crMK is probably the best anti air normal in the game after Sakura crHP
Not even joking, that thing is amazing in AE. It beats all the crazy jump in with very few exceptions.
Low profile anti air are a rarity, which would make them nerfing it not that surprising.
If they nerfed cr.mk the nerf is very slight, I haven’t had it get outright beaten by anything (except Rolento’s j.mp!), but it has traded in a couple situations where I expected to get a clean AA.
It trades in 2012 with some of the better jump normals too. Sometimes it gets clean beat by a very good jump in. One I recall beating most of the time is Rose jump in. Not sure what button she uses but she has a great jump in normal. Better test it with edition select against some known good jump in normals.
I wasn’t arguing that her defense is worse in comparison to others, but the way he phrased it he made it seem like some change occurred that made her defense worse than it was before in itself, which I don’t think is true. Few disagree with you when it comes to Makoto defensively in general.
Dudley j.RH, Cody j.lp and nj.mp, sagat n.mk, will blow up st.mp and are just a few examples. It’s a great normal, but in certain matchups c.mk is a MUST or you’re giving them unnecessary pressure.
TeamSeaSlug and I had a small discussion regarding ultra selections for Makoto this Friday, and I thought I’d bring up my reasoning behind individual choices for discussion. The only place we really differ are some of the grapplers (he’s on the fence for using W, while for some matchups I’m all for it) but everywhere else we have about the same reasoning.
U1:
Abel (No reason for U2 realistically)
Adon (No reason to use U2)
Balrog (No realistic U2 application that U1 can’t beat)
Blanka (Blocked balls are guaranteed U1 punishes, UCW slightly debatable because of U2 chip traps)
C. Viper (UCW is debatable to catch full screen burn kicks for meter, but not reliably worth damage loss)
Cammy (No real escape option with U2, so no UCW)
Cody (Rock feints make U2 unreliable)
Dan (Dan’s fireballs aren’t really a factor, so no U2)
E.Honda (UCW could be used to punish full screen oicho whiffs for meter, but competent Hondas will not do this)
El Fuerte (I don’t see any practical application for UCW here)
Elena (No realistic reason for UCW)
Fei Long (U2 doesn’t cover escapes anymore, which was the only application in this match)
Guy (UCW might be useful to catch Guy players escaping the corner, but the varying distance of flips make it unreliable)
Gen (No practical U2 application)
Hakan (While U2 can punish full screen oil, we have to assume a competent Hakan will never do this and therefore U1 becomes the obvious choice)
Ibuki (Debatable as to use UCW to punish full screen kunais, but since U2 was used as a punish for vortex, and her kunais are considered strikes and not fireballs, U2 will be stuffed each time, rendering it relatively useless)
Juri (Fireballs are too fast to punish reliably)
Ken (While UCW may be useful to shut down the fireball game, I prefer if Ken players throw fireballs at me, as it’s free pressure on FA dash forward.
Makoto (U2 was just gimmicky for this matchup, and without strike invincibility it’s worthless to use UCW)
Rufus (U2 application was only for an escape, no real use now against instant dive kicks)
Sakura (While we can argue the shutdown for fireballs for U2, her fireball is so bad that it’s really a non-factor. I prefer U1 to counter her immense comeback potential.)
Yang (No real reliable U2 application)
Yun (No real reliable U2 application)
Zangief (No real reliable U2 application)
U2:
There are currently no matchups in Ultra I believe benefit from using U2 by itself. My reasoning behind this, is U2 is primarily used to punish specific traits in characters (Fireballs, unsafe full screen specials, etc.) and since the damage nerf to U1, and the overall midscreen damage buff causing Makoto to rely on non-ultra damage as a better source, I don’t see having U2 over UCW as a good option. UCW shuts down the option we were trying to prevent (Again, this is under the assumption you are competing against tournament level competitors who will understand and NOT make these mistakes, so therefore you’re shutting down this option, in a similar deterrent effect to say, Cammy/Fei’s U2s.) as well as putting the additional threat of damage from U1, albeit it being less than normal. Assuming against a competent player you get to land a raw U2 from one of these “mistakes” around roughly 2/10 matches, I would much rather have the ability to land U1 in all 10 then punish an opponent’s 20% chance of a mistake.
UCW:
Akuma (Reliable fireball punish that can easily cover jump forward ex fireballs, etc. and damage from U1 which still ends up being a good amount with Akuma’s health/stun.)
Chun-Li (We can debate this, but if I can shut down her slow fireball game and force her to poke at me, which Makoto can easily counter poke for more damage if your footsies are on point, you have a good advantage here)
Decapre (Can reliably punish escape teleport from the corner, as well as having U1 for damage)
DeeJay (While some can argue that like Juri, Deejay and Guile’s fireballs cannot be realistically punished with Abare Tosanami, with the ability being a charge it’s easier to anticipate in comparison to Juri’s fireballs, as well as acting as a deterrent factor for one of their best tools.)
Evil Ryu (Similar to Akuma, in that it shuts down midscreen fireball game, and has U1 damage. Yes, you can’t U2 low forward xx fireball, but most of the time if you do this against other characters, you’re guessing and not reacting.)
Gouken (Obvious choice. Shuts down fireball pressure which is Makoto’s #1 weakness in this matchup, and allows for the U1 scare)
Guile (See: DeeJay)
Hugo (Your primary source of damage in this matchup will be from effective counter poking, and not ultras as the risk/reward for getting in super close is not in Makoto’s favor. U2 can punish EX Backbreaker as an escape tool on reaction)
M.Bison (U2 can be used as a punish for EX psycho in the right situations, so therefore is worth having in the arsenal)
Oni (Follows the same rules of other shotos, Ken, Evil Ryu, etc.)
