Makoto vs. odd characters

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
1

these are the characters that give me trouble so far…

makoto vs. alex
-ok this match is a weird one, they say makoto wins this match by far, but if you take alex vs. shotos, alex has a way of being very annoying up close…applied to a shoto style makoto, this can be the same fashion…however like makoto, alex has ways of upping your stun meter very well with a few fuckups…although many of his normals are outprioritized by most other characters including makoto, alex can still use the right strategy to outguess the other guy into the right position if all else is left equal…with alex, it’s all about taking advantage of a fuckup by makoto and pressing on and continuing with the pressure, otherwise there’s not really much he can abuse freely…which can also be considered an advantage as well to some…

makoto vs. hugo
-the main urk about this match is that you cannot get close without putting yourself in a 50/50 of hugo’s…doing distanced damage much like most other characters is what seems to be most efficient, but like most other characters, hugo can come back on them with just a few fuck ups…it’s seems like you have to plan things out carefully, some characters don’t have to worry so much with the mobility that is possible, hugo is just one mindfuck after another in the right position

makoto vs. twelve (MOST ANNOYING!!)
-this match has got to be the most endurance based matches under the assumption that twelve is an excellent reader and if the makoto playing him is just relying on the “top-tierness” of the way she just is…twelve has many options in many situations, an excellent get away character, he can get out of many situations and the ones he can’t, he just waits on it…doing damage little by little may take some work, but like a chess player, staying many moves ahead of the opponent is a plus and is beneficial in the end…twelve after all beats dudley, urien, and I forgot who else…I’ll mention it later if I remember

makoto vs. elena
-this is also an awkward match, someone who can go toe to toe in footsies with makoto definitely deserves a mention…elena does damage in the same way alex does you could say, however there hasn’t been too many of these so this is all until further compensation comes into play…to be continued…

makoto vs. yang
-now this match can be tough considering that yang is an excellent punishing character, so you cannot abuse too many dash punches against him…with a slightly weaker defense, throwing in a command grab on makoto at the right times adds to the guessing game as well…the only way to have a sure advantage in this match is to be able to red parry the mantis slashes, which basically forces yang to mixup better, and being a more ground based character as opposed to yun, using yang’s air game frugally (don’t know if this is the right word to use) can help at crucial times as well…basically this isn’t exactly a washout, but looking for fuckups and setting aside assumptions will help alot against yang…

makoto vs. remy
-now under normal conditions which most people would say (i disagree in this case but whatever), makoto sits in the corner, remy follows, command grab, 1 meter, ggpo…but that’s not usually the case most of the time, he’s more of a “get the fuck off me” character much like say…elena, oro, alex, ibuki (don’t know if these are good examples), and so he relies a lot on pokes and a decent throwing game as well as an air tight defense to keep out those that would rush in foolishly (ie. makoto)…breaking his defense takes work but it’s possible…it requires patience much like against twelve…

makoto vs. urien
-now this is an interesting match, it’s basically a risk/reward type setup, you have many options, urien has to setup for the right situation…makoto continues play, any fuckups urien has to watch for and take advantage of…requires patience on the part of urien, but is worth it in the end…urien in the head of makoto can be deadly, and as of now, I’m not sure what makoto can do against this…still working on a strategy, any ideas, feel free to respond

makoto vs. necro
-not much to mention here other than it’s really a race for stun, but not really a race in terms of looking at the battle…necro has to basically get in your face to do damage, makoto is more mobile and has an advantage in that area, being ranged doesn’t hurt, but positioning may be a turning factor mid battle

2

I have problems with yang too. He can walk under you a lot when you try to use tsurugis and all of that and dashing you know obviously can get you in a lot of trouble.

So can you not really punish blocked slashes w/ anything outside of SAI? You have to red parry to do any real damage huh…

3

makoto vs. alex
alex is diet-makoto. don’t be predictable. pay attention to when he’s charging. keep in mind, during his mixups, that he doesn’t have any low combos.

twelve
don’t chase him. just patiently stalk him. he can’t punish anything (even with meter, compared to other chars), so do stupid shit. random parries etc etc… c.hk does well against his instant-air-dash nonsense. stay attentive-- dont give him anything for free.

urien
makoto can do whatever the hell she wants. sit at the edge of her c.mk range and beat all (exception: s.hp) of his moves helluh-clean. up-close game is a little tricky-- if he likes to headbutt out, c.hk him some. keep him guessing. you don’t have much reason to jump around.

co-sign on yang. try to watch for patterns (but don’t get set-up). not being on offense against him just plain sucks. when im lazy or not really into the match, i’ll mash on c.mk and it frustrates them sometimes, so maybe that has value.

