals reach too far for her to really do anything and keep him out.
Yeah, I find the only way to beat Gief is to lame him out. Fireballs when far and anti air far jumps with MK, close jumps with MP (or HP Bolt) and be unpredictable with your wakeup pressure. I think one of the biggest problems in this matchup is that it’s hard to build either meter because you spend so much time waiting to to punish. Then when you do get the meter you’re practically dead.
Zangief changes:
[details=Spoiler]ZANGIEF
Hurtbox on wakeup:
Adjusted hurtbox when changing direction
Atomic Drop/Captured (front and back throw):
Reduced CA meter gain
Standing MP:
Changed advantage on-hit +3F to +4F
Changed advantage on-block +1F to +2F
Standing HP:
Changed advantage on-hit +1F to +2F
Hurtbox around his feet appears 3F faster
Standing HK:
Changed advantage on-hit +1F to +2F
Crouching LP:
Changed advantage on-hit +5F to +4F
Crouching LK:
Changed advantage on-block +1F to +2F
Reduced hit pushback
Delayed startup of special moves 2F when cancelled from this move
Crouching MP:
Changed startup 7F to 6F
o Reduced duration of entire move by 1F
Crouching HP:
Changed advantage on-hit +1F to +2F
Jump LK, Jump MP, Jump HK:
Fixed issue where airborne opponents hit by this move got knocked further away when the
move hit as a counter
Head Butt:
Changed such that CA gauge now increases when you absorb a projectile with this move
V-Trigger (Cyclone Lariat):
Increased damage on first hit of button hold version 120 to 140
Increased stun first hit of button hold version 200 to 150
Increased stun second hit of button hold version 250 to 200
Increased duration of move
Adjusted timer gauge reduction with the increased duration
V-Reversal (Muscle Explosion):
Changed startup 10F to 12F
Changed recovery 19F to 24F
o No change to advantage on-hit and block
Applied hit and projectile invincibility to entire move to 1F～14F
Siberian Express:
Increased stun 200 to 250
EX Siberian Express:
Increased damage 200 to 230
Increased stun 200 to 250
MP Borscht Dynamite:
Reduced recovery on-hit 2F
HP Borscht Dynamite:
Reduced recovery on-hit 4F
EX Borscht Dynamite:
Increased stun 200 to 250
Double Lariat:
Increased damage 100 to 120 during 1F～3F of active frames
Increased CA meter gain on whiff
Increased hitbox upwards and inwards
Increased hitbox forwards during spin
Hitbox increased in size to hit or make crouching opponent block when spinning
You can now move forward/back slightly sooner after starting this move
Screw Pile Driver:
Reduced CA meter gain on whiff
Increased CA meter gain on-hit
HP Screw Pile Driver:
Reduced damage 240 to 220
Reduced distance to opponent after hit
o This change effects duration of entire move
EX Screw Pile Driver:
Reduced damage 240 to 220
Reduced distance to opponent after hit[/details]
Welp, everyone needs 3-7 MUs after all.
Ugh, forget it lets just say its 9-1 and be done with it. :s :’(
Who’s the worst mu for Gief ?
Need counter pick.
Birdie’s banana.
Sim.
Now that Laura is so much better, I am determined to find better answers to Gief…come back to me in 2020.
Problem is Gief is so much better too.
With the changes, what stopped working against Zangief?
I’m having a hard time seeing it from the frame data, and I want to prepare for the next time I find a Gief to fight (which so far hasn’t happened because of all the Akuma going around).