Chun Li vs Vega (claw) matchup analysis
While I like the Matchup Sticky thread, I find it very hard to find specific information in there, and people are asking more questions than answering them. Therefore i’m going to post a thread devoted to one particular matchup. I could put this in the Chun Li or Vega Character Specific Threads, but no one really goes in there, and I think this thread should apply to BOTH characters in this matchup. I wouldn’t want to put up two separate threads in those forums either, it would dilute the responses to this one (I think)… if any mod has a suggestion to me about how to go about this… I’d like to hear it.
Anyway. I play C Chun Li, and most of the time when I play Vega, he is C Groove as well.
HOWEVER
in order to fully benefit all players, we will consider all grooves. Because this thread is dealing with one particular matchup, I think we can do that. But, instead of saying which groove, identify the Particular Sub System you’re talking about.
Example…
Instead of focusing on N chun vs P Vega…
You just just say “If Chun Li has low jump, low jump Heel stomp works really well on a Turtling Vega” so basically you’re information just applied to Chun Li in P,S,N,K grooves instead of just saying N Chun"
Also, Parrying and Just Defense are not really character specific qualities and (IMO) shouldn’t be talked about that much in a matchup analysis thread. It tends to be very abstract. “well in K groove they can just defend everything”… duh. But I don’t think that has much to do w characters matching up. Anyone else agree with me here?? Like… In any 3rd Strike thread, the “strategy” goes out the window when all there is to say is “parry it”.
Btw, Rolling, Dodging, Customs, Lvl 2 Cancels, and alpha Counters are all Character Specific, since characters possess unique versions of these which change matchups. Iori’s Roll is better than Chun’s, but his JD is not… Capiche?
Anyway, not to go on a rant there, just stating how to approach a matchup thread considering all the grooves is a good idea.
I encourage both Vega and Chun players to post here. How does Vega compete with Chun Li? What gives Vega problems? Only experts from both characters can really shed light on how the fight is supposed to proceed perfectly.
Super Turbo is a game that has all of these matches figured out… Perhaps we should apply the same effort to another game.
I will make my second post about my experiance with this fight.
I play Chun Li. First off, Vega is a small character, so stand jab, stand strong, and most importantly Spinning Bird Kick all whiff him when he’s crouching. His claw (mainly duck strong, but duck fierce too) has longer reach than Chun Li’s Stand Strong, so he can punish whiffed Stong attempts. Also, his slide usually beats out Stand Strong. This is all from my observation.
My main problem seems to be his overall advantage (IMO) in ground Priority, while also having a good advantage in the air. Since Vega jumps higher and faster, he can usually hit chun out of Jump Short or Forward, and I get air thown alot too. His Cr. Fierce and Stand RH also nail me when I resort to jumping over his claw pokes.
His defense against Cross ups seems a bit weak, but since he’s a short character, sustained pressure is hard to keep up after a sucessful cross up. If I attempt to cross him up again right afterward he just jumps backwards and hits me.
What I have going for me is (obviously) that Chun Li has a greater potential for damage due to her supers, and her Low RH seems to stuff all of Vega’s Normal Jump ins. I know some of Vega’s pokes are very unsafe… but at what range and what level super? Also… how many hits does it take to knock off vega’s claw and mask? Would it be practical to make him block a kick super to make him lose the claw/mask since he can only retaliate with 1 hit???
Thanks everyone who wants to contribute to this discussion. If I get a good response, I’ll post other specific matches.
Anyone have any match Videos of this matchup?? if you do, can you clip it to just the Chun vs. Vega part when/if you link it. If not, that’s ok too. Lol.
A couple of posts I found in the OLD, OLD Anti Vega thread. Sheds a little more light, albeit bleak light… on the matchup.
[quote] Originally posted by Sabin
[umm…vega beats chunli both on the ground and in the air…if chun tries to do j. sk just walk back and s. roundhouse that shit, or roll behind him to get better positioning… then you can just poke at him all day for free. s. strong, low forward, slide…its really
dumb. all Chun can hope to do is to try to get random counterhits on the ground with low rh, or f rh or whatever. Wont get you very far.
Chun does not beat Vega. Matchup is too hard for her.