Rolento (Can punish EX wall dive escapes on reaction, due to the predictable window of movement he has)
Rose (Shuts down fireball game, and allows for U1 damage. Great application for her having U2 active, as she cannot cover herself with fireballs and has to approach by other methods.)
Ryu (Shotos)
Sagat (I think the way Makoto wins this match with her better pokes, his strength relies in the fireball game. U2 used as a deterrent, U1 for the fear factor)
Seth (Damage nerf almost non-existent with his low health, shuts down fireballs, U1 for damage, etc.)
T.Hawk (Reliable condor dive punish, and U1 damage/fear factor. Again, primary damage in this match should not be coming from ultras, but the fear is worth having)
Vega (Punishes wall dives easily, U1 for fear in an already favorable matchup. Debatable as execution errors coming from missing an EX wall dive are less likely now)
Up for debate:
Poison (UCW may be useful for fireball punishes. However with EX having amazing recovery, and HP fireball having little recovery but long startup which makes it harder to punish, U2 might not be very useful in application. This is assuming that Poison is going to play pretty lame in this match, and honestly I just don’t have enough experience with competent, high level poison play to come to a good conclusion about this.
I’d really like to hear what you guys think about your choices for ultras, and keep in mind this is my opinion and not fact. Please don’t treat it as such. 
i had a long set against acqua just a couple of
days ago. i do agree the corner is hard but not impossible. again you just have to know your options. the toughest thing imo is that damn flip.
I figured out what made me say that, it’s more so that other characters offensive options have been buffed that make her defense worse accompanied with the fact that U2 lost invincibility on start up
Hmm, I seem to be able to AA Zangief much more consistently now (using s.MK mostly). Back in 2012 he used to flat out beat you from the air using j.hp but I think it’s been nerfed.
Yeah they nerfed Gief j Fierce
honestly I have not seen any situations where I think c.mk has been nerfed. The hit/hurtboxes on the new characters are weird though so I could see people having issues there.
Thanks easiertorun09 for posting that list breaking down the ultra options. I agree that U2 vs poison may not be a good choice. Her recovery is awesome if she is being played right, and poison players will know how to fish for U2. I played 100 matches against a poison this weekend and U2 never landed because he know I was looking to do it.
When playing hugo I have used U2 exclusively on the regular.
Ultra 1 is barely a deterrent when you have UCW due to damage scale and ex fuki options. I have been leaning towards avoiding UCW all together and keeping with the best deterrent at max damage. The exception is I think players who do not realize EX fuki is more deadly will be scared of U1 still with UCW.
In Ultra I will only use U2 against Akuma and Gouken for sure. I would consider doing so for T-Hawk and Vega, but I haven’t played either match yet. U1 for everyone else.
U2 nerf is so ridiculous once you actually play with it, damn
There isn’t even an animation, it’s like the only ultra that can get stuffed without anything happening on the screen.
I have to say, I’m not fully mad at how bad U2 is now. I don’t think it was ever meant to be used the way we were. But just making it better for projectiles was not enough compensation. I find it useless against all the projectiles I’d struggle against, with the exception of Gouken.
With that said, I have been using ultra W a lot. I prefer to not have to rely on an ultra for some comeback victory. Now, this will sound like a scrub probably, but I’ve been using Abare Tosanami in that ultra W for a few situations. There are little things like catching Elena healing. Then there is my scrub-like chipping people out with a sliver of health, which I admit to doing a few times. To justify this, I’ve started doing this kill securing method mostly due to the lack of a reversal to begin with. In Ultra, I have already had many people come back against me when they are near death. I’m terrified of getting knocked down by guys like Gief, or even Oni. Makoto isn’t wearing her Life Alert…I just can’t get up sometimes. So, even if it’s very risky and unsafe, I’ve been trying to finish the opponent off at all costs. I’ve been rightfully punished a few times…but I tend to attempt it while the enemy is falling from a jump. I don’t think that’s a real viable reason to use it, and that’s a problem since that’s basically all it boils down to.
it’s useless outside of rfa to combo to mixup IMO. they gave it full projectile invincibility but that was never the real problem with ultra 2 and to be honest, does not make it much more useful than it was before. in fact, it’s even more useless now than ever before! it’s pretty pathetic to watch it getting stuffed by whatever the opponent throws out there at any point on the screen. not sure what Capcom was thinking?
EX Red Focus combo + infinite bar in training mode is really helping me get grounded tsurugi after a focus crumple. Just doing it until I get 99 hits, used to not be able to get the timing after focus.
how are u guys finding the grappler matchups and dive kickers in this version. the axe kick nerf vs grapplers (gief in particular) basically means we are limited to always respecting the grappler even more now and minimizing our offense (but as makoto players this sucks amirite). and we dont have amazing walk speed…so?
She has the wall of normals that can be used. I will miss Ultra 2 in the match ups though.
tbh in the grappler match up i have no problem not taking any initiative at all. i stay at max range for cr.hk to hit him if he isn’t blocking which means if he jumps cr.mk will never miss as an anti air. ya this puts you a little close to max spd range but its not like his walk forward is yuns or something. only match that changed on that front is the t. hawk match up. my mind set is the complete opposite on this one. mind you we cant tsurugi as much still. he’s going to get in eventually so we might as well bring the fight to him. as careful as possible though.
I’ve been using red focus more than I thought I would.
It’s really meter heavy but I like doing stuff like whiff punish something with crMP > hayate > red focus > 3 dash > LP Fuki > jHP for the corner mix ups.
yeah, it’s good because after the mix up you get that extra bar, and the following combo usually stuns! so the result is big damage!