It was weird when it happened last night, I’ll peep the vid again if I saved it to see exactly why I thought it was so cool. It seemed like a good bait and punish in one yes followed by sweep. The jab whiffs as he starts because of the weird box ROg has where low attacks whiff, the ex fireball hits on the 2nd of course. Punish accordingly …
I was just fighting a decent (but drunk) Balrog and it was really even. This guy would just rack up 1 or 2 hits on me and then turtle/ wait on the opposite side of the screen and react to fireballs ie: Neutral jump lp. fireballs or absorb them, and stay seated for MP and HP fireballs. I would throw double lp fireballs, dash up, and follow with HP palms to beat him on the way down but after a while he seemed to read what was going on started back jump and I couldn’t seem to reach him. Then he’d just punish with jab > combo.
Looking back, I know I should have tossed out a fireball then HK demon flip, parry in and grab or something like that, but he always seemed to throw out jab before I could throw and get beat. Guess I could have baited the jab and use MP Kongo to get him scared to press buttons but… aagh … just venting.
Just throw fireball, then inches forward until he is cornered, then moves to the optimal spacing where you can punish any jump in but he can’t headbutt through or EX through fireball, and keep throwing it until he lose his life lead.
Yeah like ID01 said, if you guys were full screen and he was turtling you should have just started inching forward. Throw a lp hado dash, lp hado dash etc until you closed the gap. Two dashes and you would have been in hk GF range. Hado, hk GF kick then mp kongo because those damn Rog’s loooove jabbing. At that point he would have been in the corner and its all over from there.
at 3/4 or full screen, charge hadouken to the point where its almost a double hit hadouken so he rush or turn punches then you could either sweep, ultra, tatsu.
I played Alucard’s Balrog at SB Ascension '12 this past weekend. Cr.MP will stuff rush punches and TAP if spaced correctly. Mixing up DF Grab and DF Parry works well when your incorporating DF mixup’s. Bait TAP from midscreen with fireballs and buffer Ultra 1 after they come out to punish. Knowing your corner fake crossup setups also helps. Cr.LP > Crouch LK delay to see if they press a button > Dash in throw works wonders. Also set up your throw game early. If you notice crouch teching often use LP Kongo to stuff them.
i’ll usually c.lk<lp.hadou at poking distances. you’re safe from ex rush punches since he’ll miss you because you’re crouching and lp.hadou will push him back some.
If Balrog is doing EX Rush from 3/4 - Full Screen, just back throw his ass.
From mid > Close distance, I stopped trying to neutral jump hp him, instead I’ll delay a bit and jump back instead. For some reason when he does EX from mid > close he ends up behind you if you neutral jump to early. Delaying a bit and jumping back will let you beat the rush punch and if he doesn’t you get your spacing to zone.
Off topic, sorry…but what ever happened to Reipin Pillage? Did he jump off the G-Train or does anyone know anything? I kinda miss his edgy, sometimes abrasive posts lol.
Tried to Shin Sho a turn punch last night and got ex palm on accident. Saw the yellow flash, thought I was dead but the palm hit him fully lol. I figured it was iffy so I tested it afterwards and apparently it works all all of his punches if you can predict them. It has to be riiiight before they hit though.
IAM if you’re reading this, is this something similar to Adons Jaguar Tooth? I remember you saying that you can ex palm them if you do it right before. I’ve never tried it though. Does the palm hit with both hits?
I’d have to check it, but it sounds just like it… I do remember saying that about Adon… I need to keep better notes… I fucking forgot.
If you can time something to where Gouken’s invincibility windows are active you can palm a lot of things if you space them rightly. I’m going to test tha
I just wrote this whole big post on how Wiki says ex palm is only fireball invincible from such-and-such frame to such-and-such frame…check Wiki to make sure I wasnt putting my foot in my mouth and it doesnt say that lol. It says “invincible” which would explain why we go through normals sometime (thought it was a hidden buff). Wtf? I didnt know this. I’m def gonna hit the lab to see what we can avoid with this now. Wiki says startup is space dependent and the fastest is 9f. That can punish a TON of shit if thats the case. That means we can punish footsies if timed right. AND for a juggle? Oh man, I’ve been sleeping…
All of his palms have invincibility except lp. It’s that same window in which you’d avoid fireball… so what ever that window is it would be true for it.
“The fastest speed is in reference to what you can cancel out of, when doing combos”…
I found some major weakness in Adon’s EX Jagga tooth too.
That move isn’t as strong as it seems if you can react quick enough. There are solid ways to beat it from up-close and far.
I’m trying to wrap my mind around the fact that if I can beat Adons attacks this way… who else is suspect??
