It’s because when you change it to Turbo 2 on the settings, it takes away the speed selection in-game. You just made my day because you confirmed they did in fact play it on Turbo 2. Thank you.
Actually I guess its possible they could have manually set it to Turbo 1, and theres also the possibility the selection option goes away after the first match, but I don’t think it does.
ORLY?! Nice!
I’m wrong, they could have went into the settings and changed it to anything other than the default “free select” and it would make the speed selection go away. But from what I can see, they are playing on Turbo 2.
Yeah American stick, as this was meant to be played!
Oh ok. The search continues. Although, it does look like Turbo 2 to me.
The best way I can think of to confirm this for real would be to use the wayback machine to go back to the last known major involving MvC1 and verify their tournament settings.
So… what was the last known MvC1 major before the move to GGPO/emulation? I checked the B4 era (Jan 2001) on SRK and didn’t see anything, but this should be pretty easy.
I always preferred Xmen vs. SF over either of these titles… I guess licensing screwed that…
Now if only we could get Alpha 3 or CvS2 on XBLA and PSN
Edit: Nevermind, it was B4.
MVC1 was played on Turbo 1. Feel free to ask Viscant on this one, as this was a source of contention between us.
There is an old agsf2 thread discussing it, but archive.org doesn’t have the results page. I can tell you for sure that the California MVC Championship was ran on Turbo 1, but archive.org doesn’t have that page either. Luckily, I do still have the old html files, so I’ll repost them when I get home.
That’s really not that hard to explain. Most online PC gamers tend to set the speed as high as it will go (this is not restricted to fighting games). GGPO inherited its playerbase primarily from Kaillera, and not arcade, and most of the Kaillera players were never involved in the arcade scene. So “fastest turbo possible” became the standard for Kaillera, and then GGPO. (I always found this trend silly; when you are playing with lag, speeding up the game makes the problem worse.)
“Way too fast” is relative; you’re used to playing MVC2 on Turbo 1 because that’s what everyone plays it at. Similarly, since everyone you play against plays MVC1 T2, that’s what you’re used to.
Turbo 1 is the default turbo speed for the arcade. That’s the argument I made 13 years ago, and I’ll repeat it today.
So then we have nothing to worry about! And this thread has been a lot of yammering about nothing, lol.
It’s not exactly yammering about nothing.
Arcade players (like you and I) will jump on Turbo 1 without a problem… but I haven’t been playing the game for years anyway, so it’s not like I’ll be dropping combos on T2 but a one-hit-killa on T1. I’m going to be dropping combos like raindrops on either setting.
The GGPO players always play on T2, so naturally they want to have the default be the setting they are used to. And without a significant contingent of arcade MVC1 players to argue otherwise, every discussion will wind up like the Capcom-Unity threads: a hundred new-school players in favor of T2, and 0 opposed.
T1 vs. T2 is essentially preference. The only objective statement you can make is that the arcade default turbo is 1… but that’s presuming that you even care about the arcade in the first place. Most of the people buying MvCO weren’t playing when the arcade version was current.
Just a followup on an earlier post.
Allow me to direct your attention to the following clip at 3:15:
[media=youtube]pNNaMgHJYpU[/media]
Please note the following:
Macros matter.
MagMan played on arcade stick from the start, and I don’t think he ever used macros. That’s why he mained GWM Stri on ggpo, because he was desperate to counter the macro inf abusers.
Also, it’s not that the game speed is just a preference… It’s that it changes the way the game is played. On turbo 2 you can basically punish venom attack on block even if they are pushed a decent distance away. On turbo 1? Forget it. Crossups on Turbo1? Horrifically obvious.
TaskTool, I didn’t just find that example in a YouTube MVC1 marathon; I pulled it from memory. I’m not sure if you were around then, but everything you said is basically the opposite of what happened.
MagMan was not a GWM/Strider main. In fact, he and T-Kimura used to bash arcade players for “outdated tactics” because of the heavy GWM use in old match videos, and he himself admitted that he had to switch to GWM because he needed to “focus on something easy” when it came to playing for real. See this post (and MM’s reply six posts later).