…never played against a very good elena/remy.
with elena, take risks and parry her mashing (i guess you could call it footsies) unless she has meter?
and the ‘sit in the corner’ thing against remy works for me. just don’t make it obvious. let him go for that qcb.kick move, play his mixup game, and hope that you do something that leads to karakusa. i dunno.

against necro, making efforts to not get thrown helps a little. positioning really is nasty. he walks faster than i thought -_-. and ex-fukiage his drill kicks & hcf.punch moves for fun if he gets happy with them. i kind of treat him how i play against ken, minus worrying about dp’s. i dunno.

and hugo… this match is frustrating for the impatient (i.e. me). zone, dont get cornered… and as bad as this sounds… guess right a lot (or if he’s impressionable, condition him in certain key situations).

hope that SOMETHING here was of use and/or not ranting about the obvious.
/bored at work.

4

vs. alex, his low roundhouse grants a knockdown, and if you’re in the corner, he has time to dash in and be within sweep distance…this is where it gets scary…

playing twelve a little made me realize what a weak character he is…kinda like yun w/out genei jin sorta, but he has that fast ass EX diving move in the air, it just eats up c.hk from makoto…can’t really jump at him either…it’s pretty annoying but winnable…twelve has to do the most work in this match, but it’s just the character’s design I guess?

with urien, the thing that is most problematic to me is just the corner mixup…but that’s just me, I’m not very good at blocking :frowning: …it’s easier to keep him away, but if he gets a knockdown off a crouching roundhouse or a throw, he can put you in the corner and it becomes very stressful at times :frowning:

vs. yang, playing footsies is a bitch…but what else can I say?

turtling against remy doesn’t seem to work…what if he rushes you down? it’s just constant pressure…not sure what to do next on this…

necro’s not so troublesome…same regarding hugo…it’s just he can make a comeback really fast…

5

oro? Using Tengu? Only really ever played one good one but it would suck to run into another without knowing what to do…basically we got to final round with me playing without any plan whatsoever, I go for a cross up mk and that lil bitch walks under to launch>super- -. Another character too small+fast to cross…any tips?

6

if you’re getting swept too much, figure out why. being able to block/punish(fierce hayate?) it on reaction is very useful. chill out on random dashing maybe… i dunno what your matches look like.

if you’re having trouble blocking high/low urien mixups, concentrate harder-- watch his animations closely. and if that doesn’t work, play some mvc2 to get decent at blocking or something. i dunno. :smiley:

still no news on yang. friends tell me to get ramdom on him.

i wish i could help with remy. i’ve only played scrub-remy’s and helluh-random-remy’s. its hard to get in on the ground. if he’s high-sonic-boom-happy, anticipate(you might be able to do it on reaction, i don’t know) and hit him with ex-hayate. jumping in, if he’s charging down, be ready to parry-- otherwise i usually throw out a tsurugi to beat anti-air and/or make block stun for opportunities.

hopefully somebody else can provide some better-quality information.

7

Hard to give advice w/out knowing specific problem:sweat:

Oro- turtle more and if he’s grounded you should probably be to. Jumping towards a grounded Oro is for the most part a low reward high risk situation due to the chicken combo to tengu juggle then finish with more of the chicken for about half your hit points…

His command grab is punishable on block w/ st fp iirc, most likely see them using this post knockdown via cr short xx grab.

Remy- need to know what the specific problem your having is to help. As for general advice; mix up how you get around lov’s, you can dash or hayate under high lov’s and if you block/parry his blade kick/sa II he will typically land behind you.

ehh i’ll edit and clean up more later

8

the remy that I play against is just too good…he goes toe to toe with the likes of pyro and victoly…his main thing is that he’s in your head…used to suck a lot at execution but made up for it with his mind games, but over the years his execution has become top notch, therefore it’s actually scarier…mostly sticks to the basics tho, no fancy charge partitioning or anything…just basic stuff, he just is in your head 90% of the time…I’d say the only times he fucks up is if he misses a combo, but that doesn’t happen too often I might say…seems to me like more of an endurance match…when he gets to about 5% or less, that’s when he starts going crazy and doing what might seem random to other people, but risky as fuck to me, however it is effective

P.S.
I forgot to mention that if he were to take 3s seriously, I would not be able to beat him at all…he just applies the same game mechanics of other games to this one as well, much like ricky or justin wong

9

VS. Alex
makoto st.rh beats alex’s cr.strong ~ sweep distance, and also stuffs alot of alex’s random ground attacks (a good bit that just doesn’t look like it should hit him). outprioritizes him on the ground for the most part, and if you watch the charging (like mentioned) and can parry his normal/ex elbows, his ground game toe-to-toe is pretty much shutdown. a little trick vs alex’s stomps: if you always attempt a parry towards the direction alex jumps from, if he crosses her up she will block, if not, she parries (this might of been obvious to some =p). if you know about the stun/damage alex’s scary attacks do/are when mak is waking up, it’s easier and less risky in guessing what he’ll do. ie don’t worry so much about a headbutt when you know it won’t stun you - and if the headbutt does hit, he’s really only in favorable position for ex eblow.