Best Vega counter I know of so far is Bison, who cheese master already said. Runup low forward gives him hella footsie problems on the ground.@Get him in two blocked combos, and you have his guard flashing. short jump rh, jab jab low forward scissors, and then do it again. Its not hard.
Main problem i have is stopping him from jumping…I havent played this match enough, but is there a AA outside of RC psycho crusher (which isnt always viable, cuz you have to charge back for it, thus losing your initiative…you can use RC psycho crusher to hit any whiffed vega limbs though, or when you think hes gonna attack so you can blow through him) that beats his jumpins?
I know you can do double jump strong at him, but you have to predict when he is gonna jump…/QUOTE]
Japanese kept saying that Chun beats Vega. Bas even swore to it, and he said it was because of ‘crossup. she get in and wins’.
So, basically Justin Wong proved me right (and all of New York too) at Evo finals… Sure all Chun needs is a strong, but Vega won’t get hit if he’s like almost full-screen away.
Soooo in this year’s theory fighter
USA 1 JAPAN ZEROOOOOO
dash in a LOT. this is probably the best way to get in on vega. rolling is a bit too slow and her jump ins are too floaty.
psychic jumping hk or jumping hp works pretty well but dont get too predictable or you’ll get air thrown and shit.
j.hp works well against a jump back rh c-vega since it can guard break them when they land.
sometimes, its just best to trade her sweep with his jump ins.
you can get a free c.mp into super if you block or get hit by vega’s close s./c. strong, s./c. hps. a lot of characters can too but hopefully this can help chun.
Main problem is Vega can RC a lot of his moveset just to get away from Chun, especially his wall dive. S.rh doesn’t let her jump, and c.fierce his her crossup when it DOES cross up. The only thing I’ve seen that Chun can do a lot is try and whore s.rh. It’ll make him scared to throw low pokes all day. Besides, he’s gonna be almost fullscreen anyways, so… -_-
Paco
EDIT: And to whomever posted it, Chun c. rh does NOT stuff Vega’s normal jump-in’s. Whomever you are playing against is prolly either timing them wrong (shouldn’t matter) or hitting the wrong buttons.
IMO this is chuns worst match up. whenever i play against a good vega i just abuse the shit out of s.mp and s.rh. when i get in close i usually do a few walking jabs. If they are in the corner i do close stand roundhousexxxsuperjump lk, land and repeat about 3 times then do jab, jab. s.mpxxxhcf+p as a block string. Whenever me and vega are in the air i use fierce in oder to get the air throw. Knockdowns are really important to chun in this matchup. and c.rh doesn’t work at all as anti air, vega beats it cleanly.
yea, this matchup blows. this is one of the reasons i play C-chun now as opposed to A or even N. because if i land one standing/crouching mp or RC lightning legs (my new favorite move), then i can do her combo of death which makes vega lose his claw and mask. it’s basically maximizing her damage from only one hit. to quote mixup, “retarded shit from one hit:D.”
i know that sucks, but vega really limits her options in general. but the general rule of thumb is to gain ground and KEEP IT. try to corner vega where he can’t jiggle around and punish your pokes. try to look for slides and roll through them and try to catch vega in his recovery.
and gandido, if vega stuffs chunners crouching rh, what can she do for AA?
RC legs has bad recovery when you whiff. If you do it as wake-up a lot, Vega is going to jump straight up and come straight down with HK a lot.
The person who made this thread also rigs tournies to his favor and complains a lot when he doesn’t win. I refuse to post a single contribution to this thread.
That’s funny considering you’ve never attended a tourney I ran. :rolleyes: I know you were at that shitty Hagerstown tourney and you were at the last ECC, and both of those tourneys I only called matches. I have run the A3 tourneys at the past two ECCs, but I’m sure you’re not refferring to that.
I ran Gametime tourneys for 2 years, ran tourneys at ECC (A3 mostly), run tourneys down here in Richmond, and I’ve never had any sort of complaint (aside from maybe HyperViperSniper, but that’s what he does). And for the record, I play noticably WORSE when i’m running a tourney as opposed to when I’m not. My very few tourney victories all have come when I had nothing to do with running the tournement.
