Makoto Strategy and Match-ups

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
241

I didn’t test backdashes too much, can try that another time. Was just seeing how to get around things that can hit you out of your mixup. Backdash doesn’t actually gain them anything and pushes them closer to the corner.

That said, there are two ways around backdashes with this:

If you’ve got the timing down, due to the forward momentum from Tsurugi you can buffer a cr.MP and be in range to catch their backdash, works against most, might not work against the fastest backdashes (time-wise) but those might be reachable with a s.LK. The tsurugi recovers in time to block an EX seismo (19f startup) and the fastest backdash other than El Fuerte’s is 22f, so theoretically a 4-frame move like s.LK should be able to catch a 22f backdash -if- you have the range to land it after a tsurugi (not sure).

As an addendum to the first point, for the characters who it can cross up standing (Chun Li, Ibuki, Honda, Rufus, Sakura), if they try to reversal backdash your Tsurugi, the Tsurugi will land behind them and they’ll just backdash into your face.

Alternately, if you expect a backdash you can just delay the tsurugi slightly and it will catch them easily and knock them down. This works well if you’ve shown them they can’t use reversals against the normal timing, if they actually do try a reversal against the delayed tsurugi you have a higher chance of losing.

242

Hey Arc-rail, first of all great work on that list really helpful.

I only have one question which might be a stupid one but can’t Dudley just do cross counter to get hit by the tsrugi but then hit you for better damage/even more with ex?

Also I’ve not had much chance to play really but at the start of a round vs Dhalsim Axe kick is pretty safe it seems (I’ve not been hit by any fireballs) and it was stuffing any limbs that where out. Like I say I havn’t gone into trainin mode to test just how good this is but that is what I have seen happening.

Also for buildin meter, if you are so inclinded, Whiffin Oroshi’s startin from feirce, then strong and then jab seems to be the fastest and most ex meter built, also it’s quick easy on the timing.

Sorry if some of this is obvious or not usable!

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I didn’t test Dudley too much because I didn’t spend too much time against the characters who it failed to cross up with that timing. I didn’t mention cross counter because I’m kind of unsure on it. I thought it would work against Tsurugi but that specific timing made the counter whiff (cross counter does whiff against some crossups but the tsurugi didn’t actually cross up so it’s weird.) I think if you could get it to avoid the counter consistently it would probably take strict placement/timing which I probably hit through a fluke, but I can’t be sure without testing (and it would be a lot easier if you could get the move to crossup.)

Also for tall characters in general, safe jump is probably better than meaty Tsurugi. You get more advantage on block. Only thing is you can’t safe jump against certain reversals which is where an evasive Tsurugi would come in handy.

Also I completely forgot to test Dhalsim.

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Ah didn’t think about it whiffing, am going to play super now as I finally have a free house hurray!

Cheers for the reply!

245

Any advice for mirror matches and against Chun-Li.

246

Mirror matches for me have been totally random, but it’s mostly conditioning the other Makoto to block and stop them from back dashing from there you can go for some surprise karakusas and land some big damage.

247

Ughh, I can’t do karakusas well. Its so hard to do for me, but I’ll keep trying as best as I can.

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Good shit, Arc. I hope that info gets posted front page or something. That’s something that needs to not get lost.

249

Okay I just had a match against a bison who would just get me in the corner and do meaty cr.lk into scissor kicks. Without a reversal how do you counter this? Can’t jump out, can’t backdash, can’t jab. I’m lost, any help guys?

250

ex oroshi?

Or just block and wait it out. They can’t do it forever and eventually you’ll get achance to escape.

251

I’m like…the official note-taker in this thread. LOL.

252

i was messing around with that and i couldnt find the range that would crossup if they blocked low

did manage to cross up high and apparently theres plenty or leverage if you just wanna dodge the srk tho

253

What I expected, was just wondering if I was missing something. Thanks for the reply.

254

I’ll try my best to help this thread out as i did with the Rufus thread in vanilla.
Im no one big but I can get more advice from JWong and Ken I alot easier than most [since im around their areas]
but anywho i’ll be sure to help contribute to make Makoto Top TIER! :slight_smile:
or at least seem like it lolz

255

im enjoying makoto so far but believe that she isn’t initially strong like many of the new characters in super. Rufus and Chun seem to be big problem characters for me, as I feel that there are no answers to their rush down. however, i’ve been having decent success with her online and have faced a couple of other good makotos so i feel that my play style with her is on key with how shes supposed to be used.

what have you bros been doing against rufus/chun/balrog? what other shitty matchups have you guys been dealing with?

256

Well, her s.mp stuffs a lot of things, hondas headbuts, rogs normal dash punches. Does it beat rufus dive kicks? Still haven’t tried it yet.
The match up against guile and dee jay is just plain stupid, if they dont make mistakes its nearly impossible to get in.

257

How have you guys been employing the tsurugi? I’m pretty comfortable with using it and following up on it but, I haven’t really found any specialized situations or characters where it stands out.

Right now, I’m kind of using an instant tsurugi as a KOF style shorthopping attack to put pressure on or as another way to earn a knockdown and begin Mak’s wake up game. Any better ideas/input/advice?

I can’t say I’ve had particular trouble against Chun or Balrogs yet and I haven’t even fought Rufus once since the game came out. Even so, I have noticed that I have the most trouble with Mak when dealing with hyper-offensive opponents, so I feel you. I’ve had some marginal success stuffing some of Balrog’s rush ins with f+mp, which hits hard and is ideal for characters who rush in on the ground (guy, fuerte, etc) I think that at least one reliable strategy against really aggressive players is to go for knockdowns and work Mak’s mix up game HARD. It’s one sure way to control their movement and nailing them with a few EX otoshis will eat MASSIVE chunks of their lifebar.

