Yeah, I am thinking of just switching to Cody and praying that some day they will patch Makoto(they wont). Makoto in her current state is the anti fun of SSFIV. A lot of hard work for very little pay off. She doesn’t excel at anything but fails at a lot.
I find with Guile this sort of thing works well, as does a well-spaced EX chop. I like the knockdown, because that’s easiest way to get free mixups on him. Cross-ups are pretty good against Guile, and meaties and safe jumps work well (w/ meaties, obviously, watch out for EX FK). My big problem is that I get greedy and stupid once I’m close to him or have him knocked down, because I feel like that’s my main chance, and then I eat something I shouldn’t.
Ok st rh is a really good move, at distance it beats like any normal on the ground lol, its like a bison st rh, just w/o the range. This is her scrub killer normal, it also shuts down a lot of rush specials, and does 250 stun.
Against Bison just block until he either ends up out of cr.MK range (learn the range! in a worst case scenario you’ll have to block [LK xx LK scissors]x3 first), or until he goes for a throw (tech it!). Both results leave you in the same neutral situation with bison standing just outside his own cr.MK range.
At this point; cr.MK is godly:
- It loses to Bison’s st.MK or EX Psycho crusher, and is likely to trade with cr.MP (same startup)
- It’s safe against cr.LK/cr.MK counterhit fishing (both attacks whiff)
- It cleanly beats every other ground move that Bison has. (most importantly, it beats scissors)
Basically just hit cr.MK every time this situation comes about until Bison figures out that st.MK works, and then start using st.MP as well to smack him out of that.
Throw cr.MK a lot in neutral situations too to stop him getting in in the first place.
No need to waste meter on high cost, high risk, moderate reward EX spam.
If Tsurugi was still able to hit as an overhead, the Guile/Dee Jay matchup wouldn’t be nearly as bad. Like…really. At least you’d be able to get some type of opening.
Anyone with tips against Vega? I swear there’s a fucking Vega army on ranked PSN now. Whereas he was a rare sight in vanilla, now I’m fiding him all over the fucking place. I’m getting sick of fighting him LOL.
Anyway I’m finding it hard to pressure him at all. This is gonna sound scrubby as fuck, but I’m having a bitch of a time punishing his backflips. I dunno if its due to online lag or what, but I NEVER had such a problem punishing his backflips in vanilla. Now it’s like my shits whiffs all day and I get punished. Did they lower the recovery on his flips? Even when I know they are coming and I wait until he’s done he ends up flipping away again.
So what is it? Online lag? Shit reactions? Better recovery? What do you guys use to punish his flips? Hayate? F+hp,hp?
Of course the other big issue I have is dealing with his long range pokes (cr.mp obviously). Dunno what to do against that. Tried FAing it, but most vegas use a ton of cr.lps as well which tag my FA twice before I release.
Abare charged = no teleport for gouki. When you think he will teleport, just buffer qcfqcf, then delay a bit KKK. Makoto will go to the right side. I did (on wakeup) jump HK -> qcfqcf -> delay -> gouki teleport -> KKK.
The gouki i played is a good european gouki and i did very well. (ok gouki was my main in vanilla but…).
Well, that explains a lot. I’ve been fighitng a million Vegas on PSN lately, lol.
And Bronzefist I noticed the same thing. Usually I can punish his double backflip, but lately I cant at all. I thought it might have something to do with Makoto’s slow MP, but maybe it lost some recovery frames(back flip)? The only good piece of advice I can give to that match is Makoto’s S.MP beats out his walldive clean.
yea backflip lost recovery frames, also for the vega matchup have you tried dash while he double backflips then karakusa?
Damn all those Vega “fallowers”
To be on topic, when Vega isn’t in the corner, his flips are harder to punish. That said, you just need to go into training and relearn the timing. It’s possible. Sometimes, I just do a f+MK, HK target combo into it, when I’m worried about messing up the punish.
omfg everyone one of those dudes is one PSN. The sad thing is I don’t recognize any of their names–there’s an even larger army out there!
That explains alot. Not only am I having trouble punishing it with Mak, but also with Gen–who I never had a problem with in vanilla. I shoulda compared the frame data before asking lol.
EDIT: Yeah I have tried dashing and he recovers before me, so I cant punish it reliably. With that being, said I’ve only tried dashing a handful of times so maybe my timing is off.
