you cannot beat rose’s ultra 2 startup EVER, no matter what you are doing. rose can block (beats attacks) and jump (beats throws) immediately, and it’s pretty easy to react to whatever you were stuck doing. i play rose too, and when i fight makoto i just poke / backdash + hk spiral the ever loving shit out of her because she can’t do anything but hope to get a lucky s.mp xx special in there. her slide is safe on block if spaced right, so she can either use it to tick throw, frame trap the crouch tech, or if you have a habit of trying to counterpoke, just raw ultra 2 to catch it. the slide is a huge part of her game so keep track of what your opponent likes to do afterwards. if you catch a tick throw attempt with tsrugi you have to make it count.
keep in mind that rose has a 3f normal (c.jab) so your frame traps and block strings have to account for it. she also has perhaps the game’s only grounded unthrowable normal (sc.mk) so if she’s throwing that out there don’t try to ex karakusa out of trouble … not that you ever really should. soul throw sucks, but ex soul throw more or less works in this game (starts in 6f, easy to safe jump). between slide going under early jumpins and her crouch fierce you really shouldn’t be jumping at her much.
her wakeup game is pretty terrible outside of her godlike backdash - if you block an ex spiral just reversal ultra 1 on reaction to punish. it beats throws and attacks during startup, but like ex oroshi it’s invincibility runs out before the hit so you can technically poke her out of it.
i also found out in training mode that she’s really hard to crossup with j.mk. you have to hit it really early (around the neck/shoulders) for it to connect.
I think the basics of it is, and correct me if I’m wrong here, but if she gets in a neckbreaker and immediately jumps, the kunai will crossup, but if she waits a bit it doesn’t crossup? But shit’s different if she gets a knockdown off a sweep/throw, and you pretty much have to eyeball it?
edit: ^^ don’t you sometimes autocorrect the FA backdash INTO her?
keep your eye on the birdie. ignore the kunai and watch where ibuki is relative to you at all times. i’m pretty sure she can make it ambiguous off of any knockdown (sweep, throw, neckbreaker, spin kicks … not sure if she’s in range after raida) so really you just have to guess sometimes.
sucks 'cause she gets knockdowns off of every jab (sweep or link s.mk xx spin kicks) and does an enormous amount of meterless damage back into knockdown hell if the kunai hits.
As for the Oroshi, especially the EX, I think Rose players, or maybe just the crappier ones I encounter online, are so confident in the U2 as a wake up get the fuck off of me move that when they see you going for an attack on their wake up they trigger the Ultra and go into whatever follow up attack will juggle you.
I think I’ve done it against every Rose I’ve encounter in the last week or so. Not as a conscious tactic mind you, rather due to my issue with unchecked aggression. I’m too busy applying pressure and didn’t notice I’ve beaten them to the point that their Ultra meter was charged.
Re: focus fishers against Makoto, wouldn’t dash -> karakusa be a pretty good way to let people know you can’t do that? She’s got such a fast dash that you can’t really react to it unless you’re just faking with focus a lot (and backdashing almost immediately every time), in which case it’s not really that threatening anyway (even if you stick a poke into it the guy is probably going to backdash).
Focus fishing against Makoto seems like a decent strategy some of the time but I think it’s pretty risky if the Makoto knows you’re focus happy. You can give up huge damage to Makoto for no real reason.
dash karakusa is at minimum (24) 17+7 frames. keep in mind ryu’s dash is 18f, so his dash + grab is even faster (21) yet you never see anyone bother to do it.
when i play against abels who focus like that, if they backdash the karakusa he gets a free step kick into 300-400 damage + okizeme.
Yes, it’s true that if they do guess right, they get a big punish (anyone does).
I don’t think people do dash grab with Ryu because Ryu has better options for beating focus, plus his dash isn’t nearly as scary as Makoto’s.
