Make it Bloody Rain: The Vega Combo/Tech Thread

Street Fighter V Character Discussion
101

Hello all,

I’m trying to compile some legit mixups for Vega. Turns out that s.HP mixups weren’t legit since s.HP > LP.ASE is a true blockstring. Kind of a shame really.

So here are some great shimmy/throw mixups. (Claw off)

c.MK > Throw or shimmy s.MP > s.HK > EX FBA

C.MK > c.MP > Throw or shimmy combo

C.MK > c.MP > c.MP > Throw or shimmy combo

If I’m correct you can’t throw tech while crouching in this game, right? So Target Combo can always be used to punish throw whiffs, right?

With claw on you can use the same setups and punish with s.HP. Vega’s walk speed makes shimmy’s a critical part of his game since it’s harder to react when he’s so fast.

On a side note, does anyone know of any noteworthy frame traps with s.MP clawless. I know c.MK and c.MP are his go to frame traps, but any uses for s.MP?

Edit: Any shimmied throw can be confirmed into the target combo LK.Crimson Terror mixup we discussed earlier. Pretty hype if you ask me and makes Vega’s throw game terrifying without claw. The more I think about it, clawless just feels so much better.

102

Nice I will certainly use all of those… St.lk-st.mp is a frame trap.

103

@DrKatz You can tech throws while crouching. I went in training and made the cpu try to throw me while I was crouching and I teched every time. Other than that good stuff!

104

When I think of frame traps, I’m thinking of on block, and linking into something more than a lp/lk so no, st mp doesn’t really have much use unless it is a character that has no 3 frame normals, or you are using a light attack to trap afterwards. So birdie, ken, Bison, and zangief fall into that category; they have no 3 frame normals(unless google frame data is wrong again). St.mp is only +1 on block, and can turn cr.mp into a 4 frame normal, which is a pretty good frame trap against those chars.

There are frame traps for our clawless, lp, cr.lp and lk moves. I mean pretty much anything on block that is more than +1 makes our st. lp and lk a 2 frame normal, which means it is a super frame trap. You have to account for the pushback, so the confirm might not be as optimal, but you will still hit them if they press a button. Cr.lp is 4 frames, so I tend not to use it unless I know I was positive on block and I need to be attacking from a crouch. If you weren’t positive on block, and you try to cr.lp a character like R.Mika, she will(theoretically) win in the cr.lp war. Her’s is 3 frames.

Shimmy -> Target combo is godlike tho, and will make people fearful of doing anything but blocking after the shimmy. Then, they are free to get opened up by more throws.

@nappydude st.lk -> st.mp is kind of a frame trap, but I believe it will lose to a 3 frame normal if I am thinking about this correctly, because it only turns our st.mp into a 4 framer. When I am cooking up my frame traps, I usually want my normal to be 3 frames or less after the block. Also, using cr.mp to trap after the st.lk makes more since because on counter hit, cr.mp links into st.mp - > st.hk(target combo). So unless the pushback is too much, this should work. If they crouched, and you get the hit, just link the cr.mp into either a CT, an ex fba, a vtrigger, or a CA(super). You can even go for some crazy mixup because you are more than +4 on a counterhit cr.mp.

There are tons of on hit frame traps, but those are usually for spammers who are looking for gaps in your links. Reversal spammers like Ken and Ryu can get out i’m pretty sure which is stupid but it is what it is. I’ll have to do some more testing just to be sure.

105

I remember reading that reversal spammers can break through frame traps. Primarily because they have startup invincibility. But I suppose it depends when the invincibility kicks in and how fast the startup is.

Anyways, I tend to have trouble with people who wait until I walk forward and mash 3F normals. This would break a throw and beat any shimmy setups, right?

Maybe I’m not close enough when initiating walk up throw, any advice on opening these people up?

106

@DrKatz Don’t just always do a shimmy(especially the same looking one), because it can become predictable. If you know they are mashing normals, hesitate, adjust the range, and whiff punish them with a stronger button. Adjust your timing and and toss out your own 3 frame normal right before theirs. I think smacking them with a stronger button is the better option tho.

The other solution is to adjust your shimmy. Make it quicker, shorter, etc… Don’t walk all the way up to them, there are lots of ways to do it. Get creative with the shimmy, you’ll get the hang of it with more and more practice.

For instance, when you do a jump in attack and you land right on them and they blocked it, the shimmy should be you just walking out, then in, instead of in and out. Vega’s walkspeed is the fastest in the game, so you can play with this a lot.

107

and vs dps

Kinda legit stun setup vs atleast cammy, to lazy to test on anyone else atm. Backroll and delay wakeup beats it, but to do the backroll you have to dash away from the corner not into it wich can be a bit tricky until your opponent figure it out.
Another thing I realised earlier today is that you can’t backroll wakeup from grabs/commandgrabs, and because vegas ex FBA ends with a grab your opponent can only do quick or delay wakeup, kinda neat for setups.

(And chen wrote this on the first post “=== NOTE: If you want to become the OP for this thread so you can maintain the top post to aggregate the thread’s information here, contact me via the SRK messaging system and I will be able to convert you to become the OP for this thread. ===” so someone should do that)

108

Do you guys know where I could find frame data on all of the knockdown recovery options? I wanna know how plus I am after I get normal and command grabs.