I run tournements for free, take time out of my fucking day to put up with bullshit from people who don’t have money, are late, bug me about their matches, ask if they can have a particular side, and make the shitty sticks my fault. From time to time in tourneys, one must make discretionary calls, who gets the bye, who should get floated, what matches get replayed, and who gets placed where in the bracket. Everything is a call that I have to make, and sometimes people aren’t happy with it. When I run a tourney, usually it is a gigantic pain in the ass. Why do I do it then? I love the scene, despite its faults, and I want to see it grow more. I have tried really hard to help it along in Virginia these past couple of years.
And guess what kind of thanks i’ve ever got?
“he rigs tourneys to his favor”
wow. amazing. The worst possible slander you could throw at a tourney director, and something you have no idea what you are talking about. Because you have only been to two tourneys I even fucking ATTENDED, much less was in charge of. It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to rig a tourney in Street Fighter, because you can’t rig the outcome of any given match short of breaking someone’s stick or something. Even then, an easy bracket can only take you as far as 3rd place before you have to play the best player in the tournement. 3rd place in local tourneys I run isn’t exactly profitable enough to rig the brackets and risk the kind of ire that you are throwing at me now. I’m sorry, this is a hobby of mine that will always COST me money, not gain me money. I’m always in favor of LOWERING tourney costs… man, I must be planning to rig that 3 dollar tourney!!
Look, man. I don’t know where you get your facts, but please keep your fucking mouth shut before you hurt an innocent person’s reputation in a hobby he cares deeply about. Just because I play in the tournements I run doesn’t mean I’m fixing the tourney, it means I like to play games. I wouldn’t be running tournements if I didn’t like to play them. I have known for a long time that I cannot compete with elite players in SF, so why would I bother doing such a thing as you suggest?
If it weren’t for the organizers like Phi, Ponder and Ink, Todd, Jason Wilson, Eric in Philly, and to some extent me and Dave Fennell here in MD/VA, there would BE NO FUCKING SF SCENE. There would be just shitty players who whine about how there’s no one holding any tourneys anymore cuz sorry pricks like yourself insulted the few guys who were willing to put up with the COLLECTIVE BULLSHIT of the entire scene. Not for money or fame or placings, b/c they care about it.
What have you EVER done for this scene?? What gives you any fucking right to say ANYTHING about how I run a tourney when you’ve never ran one yourself much less attended one of mine. So please, pull your head out of your ass before you try to talk shit to someone who’s actually put some work into this hobby we call street fighter.
Robin Palm
Also: for the record, I’m not very gracious in defeat. If I were happy to lose, I would have never tried to get better. When I lose, I’m bitter, I’m angry, and I try to look for excuses before I eventually accept the loss for my fault in gameplay. Its a cycle, and I try to limit myself. Last time I checked, it wasn’t a cardinal sin to be a sore loser sometimes when alot is at stake.
Ok, Chun Li cannot beat Vega. She cannot jump in on Vega, she cannot play footsies with Vega, and she cannot fight him hand to hand. Also, Vega can jump over her fireballs. Cuz this fight is a complete mismatch for all games… she cannot beat him in ST, A3, CvS2, or CvS1 for that matter.
KXCJ:
The tournement I believe you are talking about that was rigged was a mistake on all parts. I fought you second round after I talked to the tournement director who I thought was running the tournement (skisonic) said we had to fight. I thought you did excellent at ECC, and I realized the place you got. But the fact the had to fight in the tourney was strictly due to region. Now the fact that I won doesn’t have anything to do with him. It just has to do with me being better than you. The brackets weren’t rigged because Robin lost. Your friend Nestor was seeded because he has a bigger name in a bigger game (mvc2). Please refrain from giving peoples a bad name, especially tournement directors in my ever so small region. Also, if you would have liked to have played Robin earlier in the tournement, I’m sure that could have been arranged, and he would have owned you for free, cuz his team counters your team. If you wanna talk shit, Fuck you, I dont have time to hear it. If you wanna criticize good tournement directors, fuck you, I don’t wanna heat it. If you criticize me cuz you got you ass kicked (DESTROYED), fuck you… well wait, no… You did make me look so good. Still the fact remains that there was an error made in running the tournement. I apologize for Robin who was simply running brackets. Basically, if you feel so wronged about what happened… why not challenge Robin and his friends to a 3 on 3 100 dollar match, and see who wins at the end of the night. That’s it.
