but if you are willing to take palm, you open yourself up to be thrown… not unless he jumps early, as if you are just crouching he can still throw you. Palm is already accounted for since you are just blocking.
A pro Akuma is a real challenge… Master fighting him and other characters feel easier…
I use zoning keep him out and do not get knocked downed…
I learned to fight w no ex unless it’s a combo but I build a super and that helps vs wake up df palms… Other than that just block and once u tech a throw zone him again until he gets in…
Use denjin
What more damage? DF palm or throw? Also which ones give Akuma less setups afterward?
I’d have to check srk wiki for the damage data, he can vortex after either one lol.
I thought it was some BS that his Palm had the armor break instead of his hurricane kick, AND his wheel kick hits twice, AND he has a 2 hit EX Fireball, AND his DP hit’s more than once, AND he has a command 2-3 hit fireball.
His DF Palm could lack armor break and he still be able to OS after it with the instant recovery it has… I think they purposely wanted to shit on Gouken in this match up so they made palm armor break. If he didn’t have that, this would be an even match up.
But, its not and DF Palm is a broke ass move in terms of this match up. What a load of BS.
The df palm should have recovery like it does in third strike but still break armor as the perk. That would be the perfect balance
lol, iamthatiam
What’s really tippin’ it over for me (after it has already tipped over a giant town-water tank), is that the far standing HK will catch you even in the air, if you try to jump away or jump up and land with HP. Nevermind that it shouldn’t hit low and beat out our sweep or cr. MP, but it covers the air too.
I just want to grab some balance-coordiator by the collar, and scream WHYYYYYYYYYY!!! and brutalize him in wait for an answer
Akuma’s air fireballs in Alpha and SF3 were never this bad. SF4 has brought it back to Super Turbo; no freaking joke…
I’ve never had an issue with his air fireballs, the only issue I’ve ever had with Akuma was that fucking palm. He really doesn’t have any other reason to dive kick Gouken from his flip on Gouken’s wake b/c meaty df palm covers all of his bases and take away all of ours. And it’s not even hard to do, you just meaty palm and os sweep and Gouken get’s knocked back down or punished (there’s a timing that allows the OS to recover before EX Flip can dive kick to hit him too!!!)
Whenever I see an Akuma dive kicking Gouken on wake up I always say to myself “what a dummy”.
There are a couple of other characters who get’s raped the same way, so I just deal with it. I guess it’s just a testament to how insanely good Akuma is.
I’m under the impression that the palm knocks Gouken down and leaves Akuma standing awhile and forces Akuma to manually time his next flip as opposed to the throw which I think has a built in setup for the next safe flip/throw. I don’t know though.
Yeah you have to manually time it, but it’s really not that bad. I can get it at least 6/7 out 10 times and I don’t really use Akuma much. For someone who uses Akuma it wouldn’t be any different than how we alter our dive kick timings. There is a small window to get it right though, but I’ve faced some really good Akuma’s who make it their business to exploit palm set ups vs. Gouken.
Against other characters the timing may need to be a little tighter b/c of 4 frame reversals, but the fastest we have is 7. So there is a 3 frame handicap Akuma get’s vs. Gouken just b/c it’s Gouken. He doesn’t even need to time it early or exactly, it just needs to be timed not to whiff and to avoid a 7 frame reversal.
I think characters with 4 and 5 frame reversals stand a better chance to evading the palm, but Akumas dive kick stuffs most of their reversals. (Go Figure.)
You don’t reversal the manual timing with EX tatsu, you reversal with c.lk xx HK tatsu. I’m not sure what frame Gouken ducks the palm but it is way better than EX tatsuing.
I’ve done it before, but the way I time it Akuma’s palm seems to catch Gouken during cr. lk. If I do anything but block Gouken get’s opened up.
I’ll play with it to see exactly how late/high Akuma needs to be to have cr. lk > tatsu punish him. Akuma’s palm only has 2 active frame though… are you sure it’s avoiding the palm altogether or is the palm just not active anymore when you do cr. lk?
I really have no idea why it works other than the hitbox is too low. If it is a canned setup, like forward throw, dash, palm the c.lk will not work unless they mess up their timing. The thing is, off the palm knockdown they have no canned set up so it gives way more leeway for the c.lk to work. The canned set ups hit Gouken on his first waking frame, I think you just need someone to be off by two frames for c.lk to effectively evade the palm.
It’s probably b/c the Akuma doesn’t know the timing.
Go to training mode and record Akuma doing this.
- Sweep Gouken
- Meaty DF Palm, then whiff cr. roundhouse wait about 1 or 2 frames
- Meaty DF Palm again
This should give you spot on timing for that set up, and the Akuma player will gradually learn the timing all together without use for the cr. roundhouse as a cue and Gouken can’t use cr. lk to get out of this he will get hit every time.
When I first started toying around with Akuma it was b/c of this one set up, he can literally use his palm and force his opponents to block or give up a punish (or in some cases burn meter but that 0 frame super is a beeotch).
The cr. lk definitely works for late set ups, but it’s also a free combo should the Akuma decide to dive kick instead. I guess I found my reason why Akuma would want to dive kick on Gouken lol.
I fucking hate DF Palm.
That’s my point, you are asking me to wait 1 or 2 frames, that is manual timing. The whiff sweep is not perfect timing. I don’t know the timing and my xbox is not even hooked up. I’m just saying, it requires a measure of timing for the player to get it correctly that is not perfectly timed with a normal.
I see what you are saying but at the end of the day Gouken lacks a reliable way to get up once Akuma knocks him down.
It just sucks that as the Gouken player I am waiting for the Akuma player to let me out while I try to guess and block.
If only we could :dp: :p:… that would teach him.
“I’ve found a guaranteed 100% way to get out of his Vortex!..”
That’s what i’d like to say :P, did i get your hopes up?
But my question is do alot of other characters have ways to get out a bit easier?
I can only think of uppercuts, and such type moves. Although I guess the extra benefit is being able to fadc it even if he’s on time.
Yeah uppercuts for the most part.
Maybe Giefs EX SPD would work but if Akuma is at 0 once he’s on the ground OS srk would beat it out.
Everything else, you can do and FADC out of it which is good to have. I was able to do lk tatsu off the ground and he’d just safe jump it… maybe I’ll try FADCing out of that when I have 2 bars. What a waste though. as the 2 bars can win you the match vs. Akuma.
What Reipin said about cr. lk is not that bad if you know how and when to use it. It’s definitely something I need to put in my plan vs. Akuma, as I think I may have given too many Akuma’s too much credit regarding their timing of how to use DF Palm.
I just checked. lk tatsu fadc is good to go when he does that. He’s still right next to you though poor Gouken.
According to the Street Fighter plot, Gouken has to lose.
Damn… didn’t he already lose once???
Check out my new avatar. lol 
I find them unfair. They have disgustingly long hit- and block-stun, they travel slowly and dominate the playfield for longer, and their trajectory can be changed in unpredictable ways. It’s not fun, because when you’re cornered and Akuma jumps in at you, you can’t praise the Lord for an EX Tatsu anti-air, but you have to watch out for the air fireballs, and once you block them, you have to block a free mix-up, and once that’s over, you’re still at the disadvantage.
He has a few tricky set ups, but kongo neutralizes a lot of them, especially the ones where he is right behind the fireball.
Depending on the distance try doing these.
Kongo
Walk/Dash Under
Focus Absorb
Palm
Denjin
Mp Hado