From my testing and the information from V-Ryu and Candeisis:
EX Oroshi, backdash, jumping attack is a safe jump on:
E. Honda, except for Buttslam, which is punishable.
Ibuki, without fail.
Makoto’s EX Oroshi is safe jumped, not EX Karakusa, but they’d be pretty ballsy to AA a head-on jump-in with an EX Karakusa. EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK works on all her options; just make sure you’re holding back, to block the EX Oroshi. EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump HK Tsurugi beats all wakeup options except for Ultra 2 - EX Fukiage misses, all other Fukiages get hit, EX Oroshi gets hit, Ultra 1 misses, EX Karakusa misses.
Meterless Dudley.
Seth except for EX SPD. Everything else is safe jumped flawlessly.
Sakura, without fail.
Juri, except for her counter move.
Chun-Li, except for Super. However, it will only hit up to twice, doing 60 total damage in exchange for all her meter. Worth it.
Meterless C. Viper. The only things she can do to get out with meter are EX Seismo feint and EX BK, both of which just let her neutralize the situation.
M. Bison. Seems like every escape option is punishable by Makoto, too.
Sagat, unless he has Super.
Cammy, except for Ultra 2.
Dee Jay, without fail.
Cody, without fail.
Blanka, without fail.
Rufus, without fail.
Balrog, for free.
Fei Long, if he doesn’t have Ultra 2.
Rose, without fail. s.HP xx EX Oroshi, forward dash, whiff neutral jumping attack, MK Karakusa beats Ultra 2 and Soul Throw - loses to Ultra 1 and EX Soul Spiral.
EX Oroshi, backdash, empty jump is reversal safe and baits well on:
Ryu. You can also EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK as a safe jump. This won’t work near the corner, since Makoto won’t push Ryu far away enough.
Ken. You can also EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK as a safe jump. This won’t work near the corner on non-EX DP, since Makoto won’t push Ken far away enough.
Dhalsim. Super and Ultra 1 both hit her safe jumps out of the air, plus he can teleport.
Dudley (if he has meter). You can also EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK as a safe jump. Works in the corner. Also, if Dudley isn’t in the corner, he can get out of this specific setup with Short Swing Blow, any version, for a little bit of chip damage on you. Technically you could Ultra that, on reaction …
Gouken, his counter is not safe jumpable. His EX Tatsu is. EX Oroshi, f+MP, forward dash, MP Oroshi beats or makes whiff EX Tatsu, beats counter and all other normal reversals, loses to Ultras and Super.
Guile, all Flash Kicks and Super hit the backdash, forward jump safe jumps.
Dan. You can also EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK as a safe jump. Works in the corner.
Guy. You can also EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK as a safe jump. Works in the corner.
Vega. You can also EX Oroshi, s.HK, neutral jump MK as a safe jump. Works in the corner. Seems like the only possible thing he can do is backflip out.
Iffy on (because of meter and Ultra options):
Akuma. Empty jump or safe jump can get her into trouble if he has Super or Ultra. God forbid he has both. You can’t s.HK then neutral jump his SRK.
Abel. Can EX TT you, Breathless you, or EX roll out from you.
T. Hawk. The only thing he can do is EX MT; not even Ultra 1 or 2 will work. The thing is, EX MT the safe jump and empty jump, even if you hold up.
Hakan. Totally free normally, but with Ultra 2, empty jump and safe jump will barely still be in the air, and you’ll go for a ride. With oil, EX SPD beats safe jumps.
Zangief. The only way to get hit regardless of Ultra or meter is EX SPD. Same as T. Hawk.
El Fuerte can be safe jumped without Super or Ultra. He can’t even EX Run, it hits him on start-up without armor. You can’t empty jump or safe jump Super or Ultra 2 and hold up, sadly.
Gen. Completely safe jumpable without Super, but with Super, you can neither safe jump him nor reversal bait empty jump.
Doesn’t work:
Adon. However, EX Oroshi, immediate F+LK, neutral jump attack does safe jump him. Harder to time the F+LK than mashing a backdash.
If you see something wrong, tell me about it. If you see something missing, I’ll test it out and change the list.
Tip for Dudley: If you block an EX Machine gun, you get a free U1. I repeat. If you block EX Machine gun, you are clear for Ultra 1. Punch him in the peen. With Dignity.
Man how I hate that bastard. One thing I’ve brought from my Dan experience is to bait Blanka into the corner by backing into it myself, or just out of it. Invariably he will come to you and a well timed jump can serve to punish him and leave you having swapped places.
Thanks, robot Makoto, I was dreading having to sift through all of these threads looking for safe jump set ups :china:
Meaty cr.mk OS lp fukiage vs. Fei Long. Beats wake up chicken wing, loses to flame kicks 'course.
Edit: Also found a way to make fukiage completely viable vs. Vega’s Barcelona Dive. By buffering the dragon punch motion as he hits the wall and waiting for him to move over you before pressing lp, it will auto correct to whichever side he’s on, which is largely irrelevant since it’s straight up either way. If you’re using U2, you can actually buffer two quartercircles and hit either lp or 3k, depending on whether or not he decides to abort and land on the other side of the screen.
I’m still trying to figure it out but it destroys any Focus shenanigans and it is a devastating counter poke against slower moves. I’ve used it to run away a few times and get a time out victory but that is very limited in use.
I’m having mixed results using it to counter rush down pressure, I’ll use the short version when trapped in the corner to deal damage or the long version to get the hell away but I usually reserve that if I fear death from chip damage.
Works great against Giefs that like to use the green hand a lot. I feel that it allows me to beat Seths and Sims that are far better players than I am.
hello makoto mainer i just recently picked up makoto for my alt but i have some problems with her wake up game in ranked matches ppl will jab jab then crossup constently over in over j.hp works on that situation sometimes but it gets frustating. also anyone got any tips on how to get out of pressure if possible
How did you go about discovering those? Like, what’s the mathematics behind creating those meaty setups? They are splashed all over this site, but how do you guys create them. You subtracting X from Y right? Surely it more than just going into training mode and jumping around right? Or am I mistaken? Did I set a record for asking so many questions within one paragraph?
there was a bunch of stuff on the japanese wiki with wakeup frames & setups. vryu translated it and posted it up, i’m just modifying stuff for blanka’s stupid late wakeup.
it’s not a big deal to go into training and figure out new ones if you know a couple. ex oroshi, dash forward, jump+move, land + low short = meaty, so you can shave some frames off by replacing the move in the air with an empty jump and doing a move with more startup on the ground.
That one that you bolded, it isn’t a meaty setup. It is a straight up get nailed in the face by blanka’s upball and then reversal ex fukiage. It works because when blanka hits you in the face with an upball in the corner, he doesn’t go anywhere… causes hes in the corner.
Wow at fighting Rose, such an annoying fight. I can win it but I have to pretty much show 100% respect when she has ultra cause she can use it after virtually any move. Like c.mp > spiral > U2 . . .wtf is this shit. You can’t jump and retaliating makes it difficult because you still have to respect it. So you end up blocking forever and you can’t really maneuver well with the slow walk speed. You don’t want to back yourself into the corner and no jumping. How do you guys approach her at all, im just curious?
I like using st rh in this match up. Space it correctly and it’ll beat her cr mp, or if you don’t it’ll trade in your favor. I really think a lot of people don’t use st rh enough. Then again it might just be that I like to play Makoto as a footsie character.
You do have to respect her ultra, I’ve had some weird instances where sorta meaty oroshi seemed to cancel it out but I think it was
just due to the opponent doing something rather than waiting.