Peace
James
PS- Don’t say shit about my region. Don’t talk no shit, won’t be no shit.
Yes, I’ve only been to two tournies where you happened to be at. Quite frankly, even just one tourney would enough for me form an accurate opinion of what kind of person you are. About rigging tournies… You had nothing to do with the brackets about both tournies you’re telling me? Alright. In that case, if you don’t want players to suspect that something isn’t quite right from now on, don’t let them overhear you talking to tourny directors about how you don’t want to play Sanford and would rather play another guy (me, who just happened to be somebody you never heard of) anymore. Also stay away from the brackets altogether if you have nothing to do with running a specific tourny. You have no business sitting at the director’s seat the majority of the time if that’s the case
About being a serious player and playing games as a hobby… As far as I’m concerned, you’re hopeless. Lose the attitude next tourny you go to. Nobody’s going to respect you as a player, and you’re definately not making any new friends, with the way I’ve seen you act.
I’ve never seen you shake your opponent’s hand after a match. Not once. Instead, it’s always some excuse about how something wasn’t right.
You lost a match in a console tourney, but you demand a rematch because apparently you couldn’t play with the background music. Usually with that kind of thing, you get it straightened away before the match starts. Not after the match is already over or is about to be over.
You reset the game four times against my friend after the match had already started at VA tourny. Three times were without even asking.
I’m in the middle of playing my match, and you’re sitting five feet behind me having a discussion about tourney rules with somebody else. I’m trying to concentrate and then all of sudden you point at me and complain loudly, “See? He’s roll canceling right now!”
When you don’t win, instead of thinking about what your opponent was doing to win, and what you could of done to counter that, you go online and make a post about how “techincally I was the better player, and I would of won if this guy wasn’t doing… blah, blah”.
Your disrespectful attitude and lack of basic respect/common sense, befounds me. Now you’re coming on the forums and posting like you know everything about the very game you always complain about? I don’t know where players like you come from. All I know is it makes me sick. Get mad and storm out of tournies before they’re over (like at Haggarstown) more often buddy. Saves people like me (adults that don’t act like ten year olds) the aspirin costs for all the headaches you give them.
Don’t swear at me. Don’t threaten me. I have absolutely nothing against you and your crew. I considered you and Will pretty cool actually. But, if this is the kind of friend you’re going to be then I have nothing further to say. Last I checked, it wasn’t a crime to speak your mind in a public forum. I read Robin’s posts here and said what I wanted to say about them.
So… basically… you’re saying you are wrong, and that you completely lied about me rigging tourneys. Oh, ok. Gotcha. That gives me a GREAT impression of what kind of person you are.
Calling out matches and running brackets are two COMPLETELY different things. if you ever noticed, anytime someone was moved or an issue came up, I went to Phi.
Of course I’m going to state the opinion I’d rather play you than Sanford. Who wouldn’t say that? Especially since I just lost to Jason Cole. That’d be pretty fucked up, if you ask me. Stating the OPINION that I’d rather play you than sanford, and actually CHANGING THE BRACKETS are two different things. Don’t assume you know anything. Turns out, I didn’t have to play him anyway. Maybe I should have let him hand me my ass, then I wouldn’t have to listen to you.
No one’s going to respect you as a person if you make false accusations about them with no proof to back it up. Who are you to talk about attitude? You are a complete DICK on these forums. Over there in the Akuma thread, a friend of mine posted a decent strategy to use teleport->Raging Demon on a Chang spinning his ball based on LISTENING TO THE WHIFFS… that’s some good thought on the topic, if you ask me. And you go on to flame him like an asshole, basically saying "OOOOoo, Chang is sooo top tier now"
You know, I’m not really a good loser… I think I’ve went over this point in my original post. I DO NOT LIKE TO LOSE. Period. But ask anyone who really knows me if I got a bad attitude, or if I’m a nice guy. They’ll all say yes. Would B Chun stick up for me (thanks James) if he thought I had a bad attitude? Would anyone stick up for me if they didn’t respect me as a player?
