Makoto Strategy and Match-ups

Be careful with HK Tsurugi against Gief Lariat,because if he do it with KKK we get a trade. Against PPP Lariat we can use MK Tsurugi and follow it with a combo (if possible use EX Hayate as a combo ender). Gief players needs jump cancelling to make their Lariat unthrowable,seems strange but most of them don’t do it. Like @Noocta‌ said, better not hit buttons after an hayate on hit: have an opponent normal in SPD range it’s enough for Gief. He can Kara his SPD too,so if your opponent can do it jump away can be useful.

U2 can fuck every GH,even point blank in the corner thanks to Gief wide hurtbox.

Last: if you KD Gief on corner,look out on his options. If he has U2 stay away,no reason to keep pressure on him. If not look out for his backdash,Gief can perform U1 or SPD after that especially if he’s cornered.

The LP SPD nerf helps a lot in this matchup if confirmed.

In use HK Tsurugi against Gief the same way I use it against Chun to beat her EX Spinning bird. You do it very high so only your foot hit their head.
It’s risky but Gief players love to reversal Lariat and rarely see it coming.

Dang, I must just be playing laggy giefs. That MU makes me rage pretty hard if there’s any lag at all

I can use HK Tsurugi too against him,but some smart Giefs use the 3K version during our descending axe kick… And it trade. In the best situation you still hit Gief,but then why not aiming for more damage with MK Tsurugi into whatever?

Makoto’s best far range poke in this match is c.MP. Buffering s.MK into Hayate up close is an awesome idea until Zangief gets hit out of a jump: the whiffed Hayate can be 360’d after he resets.

Edit: I’d also like to add that U2 is probably the better choice against Zangief. It gets Makoto out of the corner, punishes whiffed PPP lariat, punishes whiffed SPD (like if you back dash to avoid one), and punishes both whiffed ultras very easily.

I’m trying it in training mode right now, and I never get a trade against both Lariat.

Backthrow, dash, delay a bit, jump, HK tsurugi when she starts to go down.

yeah, I think it’s the same with chun li, you gotta wait so you hit at the end of the lariat animation.

Good stuff guys. I’m going to try to test some of this out and figure out the distances for poking out his lariats and such. Thanks!

jump back fierce punch is your friend. hits Gief if he is standing and its really hard for him to actually punish unless you’re being really predictable.

Is it just me, or is are most of the spoiler boxes in the OP broken - as in, click on one of the nested spoiler boxes and the outer spoiler box will contract instead. Seems like there’s no way around this, as far as I can tell.

They are. It’s because the forums went on a major shift about a year ago, and most of the OP were made 3 to 5 years ago

This place needs a revamp for Ultra.

Is it to late for Makoto players to say “started from the bottom no we here”?

Hey, back again for some match up help.

How do you deal with Abel’s mix up ?
The fact that we don’t have a throw invincible move makes me panic really hard in this match.

The mix up after his reset off CoD fadc crHP roll stHP roll or after stepkick is just killing me everytime.

The guy was also doing very smart stuff like focus on wake up to beat safejump armor cancelled into tornado throw.

I feel this match is in Makoto’s favor because she gets more out of a correct guess (read) on offense, but you absolutely have to be ready on defense if Abel manages to get momentum. However, you’ll see there is a lot of risk behind every his every option once you have a better idea of Abel’s offense.

