Cammy is a tough matchup, but you can FA a lot of her moves, a lot of people like spamming her cannon’s, so try n get their patterns down & whenever you think a cannon is coming FA…after you remove that annoying aspect of her game it’s not as difficult
Yea I don’t think Viper is that bad. No idea why you’d want to use U2 though.
Lost, how do you normally handle viper? I was having a hard time guessing which side to block for burn kicks. You think it’ll just take practice?
I ended up using ultra 2 as well since it either got me out of the pressure or caught them being aggressive with burn kicks. Ultra 1 might be better once I can keep them down and keep them in my own traps.
I tried hitting burn kicks with s.mp and c.mk but I might have been mistiming them. I was still getting hit clean.
Haven’t fought too many Vipers as Makoto so I can’t really give a scientific breakdown of the match, but Viper’s my main so I might just be more aware of what she can do and when she can do it.
Having trouble figuring which side to block burning kicks isn’t a problem exclusive to Makoto. It’s pretty much universal unless you have a move like Ryu’s cr.mk that goes under them and lets you recover quickly enough to punish. If you’re certain she’s gonna bk, it’s probably better to focus absorb then dash out of there. Or if she tries to bk right on top of your head but her timing is off, fukiage.
Her pressure can be scary yeah, but it’s full of holes and your normals rape her so you shouldn’t feel like you need to use U2 to escape.
From the matches I played against that viper, it felt like once he knew I was focus absorbing and dashing, he was able to catch me with a c.mk into thunder knuckle after he landed. It became a guessing game for me. If I dashed away, I believe I was safe, but if I ended up dashing towards them, it was a free punish.
I’d like to note that safe after focus absorbing to dash may have just been that he was not ready to punish. I’ll have to test it out in training.
Yeah, I knew the burn kick guessing game was universal. I was wondering if you had some sneaky way of getting out of it with Makoto because I believe that’s where I had the most trouble. I did catch him with a few fukiages but I didn’t do the full follow up since I was surprised it landed.
If I can get some more endless battles with the guy, I’ll try more fukiages and use more normals. Hopefully that’ll work. Thanks Lost.
I find Cammy pretty easy. You just have to zone her out with st.mp. And bait the crap out of her. st.mp pretty much knocks her out of everything. Viper isn’t so easy I don’t think. Not when she’s horizontal to you anyways. Makoto’s lack of reversal leads to rape when she starts doing her thunder knuckle cancels. Another character you have to try and zone out I feel, unless you can get a good offensive flow going. If she gets her THC mix up going you don’t have many options.
st.mp beats it clean. and it’s good on reaction.
Against fei long you can fukiage chicken wings on reaction much like viper bk’s
So what’s the best way to deal with Chun/Rose backdashes? IA HK tsurugi? Seems like she recovers quickly enough to block option selects or be at still have advantage when you os a forward dash.
haha, we have the same problem xD
stMK will hit them, but very strict timing.
I start to stop thinking about OS against them…tired of their backdash.
i just use f+HP when i know they will back dash.
ok, for me, there is really 3 annoying matchup:
feilong, chunli, cammy
against feilong, there are many trick with tsurugi in corner. But you have to put him there… thats not easy…
One thing I noticed about a lot of Fei’s is they often don’t go for that third Rekkaken after the first two are blocked (understandably so, but…), giving you time to react with something in anticipation of Fei’s pause to shift the pressure back to them. Maybe it’s just a lower level of Fei, but I’m starting to think that’s a trendy no-no.
you can use ultra1 after a guarded 2nd hit rekkaken. but…
good feilong are not punishable after any rekkaken because:
- 1hit LPrekkaken is -4F…but makoto’s fastest moves have 4F startup => unpunishable even if they close.
- 1hit MPrekkaken is -6F…but good players use it at max range. Makoto’s move which reach this range have at least 6F startup => unpunishable
same for 2hit rekkaken. If the first hit is guarded and they want to use a delay 2nd hit, they will switch to LP version, which is -6F, but again, too far to be punish with makoto quickest moves…
Every Hayate (even EX) can be punished on block (-4F for the fastest (EX)), with crLP -> rekkaken.
EVEN EX oroshi can be punish (-4F on block). Feilong’s crLP hits VERY far. Yesterday, I was punished after a guarded stMP*2 -> EX oroshi…
What are these corner tsurugi tricks on fei ?? 
