As a Sakura user, EX Tatsu is definitely NOT something Makoto wants to get hit by, especially with her lack of a good reversal and Sakura’s pressure game.
I’m just wondering: how do you deal with adon straight jump hk (or even mk)?
On close range (when he wants to escape a throw or when he see you dash forward) it seems to beat clean every standing or crouching normal makoto have, plus it’s insanely fast (too fast for me to do a fukiage in reaction).
The only thing I’ve found is ninja speed ultra 1.
damn I hate that AA weakness > <
(when I played viper, a straight jumping character = me happy: free ultra)
Fukiage is the best answer, just work on your reactions. Or dash underneath and Karakusa.
If he does it while rising it’s punishable on hit. If he does it while falling you should have been able to react to his jump with the lp fukiage.
Don’t forget about EX Oroshi. Even if it doesn’t punish, he’ll probably get hit anyway.
If he does it predictably you can charge focus, absorb the hk, and then release for a crumple/air juggle.
Adon’s neutral j.mk can be cancelled into air jaguar kick though so the focus absorb isn’t too good. Instead fukiage or dash under throw/karakusa.
Dude, I love your stuff, but I am far too stupid to simply know what is going on with your videos. It would help immensely if there was some sort of input screen because I see this stuff and I have no idea how I would peform these things.
it says in the video before it’s being performed…the numbers are what you see on your keyboards numberpad, i don’t like the system either, i prefer the arrows, but the number thing isn’t difficult to understand if you just look at the pad
I don’t know, I think it is really hard (seriously), did you try it yourself? (reaction fuki lp on adon close range straight jump hk).
In the same situation I can do it on most of characters (even after a whiffed throw), but the angle/hitbox of that move makes the fuki harder i think.
How can I work my reactions?
try EX fukiage.
Btw, try to avoid close combat vs adon until you knock him down, and make him whiff his jaguar kick.
It has a lot of recovery if not guarded/hit.
If you guess a jumping jaguar kick, you can focus lvl2.
I didnt play gamerbee’s adon, but against “normal” adons, that’s what i try to do :o
I’m actually quite familiar with the Adon matchup, as one of my friends mains him. Depending on the range when he does the nj.hk, either lp fukiage or ex fukiage is the answer. Just keep in mind that most meaty setups after you score a knockdown are completely different vs Adon due to his ridiculous wakeup.
Karakusa grabs Adon out of the startup of his jag knees
Anyone have info for the Gief matchup? I’m especially curious for any tips on both wakeup games.
On Gief’s wakeup I play the karakusa/EX tsurugi/high nj.tsurugi/fukiage mixup game.
EX. Tsurugi seems to be my best option, beating lariat, throw, grab, low block, and neutral jump.
Mixing it up, right now basically if I jump and he lariats I do high tsurugi and stuff it. If he jumps to try to head butt me out of tsurugi I fukiage. If he blocks I karakusa, and of course the normal high low game. I was wondering if anyone knows how to take out the guessing game involved. Any OSs? I also often abuse meaty Oroshi stuffing lariat which is nice for a hearty combo.
On my wake up, is there really no options besides jump/dash out or block. I know this is Gief’s sweet spot, but there has to be something more.
Could f.HK being airborn be useful in this match up? It’s worked a few times in my advantage on his wake up making him whiff a grab/ultra.
Any other tips on this match up?
I usually don’t find good zangief player, so my advices may not work on real giefs.
meaty pressure:
- you can meaty throw/karakusa gief unless he has ultra 1 or he’s good (PJFC lariat can stuff it but I never saw anyone do it to me). Meaty throws will beat every special move he have.
- meaty 2lp OS 2hp beat his backdash. Meaty 2lp OS 6hp will beat it too.
You can beat clean (mostly) all his jump forward + move with 2mk.
On your wake up, you can reversal fadc. The focus screw his options select (useless if he missed it ^^).
Oh last tip: don’t hayate lp (even on hit) on gief when he have u1.
After being mollested by my Adon in trainning mode, I’ve found something to help improve a little my fukiage execution time.
Right after his jump in I repeat 1313 (carrefully to not break my guard).
If I see a jump or if he is going for a throw I press lk+lp. (fukiage or teching throw)
Can’t wait to see what you guys can do with her in AE. Great stuff guys!
I found out today that Cody’s b+MP beats every jump in except for high Tsurugi for a trade or EX Tsurugi. Bummer, because if he actually blocks or focuses or whatever, GG Makoto. To top it off, he can jump at her with more consistent results, although s.MK usually works.