Let’s start with defense. There is a guessing (mind) game on defense, but the risk/reward is in your favor until Abel stocks a full U1. EX Oroshi is borderline useless on resets because it loses to throws and meaty s.FP (2nd hit will connect). A good Abel player will block high if c.LP or c.LK whiffs and you’re at perfect range to block a step kick into pressure. Step kick is +1 on block if Abel dashes and it is the best thing he has in this match. Step kick stuffs every normal, goes over c.LK, and whiff punishes almost everything (especially Tsurugis and s.MP). Step kick can be whiff punished but good Abel players won’t let that opportunity happen very often. It loses to focus (just let go and back dash), jumps, and well timed HK Tsurugis. You may not get a punish off a jump, but you get pressure on offensive pressure on your terms. After a step kick xx dash, Abel will generally c.LP > s.FP/tick throw, Tornado, EX Tornado, or throw. If Abel expects an EX Karakusa, then back dash and neutral jump enter the mix. Looking at this offense, your lowest risk escape option is back dash because it beats all of these choices on paper. So why not back dash every time? First, it doesn’t work in the corner very well unless you happen to dodge a Tornado. Secondly, Good Abel players will c.LP OS c.HK > s.FP. The sweep tags back dash and Abel dashes toward to set up the same pressure. If you’re playing a shitty Abel then back dash and up back 4 lyfe. Otherwise, you’ll need to occasionally block and let your opponent know you aren’t afraid to EX Karakusa. Once this standard is established, now Makoto now has to deal with throws. Occasionally trying a regular tech isn’t such a bad idea since it’ll also stuff regular Tornado, but getting combo’d into full U1 off c.LP is very painful. If you are almost certain that a throw is coming, then bust out the YOLO IAT Tsurugi for a beefy punish. Off throws, air resets, and Falling Sky you can expect the second tier of Abel mix-ups: the ambiguous roll. It is possible to react mid screen to which side Abel ends up on (but it ain’t easy). Generally, Abel uses different strength rolls to determine which side he’ll be on. Unlike an ambiguous cross up, the opponent knows which side Abel will turn up which means you’re at a slight disadvantage. All of Abel’s offensive options are the same as after a blocked step kick except now he can meaty s.FP which loses to back dash/EX Karakusa and he can try for a c.FP into U1 which is punishable on block and loses to the same options. It is difficult to react to a cross over roll and get an EX Karakusa to come out fast enough, but it’s possible. I feel blocking is a much better option against roll resets than step kick pressure but figure out what’s comfortable to you. A corner ambiguous roll is the worst position for Makoto because it is practically a guess to determine which side Abel will end up. Against good Abels, I recommend U2 to escape this situation. Use c.MK or EX Oroshi to beat random and chip Wheel Kicks. Change of Direction xx FADC toward is pretty much identical to step kick. If you block CoD, mix up your answer between throw and MK IAT.

Offense-- safe jumps:
Back throw > delayed dash > neutral j.FP // MK Tsurugi catches backdash.
EX Oroshi > toward dash > whiff c.LP > neutral j.FP // MK Tsurugi catches backdash.
U1 > toward jump late Tsurugi > neutral j.FP.
U1 > dash > t.MK > neutral j.FP.

EX Tornado beats a j.FP/FK safe jump but loses to late Tsurugi. Land and throw if expecting a roll. Land and IAT if you feel a throw tech or EX Tornado incoming. Hitting Abel with the business Tsurugi will make him think twice about sticking out an EX Tornado. s.MP x4 is possible on standing and crouching Abel after a deep jump in, but s.MP x3 is probably more practical. You can also c.LP > s.LP > s.MP > s.MP if you love 1-frame links. Abel players love to EX Tornado after blocking a j.FP from above the waist, so answer with an IAT Tsurugi after you land. Abel can punish IAT with focus so don’t be too predictable. Use EX Hayate or a manly dash toward on reaction to focus fishes. Sweep xx roll is throw punishable. Falling Sky is such an awful AA option that it’ll trade with j.FP. Get mileage out of plinked Tsurugis on your jumps as it stuffs c.FP and s.MP AAs. Punish U1 with dash > s.MP x4 if you got crispy links.

Just keep in mind that Abel can only realistically punish smart back dashes with a sweep OS and takes an enormous risk throwing out EX Tornados. If Abel waits to do anything on your wake up to punish your back dash (like just walk toward and step kick) then you need to mix up your defense because there is no reason for an opponent to feel comfortable enough to try that stuff next to Makoto. Also, focus + throw tech is a nice option but I think it’s gone in Ultra so don’t get used to it.

Happy hunting.

Thanks for the very detailed answer. Always nice to see the Makoto forum being so helpful after so many years.

Rewatching my matches against the Abel players, his mix up of choice after stepkick seemed to be crLK OS Sweep into either a standard blockstring or a tornado tick throw. Wyhich cover backdashing, and jumping for tsurugi, forcing me to either take a risk with EX Karakusa, or block and guess when is the tick throw.

Regular Tornado is throw invincible by the way, only the EX one isn’t because it’s trike invincible. It has 5 frames or start up tho, maybe I need to crouch tech during that blockstring ? So that crLK beats Tornado throw on start up ?
What does Abel have against crouchteching ? I guess another stepkick heh. Huum…

Ex is strike invul but can be thrown and normal is throw invul but can be striked. They’re both 5 frame startup. If Abel blows his meter you know that he can’t stop meaties (which means you can OS the shit out of him) just like dudley without meter. Same situation it’s just a much worse reversal due to only partial invul and losing to airborne opponents.

St.MK fuck Abel’s Step Kick for free. If you smell a FA or a COD EX,our TC1 is the way to go:



You can whiff punish step kick with s.MK but it’s a two way street as step kick whiff punishes s.MK.

Played a bunch more against Balrog in endless. It’s crazy how hard it is to play footsies against this character. Between the range of his normals and the occasional armored dash punch eating my stuff, you can really get overwhelmed easy.
I didn’t doo too bad tho, 11 to 16. Seems like you have to take big risks with focus attack to make him respect you.