You can focus rekkas and lvl 1, if they go for 2nd rekka will be ch crumple, but its hard to react some times.
I found this long time ago
[media=youtube]ZX4sqzg2-Qs#t=0m8s[/media]
but yesterday, i put time into it to try different setup on fei and chunli (because they annoy me!!!)
note: tsurugi must not be done at the very first moment of the jump. You must wait a biiiiiiit. Same height as when you “miss” your instant tsurugi.
imagine you’re in the right corner (makoto - fei - wall)
backthrow (put fei in corner, to the position "makoto - fei - wall) -> LP hayate (whiff) -> MK tsurugi.
if he tries to guard high, he will be hit.
if he tries to guard low, he will be hit.
if he tries to guard to the other side (push left), he will guard, but stays in position “makoto - fei - wall”.
if he tries any reversal, a strange thing happens. The position will still be “makoto - fei - wall”, but fei does his move in the “wall” direction xD. So mega punishment in his back.
EX oroshi -> back dash -> forward dash -> MK tsurugi
if he tries to guard high, he will be hit.
if he tries to guard low, he will guard, but stays in position “makoto - fei - wall”.
if he tries to guard to the other side (push left), he will guard, but stays in position “makoto - fei - wall”.
if he tries flamekick, makoto avoid it, the position will be “fei - makoto - wall”.
if he tries chicken wing, he will go out of corner. Be ready to punish with EX hayate.
both options are avoided if he jumps on wakeup.
i tried it on some other characters. Some things change:
chunli:
backthrow setup:
- MK tsurugi will hit standing chunli
- HK tsurugi will hit crouching chunli
- Both tsurugi beat EX sbk reversal.
EX oroshi setup:
same as backthrow setup
when i did my older test, i’ve found that MK tsurugi (EX oroshi setup) didnt crossup shotos, but work on abel, cody, sagat, rufus.
I have to put time into it to see if it can actually work versus any characters, using different tsurugi, or different height.
Just peeped [media=youtube]lfr9-biPS8Q#t=0m18s[/media].
Seems very late meaty neutral hk os cr.hk beats backdash on wakeup. Haven’t had a chance to mess with it myself yet.
Edit: Aight, just messed with it. That particular os only works after a backthrow, as you don’t have time after anything else to hit the neutral jump hk that deep.
But after a sweep or ex oroshi, you can do a deep meaty j.mp into os cr.hk to catch backdashes, and it also blocks reversal ex sbk.
crHP works too after a jump-in option select. And knockdown. Its better than crHK.
safejump -> option select is not a problem against chun/rose/etc. You can try, its easy.
The problem is ground move (crLP for example) -> option select to catch back dash 
crLP -> crLP+HP…sweep wont hit chunli if she backdash
easy:
safejump:
backthrow -> f+MP -> jump+HK~crHP/HK
EX oroshi -> (backdash -> forward dash)/f+HK feint -> jump+HK~crHP/HK
difficult:
ground option select for backdash (lose to EX sbk) = meaty stHK OS stMK (Will hit with foot finger. lol)
backthrow -> HP hayate (whiff) -> OS
EX oroshi -> LP hayate (whiff) -> dash -> OS
crHP -> dash -> stLP (whiff) -> OS
you can use HK tsurugi to beat backdash AND EX sbk.
for example:
backthrow -> dash -> jump -> HK tsurugi when going down.
How about:
crLP > crLP+HK
or
crLP > crLP+MP
Both of those moves have a little more range than the sweep right? Just an idea?
does not reach her
already tried.
I’ve started playing Makoto recently and Chun-Li is a bitch to fight. Her wake up game is a guessing game really. I couldn’t find an OS that worked well to punish back dash, so I just used Forward HP but didn’t do the target combo cause only one hit connects. I also used Forward HK to sweep during it. Those were the only moves I have found so far to punish back dash. Dash Karakusa didn’t work which made me sad. A well timed Neutral Jumping HK will stuff EX SBK. And of course Karakusa on block.
I’ll be posting here for awhile now so any tips will be appreciated. BTW you Makoto mains are true heroes cause almost every match up feels so terrible. But thats what I like about her.
What are some set ups for a OS cr.lk? I’m having trouble with bison against wake up Scissors.