LP Palm - 9 Start Up … but his hit box goes backwards - 4 on block
MP Palm - 16 Start up first active region / 21 second active region 4-13 invincible -6 on block
HP Palm - 17 Start up first active region / 27 second active region 5-19 invincible -6 on block
EX Palm - 17 Start up first active region / 32 second active region - 2-25 invincible (this is what event hubs has) 5-24 invincible (this is what SRK has) - 5 on block
I always thought the 2-25 invincibility was true up until AE. I know it was that way in Super, b/c you could time Dhalsims limbs and palm him as long as he was actively hitting you while your invincibility windows were active.
You could avoid Zangiefs EX Green hand this way too if he decided to go through a fireball. You still can, but it’s just tighter now I think… I’d have to check.
BTW I can hit Adon out of EX Jagga tooth with each version of Gouken’s palm… just something to think about 
So I am mistaken here. You can only ex palm his Dash Upper? Dash Straight, Dash Low Straight, Dash Low Smash, Dash Swing Blow and tap all lose to ex palm. I dont know what the hell I tested before but I must not have done it right. I re-tested and these are the results I got. So if you predict an Upper you can wait til just before he hits you and ex palm. Our invincibility will take over and ex palm will hit fully for the juggle. Not practical but just putting it out there.
I’ll play around with Palm some more, b/c I’m sensing that if it can beat Adon’s EX Jagga Tooth then there should be some other moves it can beat out. … have you tried using any of the other Palm on Balrog?
Basic strategy u zone rog using ur tools and ex tatsu his dash punches… until u get a knock down then rush him… Or corner him by you forcing it or bait him… Gouken df throw changes side so corner your self and look for the chance to switch sides… Df parry his d.fp and land and combo the crap out of him. Once he is trained then u df throw for free… If the Rog player uses c. Techs for throws start konging and frame trapping him especially if you have shin sho ready u can bring the fear of the throw to the match… Dont forget his ex dash can be thrown and if u read a ex dash wake up just empty jump thow and shin sho… Rog is hard but since he has no 3 frame reversal you can show the Rog player that the old man can bring the rain and make him fear you! Ok I’m done
I haven’t, just ex palm after you mentioned that EX JT thing. It seems like the rest of the punches have more active frames. The Upper just seems like it has little and the EX will take over. I tested all the other punches for about 20 minutes to make sure I was doing it right and none of the rest worked. Like I said at the beginning, they just appear to have longer active frames. But its cool, we can punish Rog with way worse things than ex palm so its no biggie lol.
LOL… This match up has definitely gotten easier since Vanilla. When they added all that recovery to his head butt, I was like that’s your ass Mr. Post Man… you can’t headbutt away from Vortex anymore… LOL.
Focus is good on his straight and upper punch too… If they do the stomach punch it breaks Armor but Neutral jump HP also Breaks his ass… and every body knows just to buffer something if he taps through a fireball… or just punch him out of it or neutral jump.
His wake up is ASS… and he can’t deal with cross up dj. mk worth a damn. If you do it right, his only 2 options out are EX Rush Punch or TAP and they both go the opposite way.
Sometimes if you neutral jump and he does EX he will land behind you… It happens to me with Yun alot too… What kind of Bull Shit is that.
Hahaha, thats yo assssss Mr. Possstmaaan. I never have problems vs ANY Rog really. We recover on hado’s so quickly that its nothing he can really do. TAP getting eaten and even if he ex’s through that gets eaten as well. His sweep is GODLIKE though, but he has no overhead and no mixup capability so its pointless. I’ve noticed that they do this jumping whiff attack to the other side on regular knockdowns for ambiguity but all you have to do is not quickrise lol. Only two of his punches armor break like you said so we can focus and kongo the bejesus outta him.
One thing I have noticed is that because of his jump arc we cant full screen hado, dash, ex tatsu…it completely whiffs But that really doesn’t matter seeing how we can hado 3/4 and closer for free lol. Poor Balrog…
So mid combo, if he tries to do the overhead punch into ultra setup, do we have enough time to neutral jump the delay?
Not sure… but I know it depends on what he puts you in hit stun with… his cr. lp and far lp both leave you in 4 and 5 frames of blockstun and if he cancels it to special… he gets even more frame advantage, b/c it negates some of his recovery which is only 4 and 5 frames… so it seems pretty tight.
Frame data has the fastest start up for it at 12, assuming you canceled it… If I can get on, I will test it, but i’ve never tried it before.
Techinically if you can jump out… you should be able to forward grab or jab him, since jumping takes 4 pre frames.