Not something you should do every time you see sweep-range focus by your opponent, of course. But getting dash grabbed is a particularly big psychological hit. It makes people want to stop focusing faster.
i just thought of an option select… I don’t remember reading it anywhere so someone tell me if this is old. So basically you do Oroshi on them and cancel into super. During the super animation you can see whether they blocked or not, and if they block do HK Karakusa and it grabs (then ultra for 535 damage). If Oroshi hits them just activate Ultra 1 (575 Damage). Thoughts?
EDIT - just tested and it beats mashing jabs and throw.
Just wanted to add c.mk will beat Honda’s butt stomp clean, even if he’s right on top of you. Only time it will lose is in a trade if you time it too late. It’s nice if you can’t react fast enough for a fukiage, or his butt stomp crosses you up causing your fukiage to become an oroshi. c.mk will come out every time instead. It resets him but a decent player will learn not to just throw it out there.
If players with step-back FA, such as Akuma, are fishing for FAs, it’s best not to try to Karakusa them. I’ve had a lot of instances where my Karakusa would whiff due to the step back and I’d get a full level 3 along with combo.
I need matchup experience with a good Makoto. I have a decent Seth and I am just free in the matchup. If anyone on PS3 is willing to play me and talk about the matchup message me or just add me on PSN.
actually ive command grabed rose out her ultra 2 twice before, it was pretty amazing. and @ the oroshi to super thing, cant they just jump or backdash or dp out of it if they block? theres no way thats a free grab.
Nothing in life is free with makoto lol. Its a mind game just like everything else. The super freeze makes them stop for *just a second to think about what to do next to a mad makoto. Do they jump? Do they dash back? Do they SRK? Ultra? Focus? Mash jab? Try to throw? its the choices that kill them. Now, if you have super, i’m going to guess that you’ve put a lot of normals out there. By that time they should be trained to block. Because getting if you do oroshi xx super xx stHK instead, and they mash SRK, you trade, and they take a buttload of damage and stun, while you take 100 damage and minimal stun AND you still have super active…
Concerning FA fishing i think its best to get them used to you dashing back after your own Focus Fishing. Often times I will focus at the same time as my opponent, and just dash back to reset. Sometimes they will do the same. I will also let the focus attack go if they are in range, let them absorb the hit and still dash back. If they let their focus attack go they are in yamase/sweep/TC2 range. Once they get used to you dashing back they will either try to punish the back dash or (if they absorb a hit) try to counter you with their focus attack by going ahead and letting it go. This is what you want, because both of these options require a split second of hesitation on their behalf, and that’s all you need. Because next time if instead of attacking or dashing back you dash forward, and lk/ex kara you will catch them and open up a can. Their only option is to back dash when you dash forward (unless you telegraph it… if you do they can just release it during her LONG ASS DASH). Anything else gets grabbed since they are stuck in place from focusing. Think about it… they can’t jump, if they dash forward they get grabbed, your kara, if done correctly grabs their Focus attack if they release or if they hold it, they can’t super/ultra. They can ONLY back dash. Best of all, if you’ve got good reactions, you can punish that backdash!! That’s right Yamase or TC2 or EX hayate or (my favorite) dash again and karakusa their backdash recovery… OH THE MINDGAMES :).
Have fun with it. See what stupid shit people will do when they realize that you have completely limited their option. Its situations like this where makoto excels! Yeah i know its risky. yeah it can be beat by some stuff. But if someone is focus fishing for no reason (or doing anything else for no reason) that speaks to their skill level. Learn to punish stupidity with setups like this one.
EDIT - Oh yeah one more thing, I just found out that you can Yamase or st HK Rose’s U2 on her wakeup (since that’s the only time they really use it omg). You take minimal damage and they take, well way more than you. Has to be meaty, and Yamase only hits 1 time, but way worth it. You’re in grab range, and she has no ultra so mix her ass up.
I need some tips fighting fei long. I can’t figure out anything for that fight. I just get locked down in poke/rekka pressure with chicken wings thrown in randomly.