This is especially nice for Balrog since players will have a habit of charging via crouch, giving you frequent opportunities for devastating overhead attacks. You’ll most likely be able to sneak in some fierce otoshi’s early on but, the EX version is much quicker so burn that meter if you need to.

258

For Bison, you really have to know the matchup, that applies for any character.

The other player’s been practicing their pressure strings and setups for a long time so you have to learn what works against him.

The best thing to do is get someone to be a target dummy, or just to go into practice mode and test things out. Get him to do his default string and see what you can do against it. Remember that after he does 2 reps of cr.LK xx scissors, he’s out of range for another cr.LK, so this is your opening. Bison players know that and vary what they do after the 2nd scissor. For example, they might do raw scissors, or s.MK, or s.HK, headstomp if in the corner, or whatever. See what works against different things. An interesting thing to note, though, is that after the second scissor, your cr.LK can hit him but his won’t hit you if you’re blocking. Other example options for you include s.MP, s.MK, cr.MK, instant tsurugi.

Also learn your blockstrings because you want to be able to stay on him as well as he can stay on you. I like (close) s.LP, s.LP, s.MP, s.LK (wait), delayed hayate. At the range you’re at after the s.LK in this blockstring is finished, he can’t punish the blocked hayate with cr.LK. Just make sure you don’t cancel the s.LK into hayate because you’ll start the hayate from a closer distance and it’ll be unsafe. You can also replace the hayate with a focus attack, instant tsurugi or EX/HP oroshi to punish him if he tries to poke you out of the hayate startup.

Also for that blockstring, you can easily confirm it into a combo if anything hits, and if s.MP scores a counterhit you can go for a sweep knockdown or f+MP for a safe pressure extender. Also can vary it by chaining s.MP or s.LK into oroshi/EX oroshi, doing tick throw/karakusa after the s.LP’s, or throwing in an instant tsurugi or cr.LK at any point.

Also practice anti-airs. Bison’s offense goes up a lot if you let him jump. cr.MK beats most things easily, and pretty much nullifies any crossup attempt except deep ones on your knockdown. If he likes to jump in with j.HP, I find it loses quite easily to fukiage. He isn’t too hard to hit with it due to his high jump arc. But perhaps the best thing to do is just dash under him when you see him jump. A good player won’t jump unless they think they have the right spacing so just dash and remove that spacing. You might be able to punish him on landing, or you might not, but either way he hasn’t gained anything for it. And if he jumps a lot you’ll probably have success going air-to-air with him, Makoto’s air normals pretty much beat his clean as long as you’re vaguely hitting the right buttons for the spacing. Just don’t get greedy and get s.HK/headstomped.

I don’t think it’s really worth spending meter in neutral situations in this matchup. Your EX reversals have some situational uses, but I wouldn’t try too hard to use them defensively, they’re better used offensively if you ask me. Bison’s usually out of range of EX Karakusa during his cr.LK pressure. EX Oroshi can work, but it’s dangerous to look too hard for an opportunity to use it because behavior like that is visible and not too hard to get around.

Bison’s meterless BNB damage is pretty decent but he doesn’t really have big combos. That can be your advantage in this match. If you can keep things neutral until you get meter, then you gain the ability to gain huge damage off of any single poke. So I’m usually conservative with meter and save it for super or FADC, with the occasional EX move if I feel like it. MK Tsurugi into sweep, Fukiage -> HK tsurugi for 250 if I manage to land one.

After you land a sweep you can jump in with j.HK for a safe jump against all of his reversals. Safe jumping is almost always the best option, but HK Tsurugi on his wakeup can also work decently well if you time it to go over him, but you have to be careful to use the correct timing because it varies depending on the setup. For example, you can get the HK Tsurugi setup off a sweep, but you have to time it differently depending on how close he was to you when you swept him. If you were just about right on top of him, you can do: (sweep), whiff f+MP, hold up-forward, slightly delayed HK tsurugi. If you were near max range, you can do: (sweep), whiff f+LK, hold forward a tiny amount, jump forward, delayed HK tsurugi. Both of those will beat backdashes, avoid reversals, and make him block if he’s standing, but you have to be careful if he’s crouching because it’s easy to time it so that it whiffs him crouching. Mix it up with normal crossups/jumpins or EX Tsurugi to force him to block this setup high.

259

I’m almost using it the same way. Get a poke in, hayate fake it, then go for an axe kick. Basically using the axe kick to beat throws and pokes. Also using it on wake up as a mix up, since it will go over shoryus if done correctly.

I found out vs Rufus that s.MP rapes him and his dive kicks. If he gets anywhere near the front of makoto, just throw out an s.MP and you will beat him clean if timed correctly. This gives you a free reset if you stuff his dive kick. Why is s.MP so gdlk @_@

260

Against most people if I land a sweep I mix up FP/LP Oroshi. The FP Oroshi will stuff everything EXCEPT EX reversals (srk, jesus kick, etc), sometimes it will catch a back dash, but beyond that I have not lost to anything else. A few times I traded with Sagat’s TU but I think that thing has a LOT of invincibility cause I beat/trade with Ryu, haven’t tried on Ken because they always burn EX for some reason. I do the LP Oroshi as a bait to get them to try to get away with a reversal so I can punish them hard.

I’m finding that the more I play and get used to her no one wants to be next to me no more because I get a knockdown I seem to have a good mix up game and I"m still building it. The problem that everyone is probably having is that we are catching up to everyone who has been playing their character(s) for over a year. We’ll catch up though so don’t give up on her yet!