VS. Urien
patience (from mak)! I have a hard time with this fight, usually get stubborn and keep jumping at him. overhead can be seen with enough concentration. haven’t played any good one’s in a while, but patience mixed with not jumping on top of/toward him is probably best. st.fierce hurts her, and i probably wouldn’t dash at him unless it’s full range/right outside and not much then even (unless you’ve gotten him trained). jumping at urien is usually just too dangerous, even if you do parry the sphere. even with sa2 mak, staying out of the corner is probably best, cause then you can’t back away from aegis. none of urien’s headbutts will hit an ilde standing makoto.

VS. Remy
for me it’s turtle up and try to get him to advance. if he won’t advance…if you can get remy to stop flash kicking with parry(block)->punish, he won’t have much waking up. generally, mak does a lot of damage to remy, and he doesn’t do much to her. his aa stuff isn’t hard to parry, and with her mobility under high lov’s, you can get all over him. just don’t dash to predictiabally or close or else i usually end up eating random normals.

VS. Yang
this shit is trouble for me. crouching strong and crouching mk (cosign on the annoyance factor like [’__’] said) go a little ways to getting him to jump at you, then parry divekick xx grab whatever. a low fierce every now and then seems to help. damn slashes just eat me up. ALWAYS ROLL =p. it seems most of this match is just reading the opponent. air-to-air jumping rh his face. if they try to walk under her jumps (this is usually a bad decision anyway), but mak jumping fierce seems to stop this somewhat. my success here (not much) is to poke him in the head with jumping mk repeatedly by sj from a distance, and then try to read/train him. usually seems air vs yang is most always better than ground to ground.

VS. Elena
ex fukiage’s all over the place. elena can be karakusa’d out of her normal uppercut. seems like a good rule to always either block or parry high if she’s on you on wakeup. this is kind of stupid but random st.fierce’s beat a lot of her stuff, and annoying her with cr.rh is also a good idea.

VS. Twelve
haven’t played many but jumping rh air-to-air is always reliable here. if he stays grounded i would probably advance with jumping rh tsurugi. keep twelve cornered (granted, easier said than done), but watch for him taking to the air.

VS. Hugo
yeah, this shit is hard. mid range cr.rh will eat him up somewhat, and jumping rh will beat out the air grab sometimes. for me versus him on the ground is limited to about 4 things, cr.rh, cr.fierce (works well), dash in behind his whiffs or hayate them (i need to do this more), or…just repeatedly jump back and forth and rh him in face. once the ground to ground stuff annoys him enough, when he jumps quick st.mk or ranged cr.rh, or dash under. if stuffing his jumps annoys him and he decides to stay on the ground and not throw anything, makoto can usually dash in and suprise him before he gets something off.

On a side note…I hate fighting sa2 Ryu. :looney:

10

about alex, what if he doesn’t ex elbow? ie. dash in throw, the situation is reset, then you’re all “ok he’s gonna throw me again”, then he does either st. fierce or f+fierce, st.roundhouse, etc…guessing games all over again…alex does good just outside of grab range when he’s got makoto in the corner…

remy: he outguesses you 4/5 times, you’re still somewhat even, but 7/8 is a different story…

elena: her back+roundhouse beats command grab

twelve, his ex air diving move beats out makotos jumping tsurugis and any jumping attacks makoto does

hugo: one knockdown by hugo puts the match in his favor if the positioning is right…

11

the thing about these threads is skill level varies on region, so do play types. ive seen some real random shit at tournaments that no one can predict. haha. anyway…

urien: c.mp is pretty good, cancel the hayate. throw him alot. keep him on the ground of course to play the wake up game… stay mid screen if at all possible. kara/reg ex fukiage if he jumping around.

remy: for me, always tough to get in, but once you get in you can force mistakes. I think I’ve seen ex oroshi beat out a flash kick but id have to test it. you can take more damage than he can so try to gt in there, beat his ass a bit and then run if you want and make him come to you.

alex: if he is dashing at you, pop out some c.lk’s to stop that shit. that goes for a lot of characters.

hugo: punish wiffs with dash in throw or hayates. that always works well for me. I try to annoy him with tsurugis to make him want to either jump or do that air grab thing. easy to punish from there.

yang: although he is trouble for me i still try to throw his ass as much as i can, becuase the kids take more throw damage than most. a lot of the time it comes down to the wire with yang so the throws help balance shit out.

beyond all that i just try to stay aggressive and just say “fuck you” to their game plan. the moment i try to be too careful, i start to lose. i just try to keep the pressure on no matter who i am playing becuase i know it is always scary on thier end if mak gets on a roll and in their face.

