This string still works… you just have to commit to it 1 attack earlier. Release TAP during 2nd c.jab (which is not cancellable), then do c.strong->dash upper.
re:Fei
The thing I don’t like about new chicken wing is that any time you do it against Gief or Hawk, it is like you just ticked yourself. As far as I can tell, SPD is 50/50 after chicken wing (blocked or hit), so basically it comes down to Fei either doing a flame kick or not and hoping that he guessed right on SPD attempt. This is, put rather simply, f’ing stupid.
The entire point of the whole knockdown+juggle change that was made to moves like Ken’s fierce DP, RH flame kick, Tiger Knee, Honda super, etc. was that you don’t get punished for successfully landing an attack. Fei is in a decidedly disadvantaged position after landing chicken wing on Gief or Hawk. I haven’t fought against a Honda that’s attempted this (I don’t know if the range works out the same), but if Honda can negative edge Ochio after a chicken wing, Fei is essentially losing life on every chicken wing attempt, “successful” or not.
Here’s the thing: I have no problem with balancing the game, but then why does Claw get divecancel? Why does Sim get better Yoga Blast? Neither of those characters were any worse than Boxer, and Boxer got nothing.
Sirlin said it was due to time constraints, but who cares? He’s still better than most of the cast. All the top tier characters got very very minor buffs, and so did boxer. The changes to headbutt is a nerf as far as recovery goes, but a buff as far as range goes. Not to mention plenty of low tier characters got just as many nerfs as they did buffs, so I don’t see why it’s such a big deal that boxer didn’t get anything.
Almost all of the lower-tier characters got exactly one nerf (knee bash damage, Cannon Spike recovery, Typhoon whiff animation, etc.) or none at all, tossed in with a grab bag of buffs.
Boxer got one change that is most charitably described as a sidegrade (headbutt range/recovery) and a bunch of very significant nerfs (throw range, throw damage, super damage).
It’s hard to accept the “time constraints” card for a game that had an additional year of art-related delay, but even if you do, all that that means is that some characters were more of a priority than others. Chun is a pretty strong character too, and yet there seemed to be plenty of time to give her silly new SBK toys.
Fei Long got all the frame advantage eliminated from his chicken wing which not only means he can’t combo after it, but there’s also a chance their opponent can throw him afterwards. T Hawk lost the knock down from his hawk dive which a lot of the T Hawk players are angry about. Cammy lost jumping strong priority to accommodate Dhalsim of all characters. (Funny how it’s not okay for Cammy to dominate Sim, yet it’s okay for Honda to dominate about half of the non-fireball throwing cast) As I said before Boxer is still an overall better character than most, and I’m sure a lot of people would gladly trade the new toys they got on their character in exchange for Boxer’s place on the tier list and the innate strengths he possesses.
Also about the time constraint thing, I’m just quoting sirlin himself from the article he wrote on boxer:
Seriously, it makes no sense though. Gotta look out for Sim being dominated by Cammy, but who cares about how retarded Honda is with half the cast. Zero sense. I don’t care if Sim had an 2-8 match with Cammy, which he fucking didn’t, he should’ve kept that match exactly as bad as it was because of the tried and true ST doctrine of tough tittie.
Everyone without a fireball struggles or is outright dominated by Honda? Tough tittie. Tick throws are tough to counter and/or reverse? Tough tittie. Dhalsim has a problem with Cammy’s jumping strong? Oh shit, gotta do something about that.
This is the bank bail out all over again. I swear to god. People who don’t need shit always get shit, while everyone else gets tough tittie. WELL I AM SICK OF TOUGH TITTIE!!! :mad: RAWWWWWWWWWWR!!!
Not that I necessarily subscribe to this, but I have heard more than one person opine that certain “favored characters” of the-powers-that-be got a little bit better treatment than other not-so-favored characters; e.g. Boxer deserves heavier nerfing because he is a mindless scrub character, whereas Honda and Sim take Real Skill and therefore do not merit such treatment.
IMHO, Chun and Honda stand out as characters that seem to have gotten a little bit better of a deal than many others.
Agree with you on that one. All Honda really lost was the ochio throw trap, and some priority on his hands. He’s still really good, and he probably gained the biggest buffs out of any character. Jab headbutt travels far, knocks down, and is invincible on start up. Now it also nullifies fireballs. Also it’s odd to me that it’s still safe on block after all the other DPs that were mostly safe on block no longer are (cannon spike, flame kick, headbutt etc.) Not to mention he has floating fierce and trip guard j. lk, yet Cammy lost priority on his jumping strong precisely so dhalsim could use his slide against it. His super is also exceedingly good now, since you build meter across the screen with jab hands against non fireball characters and stock up a 40% anti air.
Chun stayed more or less the same, but lost her neckbreaker and stored super in exchange for a spinning bird of dubious use. I’m pretty okay with that.
Personally, I would not say that Balrog’s jab and strong buffalo headbutts traveling farther is a buff, and would say instead that is a slight nerf. Fierce still travels the same distance that it did before.
The only buff Balrog got, is strong headbutt being able to travel through fireballs. Which is not much of a buff at all, in my opinion.
I read only the first post, so sorry if this has been said, but isn’t this kind of a a buff or maybe a net gain of zero?
Positives:
-Can now use one punch or kick button while charing TAP until 2 count
-Can now do straight or low rush while charging TAP because you’ve got one finger free (or were you able to do this before with some weird finger posistioning?)
Negatives:
-Can’t negative edge dashing upper
Idk, I’m just curious because my friend is starting to get into Balrog.
I don’t necessarily subscribe to this theory either, but it is a bit of a coincidence how Sirlin’s mains like Vega, Honda, and Bison got off pretty well in comparison to some other characters. Bison got zero nerfs, Vega got the fake wall dive, and Remix Honda is well… Remix Honda. I know if I was balancing something I’d probably be a little more lenient on my characters, at least on some kind of subconscious level.
I think at the very least there’d be a tendency to risk a little more for your own character. What I mean is if taking out something might contribute to balance, but end up weakening a character overall it would be a lot easier to err on the side of caution with the characters you don’t like as opposed to the ones you do like. I don’t know if I myself would be able to show the necessary amount of restraint in that situation. By all accounts Sirlin tried his best, and although I don’t think he’d consciously let his personal bias get in the way of balance, there is a sort of a defensive response you would naturally adopt when people ask you to weaken a character you play. (e.g. when asked to take the ochio throw loop out, Sirlin admitted to reacting with the quip that Guile should take 100% damage if the Honda player ever touches him)
Overall though, Sirlin gave his best and that’s really all we can ever ask of him. I just hope if he is brought back for a patch he’ll try to use his own robust play experience he’s had with the game since it was released to maybe tweak it just a tad more. (cough remove stored ochio cough)
How does every thread turn into a Fei Long discussion?
ANYWAY, back to the topic…
Today is the first time i’ve ever heard of “Negative edging”
…no wonder everytime i play Afro & Bones on GGPO they use Rush upper so much…lol
I was wondering how they were pulling it out and using TAP so much.
But yea, this is a major nerf for Barlog.
They should make it so you can charge with 2 buttons and neg edge still(losing the TAP charge of course)
You can’t piano his dragon punch because the teleport command was changed to two punches instead of three. So if you try to piano the usual two button presses for your reversal DP you may get a teleport.