Makoto Strategy and Match-ups

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1041

ok, i’ve found ground move -> option select against chunli’s backdash!

meaty crLP/crLK/stLP -> (f+HP -> ) stMP

if you hit with the last active frame of lights, you will have:
crLK: +6F
crLP: +7F
stLP: +9F

Recovery frames are same on hit/block or on whiff, but as you know, there is a “freeze time” if your move hit.

If you do it well, f+HP wont come out on block/hit.

To try, just record makoto, from far, doing crLK(whiff) -> f+HP. Then, play the dummy, and guard this. If f+HP doesnt come out when you block, you have the good timing.

here is the tricky part. You have to confirm if your light hits.
If you just do crLK -> stMP, it’s mega easy. (thats why I use meaty crLK -> stHP -> feint -> stMP -> EX oroshi. Better :p)
but with the “f+HP” input, you lose some frames because you’re not a robot with your fingers.

That’s why i use stLP for this option select, because you have more frame to push stMP!

When you do meaty stLP -> stHP, it ULTRA easy. With f+HP OS, its almost impossible (at least for me. Need practice :p).
But meaty stLP -> f+HP -> stMP is ok. (you see, 1 frame changes everything. hhaha)

I let you test it, and tell me if you find better things.

Watch out, this OS loses to EX sbk…

stLP has 5 recovery frame. But if you want to meaty hit, you have to add the last active frame (so 6frames).
EX spinning bird kick becomes active at the 6th frame :frowning: you get hit just for 1 little frame :frowning:

I have to find setups for crHP and backthrow, to hit with meaty stLP now.
For EX oroshi, it’s:
dash -> straight jump +normal (whiff) -> meaty stLP

i think backthrow -> LP hayate -> dash -> meaty stLP works.
and
crHP -> crMP (whiff) -> dash -> meaty stLP works too.

But i’m not sure they hit with the last active frame…

1042

If the OS looses to EX SBK why not just use the punish and cut the excess off? Its a guessing game either way.

1043

if chun has no meter she’s stuck with either blocking or backdashing, so there are situations where it’s useful.

1044

WTF can I do about Vega’s J.HP (Claw on) or Dudley’s J.HK? Shit is too free, I wanna break something.

1045

Mp fukiage as soon as you see the jump

1046

gdlk reactions. I know they jump high but in the heat of battle that shit is hard :frowning: oh well.

1047

Not that dofficult vs dudley. Makoto will hit him behind

1048

I’ve found jump back MK or even MP beats dudleys jump in HK, my fukiage trades way too often, and it doesnt seem to be in my favor

1049

not in your favor?
fukiage (trade) -> kara HP fukiage -> EX tsurugi
does more damage than his jump HK :stuck_out_tongue:

1050

Vs abel; -against his f + mk, cr mk from closish range (NOT st mp unless it will hit his body) and cr mp from further out.
-marseille roll non ex version is free to meaties (frame 1-5 vulnerable) some may not know this
-meaty st mp slightly delayed (maybe late OS timing not sure) cr hk/cr mp (can xx) to punish ex roll out and back dash, can also f+fp on reaction in the reverse dir as soon as he crosses behind you.
-first hit blocked ex cod can throw punish if blocked at close range as its -3 (1 frame punish, can plink the throw), hold back and just press it, if he goes high on second hit it will chain and be uninterruptable so not vulnerable to coutner hits, if his goes low you will throw him out of startup.

1051

Yeah, but sadly if you mess up the trade follow up (which I tend to do a lot : /) and they quick rise, you’re in trouble. I need to practice that more.

Also, if you mess up the timing and they land the jump HK, you’re eating Standing RH -> Ex Machine Gun -> Dudley Bullshit : (

Did I mention I hate dudley?

Just played a set agaisnt my friends dudley last night. With Rog I can 30-0 him, with Makoto, we went about even (I edged him out maybe 6-4)

1052

don’t try to Tsurugi over Roses “Soul Sparks” when she has Ultra1, recovery too long, you will get caught if she uses it

1053

i’ve already posted safe jump OS ultra1 against Honda.

Here are some new “tricks”:

(already known): EX oroshi -> empty forward jump -> MP oroshi
Works against every body, but breaks back-charge for honda. That’s a good thing. And if it hits, it gives you +10F (+9F if crouched hit).

But lose to LK buttslam (honda hits makoto while going up).