12

Alex- Really can’t do too much to Mak outside of the corner so he is going to do whatever he can to put you in the corner and keep you there where he can take advantage of his mix-up and force you to guess your way out.

Remy- Damn Id like to see/play this Remy. the only thing I can think of is take the sure thing damage wise instead of the reset. And only risk a guess where its minimum risk for high reward, but im sure you knew that.

13

As far as I know, Necro, Twelve, Oro, Alex, Yang, Elena and Remy are brute-force psychic SA1 matches. Urien requires consciousness about corners and throws (Aegis), and Hugo… well, Hugo’s more scared of Makoto than Makoto is scared of Hugo.

14

As an Elena player(but not a Makoto player) I just want to say that I b.HK the hell out of Makotos. You need to play some mind games if you want to karakusa a good Elena player.

15

I guess I play differently, but here’s what I do: (I’m skipping Tanden recommendations, except one).

Remy - remember, you can dash, Hayate or EX Hayate under the high fireball. You can DP his overhead kick. F+Fierce from a distance beats most of his normals. You can punish a blocked flashkick with s.Fierce, and you can punish a parried flashkick with a DP. He has a lot of punishment strings (like c.Jab, s.Fierce which will beat your move if you try attacking after the Jab) and tons of links. However, all you have to do is hit him 3 times. :^) Every time I watch Remy being played I’m continually reminded how much work they can do just to get hit once and have everything be even again. EX Oroshi is your friend. Don’t be afraid to trade or try teching if you think there’s even a tiny possibility he’ll throw - Remy has nothing that really does any single-hit damage, so trading is good. Lastly, most good Remys won’t antiair with the flashkick (at least, not directly) so jumping isn’t as bad as you think. Tanden is my best bet, because should you have the opportunity you can outright win, otherwise you get lots of EX Oroshis and axe kicks.

Twelve - use Tanden, even if you don’t play it. No joke. Most of the round is landing random j.RH, DPs, antiair s.Strong->DP, or j.Fierce, so just activate and trade with him a lot. Karakusa will never happen, and SA1 doesn’t happen often enough. Even if you get knocked down with Tanden, nothing he has hurts much on wakeup…

Elena - Learn the 100% stun - Karakusa, Fierce xx Abare, dash, earlyish Strong DP, s.Short xx Jab DP. Get good at your meaties, because AFAIK the only invincible wakeups she has are EX DP and super - otherwise, you can do meaties with abandon as long as you mix it up. When you would normally Karakusa, do an EX DP - it hits her on jump, on poke, and any special except DP. It’ll stuff her B+RH until she gets nervous about using it, at which point you can 100% stun. Don’t be afraid to DP her specials, either. Just watch out for your Abare hitting once and going behind her, the distance for using a Forward Abare is weird for her.
Alex/Hugo - learn the Karakusa, Fierce xx EX Hayate, s.Fierce corner combo (helps to use B+Fierce for the last hit, I find). Also, on Alex, you can do EX Hayate, wait a small bit, F+Jab, then dash behind them and crossup when they land. Both Alex and Hugo can be ground crossed-up if they tech-roll, just by dashing. I’d use Abare for both, because the 99% stun double-DP is super easy (no kara required), and on Hugo you even get Karakusa, Fierce xx EX Oroshi xx Abare, DP, DP. Also on Alex you can do Karakusa, Fierce xx Abare, wait, Fierce Hayate (Alex goes backwards), RH Abare, then any ender with a DP in it for full stun without a reset.

Oro - I would use SA1, because it’s hard to hit the Abare without the rest missing. The recovery for his EX DP crouches under your s.Fierce, so use Strong or Karakusa. If you block Strong xx chicken kick, you can DP the chicken kick before you get hit. If you block a chicken kick, you can dash and DP him before he lands. If he double-jumps, usually he’s going to j.RH so you can DP him there too. You can punish a blocked grab attempt with s.Fierce if close, or d.Strong xx Hayate. You can EX DP all of his most-used pokes (s.RH, s.Fwd, s.Short, far Strong, d.Strong). Also an EX DP will go under his close Strong and hit him instead, if you know he’ll do it.

Mike Z

16

good thread…haunts is right…just keep that pressure on…it is scary…i will say one thing short short…12 does not beat dudley…he has no wake up options…dudley out prioritizes everything 12 has…dudley has beast aa’s too…plus 12 deals no damage outside of super…dudley has too, too much damage off of too much shit…

17

any stuff vs necro??

18

yang isnt an odd character matchup its just that he’s the only character that has ground advantage on makoto at all times.

19

thats pretty odd!

20

standing mk= god