In super maybe, when LP palm was effective in this role. Doing this with MP palm now is a HUGE risk. If you block it and you were mid screen it’s going to be -5 at best on block. That’s a cr.lk xx Jaguar knee FADC Ultra 2 no? 
^ You can space mp palm or hp palm to be safe but they are a bit more risky than the old lp palm b/c of the distance you have to do it from. So use with caution.
Yeah, I’m aware of the spacing, but the spacing you need is like 3/4 of a screen, you aren’t catching anyone by surprise from that far away.
With old LP palm mid screen someone was pretty much forced to “guess” focus through a fireball, if you palmed and they blocked you were relatively still ok assuming no three frame dp. Guess wrong at mid screen with MP palm and you are not relatively ok
1.) move forward and make note of fire ball pattern
2.)focus through fireball/jump over
3.)?
4.) profit
Heh. It’s nice to see two different communities working together. You can finally see that everyone thinks that their own main has plenty of hard knocks in playing. Except for those higher tier chars, complaining about “oh no lk scissors has more pushback my life is ruined”. Yea fuck that. Guess who my least favorite char is.
Jaguar kicks
Far.st.MK can stuff Jaguar kicks (except EX I think). A whiffed cr.LK can sometimes escape from being hit too (not sure which version but I think EX can still hit you).
Jaguar Tooth
With regulars you can just do MP Gohadouken if you zone from far (can be quite fun :)). However, Adon’s EX Jaguar Tooth is very dangerous as it looks like a regular one initially, then flashes just before he leaves the wall. So I suggest no Gohadoukens when he has EX bars.
What’s the typical go to punish on a blocked Jaguar Kick? I’ve been experimenting with cr.j xx j.palm, cr.lk xx j.palm, st.mk xx j.palm (sometimes the distance gives the long version, not the knee and low or med kongo. Mixed results. Is this regularly punishable?
So I went through my replays and found one that you guys might be interested in. Now I admit that I am not the best Adon out there and at the time this was the #1 Gouken in PSN NA region so maybe you guys can pick some stuff out of this vid.
Cheers.
Edit:
It aint just you…
[media=youtube]_pGZpKLU5No[/media]
Durant, seriously if you watch, there was very little answer to Jaguar Kick and I think that is a problem for Gouken. Gouken depends on Adon beating himself. Do safe shit, mix-up your attacks hi-lo after Jaguar Kick. Instant overhead kick (neutral jump hk?) creates issues too. I’ve already said too much.
My question is what do you do AFTER the attack if you blocked it. Those moves seem too safe. I try to kongo low or mid (guessing game), EX flip (guessing game), cr.lp xx lp.palm (guessing game), or grab (guessing game). There has to be a better way!
Did I FT 10 with an Adon last night. Was a joke. For the way I play Gouken, I can’t win this matchup.
You absolutely cannot just zone him, you have to attack him. My problem is that I have no idea how to stop jaguar kicks once he is close. You block one and you are at his mercy. His followups are blockstring into a cancelled jaguar kick (rinse repeat), jaguar knee (this is where, if you tried to a normal you lose), or jump for a cross up (you can easily win this one with a jump back attack).
Of even bigger concern for me than this though, is the Jaguar Tooth, how the FUCK do you stop the EX one? Ultra has been my only solution. EX tatsu will whiff, KongOLOLOLOLOL, fireballs go through it (why the fuck can’t our EX palm be fireball invuln the whole way!?), normals lose to it… What does one do? It is not punishable on block…
This is what I need to know basically how do I turn the tide after I have blocked one of his array of get in armor breaking moves? Just even get him away from me.
Okay I usually do this in the Adon forums but for a few moments I will forget that I am an Adon player and look at it from Gouken’s angle. I will agree that the match up is tough on the part that Adon essentially removes most of your parry game out of play since all of his specials break armour and focus. However in that particular video that Gouken did make the Adon beat himself. The first problem that the Adon had was that he could not generate ex meter. Adon requires ex meter to negate the fireball game unless you are being predictable with fireballs. Seriously this is a match you want to fight from far unless you got a combo going. You want Adon to make mistakes so you can capitalize on them. I personally thought Gouken was more about keep away than Akuma was.