The solution is:

EX oroshi -> forward jump attack -> MP oroshi

Because you use a jump attack, you lose 4 frames when landing. So, if you hits with MP oroshi, it will be +6 (+5 if crouched hit). So, it’s difficult to combo with ultra1 (6 frames). You cannot react "OH, it’s standing hit, let’s do ultra1.
But stMP will hit both standing and crouching honda.

Advantage to do this is that it will avoids ANY buttslam (going-up), and you can guard when it’s going down. You can use ultra1 when it’s going down too.

But all of this lose to standing guard (of course…), backdash and ultra2. (note that i’m sure you can punish back dash, because you have 7 free frames after your oroshi, before honda finish his back dash).

Knowing that, you can use another setup to beat standing guard and ultra2:
EX oroshi -> empty forward jump -> stMK whiffs -> crHP

stMK will make you move back a bit, avoiding a reversal ultra2. And crHP will hit standing honda.
Every buttslam will whiff while goingup, and you can guard/ultra1 while going down.

To avoid it, honda can crouch guard, or backdash. This time, you cannot punish his back dash due to crHP recovery frames.

Same way as above (avoid buttslam, ultra2, etc), but to beat back dash, you can use crMP instead of crHP

I will try all of this against blanka tonight, to see if you can avoid EX vertical ball.
If it works, thats good, because blanka has 2 more wakeup frames than normal characters (including honda).
So, even if you do MP oroshi 4 frames later, you will be able to link ultra1 in case of hit.

1054

Hmm interesting, so the main idea is to space out out of ultra 2 range right? Cause cr mp and cr hp duck lk buttslam reversal naturally anyways. Testing out the setup to avoid honda u2, the f jump must cross over to get the pushback, ie you will eat ultra 2 if you f jump st mk but stay on same side (happens only for max range ex oroshi). Also found one for backthrow-dash*2-st mk and for cr hp just do IAT, stength on tsurugi depends on spacing.

1055

vs rufus, post guarded EX messiah:
! kara-throw !

low hit followup => get thrown
overhead followup => makoto goes under
fast somersault followup => autoguard
slow somersault followup => depending on rufus timing, he can be thrown too (i did it 2 or 3 times…and get hit a lot of time. Need to practice timing).

1056

Vs fei long, safe jump OS cr lk. If he dps blocked, if he back dash gets hit by cr lk and reset, if he CW reversal it will duck under lk CW (which will cross you up at point blank on reversal otherwise), then you can f+fp or f+hk (for ex) punish on reaction. !

1057

One more good OS for honda, it will beat all options except ultras and ex headbutt but is also vulnerable if they do wakeup throw or mash. Slightly non meaty cr mp (can xx), OS mp fukiage. If lk buttslam gets hit out of startup and reset, if backdash gets hit (sometimes reset sometimes just hit), if lp headbutt beats and if any other buttslam mp fukiage hits. Tricky part is timing it to beat both lp headbutt and backdash but its not too hard, just has to hit on the 4th frame or later after he wakes up but be quick enough to beat lp headbutt. Doesn?t stricky have to be an os either, can buffer fukiage in the cr mp and react to buttslam. Cross him over to make him lose charge if u dont want to deal with headbutt.

1058

i really need advices against feilong.
This guy gives me too much trouble.

defense:

  • i have too much trouble going out of corner. If opponent does only 1 hit LP rekka (and good feilong does), i cannot punish him (-4…makoto fastest move = 4f => cannot punish). I cannot punish overhead too (-4F…same problem as LP rekka)

  • he stays at LP rekka range, mixing rekka and focus (and guard of course). Tsurugi are dangerous because of focus. Jumping is dangerous if he didnt rekka, he will shoryu (i dont have air tatsu xD).

attack:

  • no guarded hayate, crHP or EX oroshi allowed (crLP -> rekka)

  • mixing random chicken wing and flamekick annoys me. If i crouch guard, i would guard flamekick, but get crossup hit by chicken wing (difficult to react with fukiage when close… maybe crMK to go under then punish?). If i stand guard, it’s +0F in case of chicken wing.

any tips? tournament next week, and i dont want to switch on gouki vs him :stuck_out_tongue:

here is an old match against a feilong, but still have same kind of problem.
[media=youtube]TWzjpuFoOI0[/media]

1059

i fought a Long today & got bodied, guy wasn’t even that good, but all his shit is so safe, & he has some pretty damn good pokes, + the DP
anyway since you’re a frame data kinda guy i’ll give you some suggestions & you figure it out

the numbers in parenthesis are this: (frame advantage, counter-hit frame)

1060

@ V-ryu what tournament are you playing in? and is it going to be streamed or recorded?

good luck, I’m sure you will do good.