As for whether or not MM was claiming that macros don’t matter, there’s no need to second-hand it:
Seems pretty clear cut to me.
Oops, missed this part:
Can you please explain (from a recovery frames standpoint) how a move that is safe on block becomes unsafe at a higher speed? If anything, the opposite would be true, since the slower the game gets, the easier it is to react on the first possible frame.
The effectiveness of crossups is a personal preference.
Macros matter if you have been using them for years and then suddenly somebody tells you “you cant use them in this money match”. If someone was devoted to playing on stick without macros, you could easily do the same wolverine and war machine combos and tactics after a while that people are doing simplified with a macro and I still believe this.
It’s difficult to understand and explain. The way it feels like to me, inputting the dash at a certain moment while I am still in block stun so that by the time the block stun ends, wolverine rushes out and hits with an LP, this not only feels impossible on Turbo 1, but the timing that I am used to is off completely. It is possible that I just catch people not blocking on turbo 2, and that it isn’t actually punishable. But I RARELY play the venom matchup with wolverine. I know for a fact its punishable up close. You’re asking me to make 100% perfect sense out of the MvC1 mechanics, when in reality the MvC1 mechanics are fucked up to begin with. Plagued by glitches and bugs, which even Viscant said on the other thread. There is no frame data or anything for this game, and can you honestly really tell me for certain that the game speed doesn’t have ANY effect on the mechanics whatsoever?
Also magman responded on aim:
GoldSamuraiArmor 4:56 pm
no i used 6 buttons always
i missed inputs cuz i was nervous
looked kinda pathetic but
tell spiderdan i appreciate the credit
that he actually thought i used macros when i bodied him lol
i take that as a compliment
i dunno if he has ever played against the best US player in his prime?
wong factor is no joke
you start to realize who you are playing against once he hits you
8 on the Break weekly tournaments back in the day had Turbo 2 on. This is fact and I remember this clearly as I saw it being verified before the tournament started every week. Pretty sure ECC4 and ECC5(ECC 2000) has the same speed setting. It may be preference in the end and not the ‘default’, but at least NY/NJ/CT was playing this game against each other on Turbo 2. Turbo 1 on the Evo demo felt really slow to me in comparison to what I was used to years ago and I don’t play the emulated version at all.
Preppy: last known major I can think of aside from the invitational at B5 was ECC5(ECC 2000). The game was pretty dead at that point tho, since mvc2 had just come out in arcades a few weeks prior to that event. I remember more people crowding around that cab for casuals paying 75 cents per game than people caring about the mvc1 tournament. Just about everyone in attendance not there for Tekken cared much more about that game than anything else going on that weekend, including a 100+ person Alpha 3 tournament.
Cps2 Emulators also run the main CPU at the wrong speed FBA and older Mame emulators run it at 16mhz when it should run at 11.8mhz. Proof of this is the fact that Giga Wing’s intro always desyncs.
You’re free to believe that if you like. The plain and simple fact is that a top online player, who personally claimed that PPP buttons make no difference (all you have to do is just push an extra button! so easy!), was caught on video, in a money match, dying because he tried to do QCF+PP and got QCF+P instead.
Macros matter.
If it’s truly unsafe on Turbo 2, it’s unsafe on Turbo 1. This is a simple, unavoidable fact of the way Capcom’s turbo implementation works.
The only effect game speed has is on reactions; faster speed gives greater advantage to offensive play.
Actually, I specifically said, “You misunderstand. I’m not saying you use a PPP button, I’m saying that if you had one available (and used it), it indisputably would have made a difference (in fact, the difference between winning and losing) in that match. So people that talk about PPP not mattering can stop.”
I don’t particularly care about whether people are using macros or lag switches or whatever on GGPO because, to be honest, the mere existence of them somewhat delegitimizes online play.
Given that we are talking about MVC1, the irony of this comment is stunning.
Why yes, I did play against the two best US MVC1 players (Eddie Lee and Arturo Sanchez) in their prime. In a tournament. On an arcade machine. Without macros. When the game was still current.
I mean, since you asked.