Anyways if you look closer at the video you will notice that this Gouken mainly throws fireballs at two situations;
[LIST=1]
[]Whenever he is full screen away
[]On Adon’s wake up while knocked down
[/LIST]
He doesnt bother with fireballs any closer since he knows he is at jaguar kick distance and its only a matter of Adon kicking over the horizontal one. Also take note of 1:23-1:28. Gouken spends time throwing mp fireballs. Why, You may ask? Take a special note of what happens at 1:26. Adon blocks the fireball. I am almost sure because of the angle, Adon cant jaguar kick those fireballs and at certain distances he cant get too close. So does this mean you can use mp fireballs all day? No because Adon can just as well go back to corner get a bar and get in, however this can buy you maybe a second or two to figure something else out.
Other things of Interest
-If you look closely at both videos (in this thread so far), notice both throw the fireball game out the window except when at far distances.
-Also in both vids (well really the second one) EX-tooth only became an option for Adon when at far distances. Look at what Gouken does in the second vid at 0:50-0:53. To me this seems like a step in the right direction. The only way that wont work is unless your back is to the corner.
-1:17-1:18 Jaguar kick stuffed
I really think you guys are giving up too early. Originally I posted 6-4 in Adon’s favor. Upon thinking its 5.5-4.5 Adon, although thinking I may even go even once the Gouken really goes into the match with a plan. Come on guys we all have bad match ups but I am sure this match will become better once you guys are more familiar.
PS. Dont be so concerned about Jaguar kick. That is only one element of his game. You may think its the main one but you would be wrong.
It’s not that we lose the parry game, it’s that we have no other way to really stop what you are doing, on reaction.
When I stuff a a jaguar kick, it’s cause I’m just randomly throwing out st.mk not cause I saw it coming and did it.
In the first video I’m disturbed by the lack of Jaguar kicks. Why is the Adon player not throwing them left and right like the way I suffer them once I’ve blocked one? If the Adon player is not doing them left and right, there is a reason, and it’s not cause he is scared of EX tatsu (which the ONLY thing you really have to fear once you are in). There has to be something I’m missing. Several times he get a blockstring going and instead of ending with a normal cancelled into JK he goes for st.hk.
There is a secret with Jaguar kicks and I am sure all of you are missing it. Review your replays and then compare them to both videos. Go into training and test out the jaguar kicks for yourself. Something is telling me that you guys are spending the match trying to figure out when jaguar kick and jaguar tooth is coming rather than finding out when they wont come. Whatever you do, just dont be like this guy in the first round (No offense to him).
[media=youtube]leiwyx36lGw[/media]
That’s exactly what my matches look like
Alright give me a replay to work with. Post one of your replays with an Adon and I will analyze it right here and see if I can point out some things to you, that is if you dont mind.
I’d love to but I don’t have a capture card or anything.
Any of you Goukens want to help me out? I’ll play a first to 10 where I’m not trying random shit to stop things and then share it over the replay channel and one of you can record it and post it?
well, the last adon i played was when gamerbee adon came in… i don’t see the macht that dificult… if you zone him, you need to be aware of his ultra, they trend to use ultra 1 for fireball players… so the big thing is try to poke him out with MK if you have a 2 body distance it kills his jarguar kick, you can use st.HK for long poke too, its really usefull… for the jaguar tooth its really hard to reat to it, what kills him is st. HP… buuuuut you need gods reactions, so everybody need to practice it… and when he has longer than 2 body distance and jump in, he usually do the jaguar in the air and you can kongo that… and last but not least… you can really play zoning with the guy, unless he has a bar and you have to be carefull…
hoooo its that viper goompa GOUKEN’S??? he seems very much alike in the play style…
Yea, that’s vipergoomba, he seemingly always plays that same stage when he’s host. This match sucks, if their are any good adon players on psn that would like to play me, maybe we can get a set going that we can analyze like durant suggested.
Hey, you’re PSN? Can I get some games in with you? GODHAND04