Yeah I can still punish it in Super, but the timing is much more strict. I’ll try to f+MK,HK combo. I just remembered that I never tried her f+HK against it either. Maybe that will work as well? It’ll give a free knockdown if it does.
omg i so thought i was the only one who felt this way about her. and everything you said is the truth about only winning against those dumb about the match up. i seriously thought she would be kick-ass [she is sometimes] but recently its like a smack in the face. =/
ok so this might be my problem. how do you guys get in with Karakusa? what are ways you confuse your opponent into letting you get so close?
Don’t use Karakusa… Seriously, you shouldn’t use Karakusa until you’ve conditioned the opponent to block.
You do this with frame traps and punishing their neutral jump or backwards jumps. Getting in and landing a Karakusa are not what Makoto is about anymore… I know it’s sad and it sucks, but damn… We’ve been over this a billion times.
Makoto really wants to be at around max st. mp range (I think just to the point where it whiffs). If they want to stick something out, you can tag it. If they don’t and you want to be the aggressor, you can mk or f+mp forward. If they’re afraid to do anything, you can kara kara.
Karakusa is just too slow to land naked in Jabbidy Jab Fighter IV. I’m sure there is info on good and solid ticks into Karakusa (where they can’t mash jab or walk back). Just check the front pages of the stickies… There’s some good stuff about late canceling f+lp on hit into a karakusa, and things of that sort.
Don’t remind me that… =/
I agree with everyone that Makoto is a pain in the ass to play. She is fun as hell against inexperienced players such as myself. But with people with skill, it’s a hassle. FRUSTRATING at most. Even more frustrating when someone intentionally picks Guile after you beat one of their other toons.
With my complaints aside, I found more tips to fighting Guile.
U1 is a good AA against a jumping f mk.
I found that blocking up most the fight keeps you living longer. Save your FADC for Guile’s cr mk or block down and FADC Guile’s second kick on his cr HK. This lets me get some damage off him and a back dash.
Possibly the neutral jump against a Sonic Boom to get over is the best way of avoiding it and follow up in the air with a HK is effective for Guile’s closing in. Otherwise Focus Cancel Sonic Booms from faraway.
One other way I get some Guiles is to bait him to your corner. TRY NOT TO GET KNOCKED DOWN! This closes the gap and allows you to build your ULTRA, and actually land hits, blocked or not on him. Lots of times I lose because I’m trying to catch him. Have him follow you is what I find best.
Guile’s jab forward grab is just plain deadly. Caught me a few times.
Other than that, he still beats me whenever I screw up. Which is a lot because Guile’s pressure is amazing. Matches just go on to the 5 sec marks whenever I fight him. At least I put up a fight…long one.
I’ve played enough Vegas now that i’ve got most of the match down, still slightly confused on all the aerial moves but FA and reading them is good enough to avoid most of it now, i use to go super aggressive to test out all her options to counter Vega, but i’ve tried enough things now to understand the matchup and i block alot more and scare them into not poking. I just charge HP Hayate if he does his retarded backflip move, active frames are great on hayates for punishing those things.
I OS S.MP xx Oroshi > backdash alot rather than just S.MP by itself, though i admittedly use S.MP xx HP.Oroshi so i’m gimmicking it up a bit.
I experimented yesterday with a fair bit of Jumping normals, the J.MP really surprised me does 80 damage, comes out even faster than J.HP and is like her C.MP so really really good range. That might be my new thing to use against players. Frame data wise it’s like a 9 frame AA compared to lp fukiage which is 8 frame + however long your execution takes and longer if you go for kara lp fukiage. So hard to try out this stuff ingame though, i’ve already tanked my PP to 500 before trying to learn her normals inside and out.
Edit: Also, Has anybody noticed we can use a Well-timed J.HP after Fukiage, can lead to some extra mix-ups afterwards, especially since they expect another Fukiage or Tsurugi.
i’ve already been experimenting with that,
if you hit them early and dash under, it’ll cross up. but if you do it at the right time and you start walking backwards. you’ll end up on the same side.
if you hit them late with j.FP and u try to dash under, you’ll stay on the same side
you can also mix this up with using F. MP to slide underneath and mind fuk them even more.
but its so hard for me to land fukiage lol, so sad face