Vs Cody I almost never jump. He have way to many anti-airs, plus actually I think that makoto’s ground game (6hp, 2mp, mp) is better than Cody’s… and dash karakusa works so good against him.
His slow walk speed also makes him good fodder for stuff like post hayate mix-up. Ex. Karakusa works pretty well against all his frame trap stuff too, got that a lot today in a Cody session.
This is what I remember offhand from my notes on Cody (as far as jumping at him is concerned):
-Not usually worth jumping at him too much, get a knockdown and then jump as much as you want.
-At long range, whiff early LK Tsurugi to bait HK Ruffian Kick. HK Ruffian Kick and anticipation s.HP beat just about all jump-ins from this range, but Cody players usually hold HP for Zonk.
-If Cody does safe late anti-airs (like b.MP): learn max j.LK range. At this range, j.LK, j.HP, and Tsurugi as a mixup can mess with the timing of b.MP. If he tries to do it early so that it hits Makoto above his head, it whiffs against j.LK at this range, and you can go into jab or tick throw/Karakusa (OS sweep if he backs out of range, backdashes, or does non-EX Zonk.) If he does it late so that it beats j.LK, it will usually lose to Tsurugi or j.HP. Different strengths and timings of Tsurugi can beat it as well, although relying purely on Tsurugi for mixups will just get you focused (early whiff LK Tsurugi, or late EX Tsurugi, can also discourage this behavior.)
-At closer range, jumps other than quick Tsurugi are discouraged except anticipating a laggy move because he can slide under.
-At the range where neutral jump HK Tsurugi will hit, it will often beat or trade with his anti-airs including HK Ruffian Kick, depending on how early you do the tsurugi. Also useful with later timingif you think he tries to Zonk/EX Zonk your pokes. Mixup between crossup j.MK and high LK Tsurugi (activated just after peak, for a non-crossup) can also be decent occasionally at this range, but most of the time you’re just going to want to poke him if you’re this close.
So meaty karakusa is working wonders on his wake up. I just have to remember to look out for Ultra :/. As for OS on back dash, the gief I play absolutely never backdashes on wake up. He will only try to forward dash under my EX.tsurugi (which is very annoying when it works)
FADC on my wakeup doesn’t work too well. Only some grabs whiff, others catch the dash and of course he can green hand or not hit on his jump in and just go for the grab. I’ve been getting pretty messed up by trying this, but i guess not any more than before. 
Any more tips people?
Honestly you should be able to poke gief to DEATH. The best pokes you can use are (in order of usefulness):
-standing/sMP mashing/larietmashing gief- use s.MK, c.MK, t.MP, c.HK, st.MP
–at max range, s.MK is ALWAYS your best option here, because it stuffs everything a standing gief can do. beats lariet, beats all his pokes at max range, SPDs whiffs. at closer ranges c.MK is much better, just due to it stuffing everything EXCEPT SPD. try not to stay close for too long at this point. Then, the only thing he can do is come after you. So…
-grounded/walking/green hand/stHK (to bait for SPD)/c.t.mk mashing gief - use s.MK, c.mp, c.mk, BACK THROW, c.lk, c.HP
Here’s an example of what I mean. Wasn’t the best gief ever, and we’re both a lot better, but you’ll get my point.
–again s.MK is your best option here. it really stops gief from progressing. At max range, it stuffs walking/green hand/any random poke that gief does. EXCEPT his s.HK. For this you need to stuff it while its active or backdash. if you don’t, then expect to catch SPD and free mixup (for him). to beat his s.HK, use c.mp or c.mk depending on the range. Be aware of your spacing because lp SPD has the range we wish we had with Karakara. Seriously. Oh yeah, and make sure to BACK THROW ALL WHIFFED/BLOCKED GREEN HANDS. You desperately need a knockdown if gief is that close… If he can’t get in he’ll try other options…
-jumping/headbutt mashing/jump in MK/splashing gief - use Jump back HP, st.MK, c.MK, st.MP, or Dash under sweep.
–Jump back HP stuffs a lot of giefs air options. I actually have a tally going with my best friend of how many rounds I won with A2A jump back HP lol. Hundreds. For real lmao. If you cannot get off the ground for it, or if he timed the jump really well, at max range, again, st.MK works wonders. Up close use c.MK, and VERY close use st.MP’s bizzare hitbox to beat out his attacks. Yes I know you’ve seen st.MP hit someone behind you trying to cross you up. Well this is one of those situations…
Now you are going to make a mistake. Here is how you can get yourself away from gief
-If you get SPD’d. KNOW that he is most likely going to green hand to close the distance. since you are down he might use HP Green hand. WATCH FOR THIS, because if he uses HP Green hand, you can LK KARAKUSA his ass when you wake up. Fuck regular throwing. you can net some serious damage off of this. from what I’ve seen it beats everything he can do except EX SPD, which i’ve seen like 1 time. But, uh, please use very sparingly.