And I shook Cole’s hand after he beat me. Ask him. I usually do. When I don’t, it’s usually b/c I’m upset at the moment. But I really like how you OMIT the fact that I congratulated you on your victory later, after I cooled off. I said “good shit, man” in respect. I’m such an ass. You didn’t deserve it.
Actually, I demanded a rematch but didn’t get it. Khang wouldn’t allow it. I gave the guy 10 bucks to rematch b/c of the problem, and he agreed. I couldn’t hear any of the sounds for combos or anything, and it fucked up my timing. I played again, went up two ratios w/ Iori, and then lost it. I ate my crow, shook the guys hand and moved on. I still get shit for that, and I deserve it. Not so much shit that I was an ass, but that I didn’t win the rematch.
If I’m aware, you were at Hagerstown, MD and at Dunellen, New Jersey, neither of those places being in VA… but I digress. I’m assuming you messed up your facts AGAIN, and this is the Hagerstown tourney you’re talking about. If you recall right, it was a console tourney, and there were controller converters involved… I reset the game to REMAP my buttons cuz they were all over the place. Would you play a match with the buttons in the wrong place? B/C the buttons weren’t labeled or anything, I had to guess. I guessed wrong a couple of times. Did your friend want to play me with mismapped buttons?
And you play on the East Coast right?? And you’re bitching about people talking during your fight?? And then you say to Bmore you have the right to speak in a public forum? Well I have the right to speak in a public arcade. I dont ever recall Ricky bitching about ECC 2000 and people “Talking during the match”… Sure the Entire WC bitched… but I don’t recall Ricky bitching. And here you are talking about one guy ruining your concentration. All the concentration in the world wasn’t going to help you win against Arturo, kid.
it’s in bold fucking print that I analyzed my loss, and thought of counters. Why do you lie so much? Do you like to lie? Does lying deeply satisfy you? Or is it the being proved wrong notion of it? I did in fact analyze my loss. And I thought about Iori vs RC Ball. Because that is the reason I lost the match to you. I never really thought about that situation before, and before I knew it, I was dead. You were getting dominated for the rest of the match, but the first round lead was the difference in pulling it out. Congrats, you won a 1 game match in which your opponent simply didn’t have time to adjust to a sitiuation. Congrats. Too bad it’s a 1 game match, no chance for me to eliminate the obvious counter match (Iori vs. Blanka starting) from my team. I lost that day, and came up with strategies to counter that.
As far as posting like I know everything… Look at the top of this thread. I’m asking for HELP b/c I don’t KNOW EVERYTHING about Chun Li vs Vega. God damn, that’s another lie you’ve told. Why make it so easy though and be proved wrong in the very thread that you a posting the lie? Because if I OBVIOUSLY knew everything, why bother asking for help?
As for leaving Hagerstown early, that was not because of any sore loser aspect of me from the tournament. I only stayed as long as I did b/c my friend was still in CvS2, and he rode with me. I do not really want to get into it (more drama), but suffice it to say, I had a mild disagreement with the house owner about things. I found it best to leave early. Here again, you assume something about my character based on very little actual knowledge of the incident.
In summary, instead of submitting actual REASONS or PROOF that i have rigged a tourney, you basically admitting you were wrong and that you had lied. Then you throw out numerous lies about my character insinuating that I’m an awful person. Your post in a nutshell "Yes I lied, and you never rigged a tourney, but these are the reasons I don’t like you, and you’re a sore loser."
Unfortunately for you, I don’t give a damn if you don’t like me. I do gave a damn when people create slander about me w/ no clue what the hell is going on. So, don’t do it again.
If you are an adult like you claim to be, maybe you should stop believing in the fairy tales you’re telling everyone.
Don’t instigate. You’re just proving Kang’s whole attitude point correct. Plus, maybe that’s what he meant… maybe it wasn’t. I’ve met both KCXJ and BChun and they’re both hella nice people. James especially (No I’m not mexican -_-.) You should take a chill pill or something and calm down. That temper isn’t going to help you at all. And this is coming from someone who used to make a living hell out of any situation. I used to get pissed really easily and no one wanted to be around me. You’re just doing yourself harm. Just some advice.
Sure all Chun needs is a strong, but Vega won’t get hit if he’s like almost full-screen away. 