-again, if you get SPD’d, and he doesnt’ use HP Green hand but uses another green hand, your best option is to back dash. Sometimes you may want to focus xx into back dash just in case he tries to poke you on wake up. This happens often. But more often then not if you backdash on wakeup hes’ going to start using EX Green hand for another knock down. THIS is the knockdown you want to avoid, because besides a complete breakdown in his play, if he just does whatever he feels, there is NOTHING you can do about it but die. READ: if you get knocked down and gief is close to you, expect to die. You have no reversal options, and he has 10+ mixups he can apply to your wakeup. Don’t give up. You have a few very risky options that include wakeup throw/EX (insert special)/Ultra, but i don’t know of a dependable strategy. Yes, fight, but its going to take some luck to get you out. I can’t help you lol.
-You basically want to frustrate gief the way guile frustrates us. I’ve noticed that giefs take a lot of risks because they have so much health. But several pokes later will have them second guessing themselves. This is when you go in for the kill… You have one goal in this fight:
KNOCK GIEF DOWN!!!
Remember, theres another character who does some really nasty shit on the opponents wakeup… who was it… oh yeah, its MAKOTO!! Don’t forget who you are in this match! respect gief but do not FEAR him. You can kill him just as quickly as he can kill you, but you can stun him faster. Here’s what you can do to win.
On gief wakup
-HK Tsurugi all day. Most giefs will try to lariet you on your way down. HK Tsurugi stuffs ALL of his non forward-moving options. I tend to trade a lot with MK tsurugi (don’t use lk at all), so HK is the way to go. Most giefs think that lariet is a get out of jail free card, so they’ll mash it on wakeup. I say you do this 2 or 3 times until they get the point… so now that he’s lost 650 health points (that’s 150 per hk Tsurugi + whatever you used to knock him down :))…
-He might try to back dash. this gets beat by HK tsurugi.
-He might try blocking, we’ll cover this in a second.
-He might try c. MP (anti air), and again will lose.
-Only way he can get out is Green hand. Or if you mess up the timing, he can SPD your recovery. Prepare for this. After a HK Tsurugi or two (esp if he tries to back dash first) in stead of jumping up, jump back and HK on the way down. If he does any green hand you get free jHK, c.MP, MP Hayate combo. If you guess wrong though, you can be punished. Be aware of this when playing your Tsurugi games on his wakeup.
-Another bad situation you can put your self in is having a Special blocked. After any blocked, a good gief will try to SPD. If you are unpredictable about it, they will mess up the timing. So I follow this rule:
–After every blocked special, I do Jump back HP.
-This beats ALL of his options besides perfectly timed SPD (you’ll know because he’ll grab you lol). But if he tries ANYTHING ELSE:
–regular throw, any normal, lariet, whiff spd, green hand, doesn’t matter, you’ll smack them on your way up, and you’ll recover in time for any punishment he wants to dish. AND you just reset your spacing. So it starts all over again.
Once you get gief below half health they will stop mashing SPD so much and start actually blocking. This is especially true if you have way more energy than him. This is because they know they only have to hit you a couple of times, so they have to slow down and THINK. This is your chance to land Karakusa. They are tired of getting poked all fucking day long. Its like fighting Chun li or something. Why the fuck is she just standing at max range and punishing my attempts to get in? That’s Makoto! She’s supposed to be trying to get in on me. That what they’re saying. They’re trying to find something that will work. You can either wait it out or rush his ass down. Up to you. Also depends on the gief’s confidence. But pretty much at this point he becomes Guile with no specials because he’s scared. So Play smart and you should get the W.
I would say don’t use Hayate too much. Use EX Oroshi a lot. Use EX Hayate to punish full screen mashing (like random lariats across the screen). Watch for Fuki opportunities when you’re on your back. They don’t always jump perfectly, and they almost always try to splash or use the knees > EX German Suplex. Learn the match up. Know what works and what doesnt’.
Here’s an older Video, and both of us have got a lot better, but you’ll see the basic idea.
Holy shit! Thanks for taking the time to write that up. Helps a lot. I’m going to really try to work on my poking game.
you better be hitting with the last active frames of hk tsrugi because gief / thawk / hakan can reversal ultra you on reaction.
against those 3 you cannot tsrugi once they have ultra except at specific ranges where it’s too far for them to punish.