109

@DirtyDishes nice setup. I must say that it is quite…dirty? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

But seriously, I like it, and if the opponent had enough stun, and I caught them on wake up with a meaty st.hp, I would use it then. This is corner only right? Looks like it could be used anywhere but I assume the corner makes it harder to react to, and you can option to cross up quicker on the fba.

After the Target Combo I would even consider doing the CT mixup. Crossup meaty on them or stay same side, meaty, hit them with a grab, or even just let the CT hit meaty. You could even crossup/stay same side, and overhead them, granted they aren’t spamming. Lots of mixup potential, you would save meter and still get stun. Just something to think about.

I like the lab work people are putting in here. I wanna see Vega become a strong character. I’m pretty dedicated to him now.

110

@greatlakes_pvp

Corner only yes, if you’re midscreen the ex fba takes way to much time to hit on their wakeup. Another possible starter (because a jumpin is not something you wanna rely on) is CC roundhouse wich also leaves them stunned!

111

@DirtyDishers that is a really nice tech you have there. Takes 2 bars and a vtrigger but it the stun is worth it.

112

Okay guys I have some more useful information. It is a list that you should get familiar with, and a frametrap that works on a handful of characters. St.lp on block into cr.mk frametrap, which will get you a counterhit if they press buttons. The only real conversion after that is vtrigger -> CA, or use the advantage to mixup, but you are fairly far after the hit, so choose wisely.

I also listed those who you cannot(theoretically) use this trap on. You can use this list for more than just this frame trap. This data is good to know. The normal priority system is why our cr.mk will win even if they have a 4 frame normal to challenge. If I messed up anywhere let me know, but I’m pretty sure I got it all correct.

Free to jab - cr.mk frametrap(on block)(clawless)

Zangief no 3 frame normals
Nash - no 3 frame normals
M.bison no 3 frame normals
Ken- no 3 frame normals
Fang no 3 frame normals
Birdie - no 3 frame normals
Dhalsim no 3 frame normals

Ryu standing 3 jab (hits crouchers, but with a little spacing this trap still works)
Laura - standing 3 jab (hits crouchers, you need VERY good spacing for this to work)

*Both means they have a 3 frame normal that will hit standing and hit crouching.

Not free

Chun li 3 frame both
R.mika 3 frame both
Necalli 3 frame both
Vega(clawless) 3 frame both
Vega (claw) 3 frame st.lk
Rashid 3 frame st lk
Karin crouching 3 frame jab
Cammy crouching 3 frame jab

You know, the more I lab it up and check out hitboxes and data the more and more I realize that they have fucked Vega over. I don’t even wanna know who else has a standing jab that hits crouchers, because Vega sure doesn’t. I had marked Laura and Ryu as free earlier, but I had to change it once I realized their 3 frame jabs hit crouchers.

Dhalsim’s jab hits crouchers too, but it is 4 frames. Idk, the more I find out about the rest of the cast, the more I get annoyed. Anyway, enjoy the info, and lemme know what ya think.

Onne more thing, if you are using the google docs frame data, you may wanna stop. Download an app like Vframes. It has all the accurate data. There is a lot of incorrect frame data floating around on the net. The thread we have here also has the correct data, but only for Vega.

113

I use Vframes and can attest that it’s all accurate. I worry sometimes about Vega’s viability since most good players have dropped him. PR Balrog is picking up Necalli now. Graham Wolfe dropped him. The only notable player I can think of still maining him is Myakyo.

I think Vega will have his place with the fastest walk speed and some deadly shimmy setups. I see him evolving as more of a rushdown, frame trap character with claw off. But I don’t see claw on being viable down the line.

114

Bro I’m telling you. We are playing the underdog right now lol. I just laugh at anyone saying hes “great”. Yeah he has lots of tools, but a lot of them are rusty as fuck. I’m at the point where I wanna just go claws off all the time too, because as you can see from that list I made, his strengths lie in his bare hands. It is pretty unfortunate that claw on is already seeming near useless, outside of needing it to force a croucher to stand.

On block st.hp -> ase does nothing but chip damage and push you back. There is no threat of anything if they just block low. If you try to SC you’re opened up free. Thats one point I was trying to explain to RagingStorm

This is just one of those situations where you have to be a MUCH better player than your opponent. I like the char, but PR Rog and Wolfe dropped him for a reason.

115

I don’t know. I considered switching to Nash since Vega feels like a struggle. But let’s keep in mind that we have a lot more to optimize.

For example, I don’t see any Claw players properly punishing DPs. Pretty much every DP should be punished with s.HP > claw switch combos. Not only are these more consistent than his crush counter combos, he can actually get more damage from them. On top of that, he can go into target combo since it forces standing, then LK roll crossup. Very dirty.

Also, there are no Claw players using his V-reversal to punish safe pressure strings. This can net us a crush counter sweep and all sorts of dirty setups. I’m not blaming people for not learning this stuff. The game just came out and Vega feels like one of the more technical characters.

Also, keep in mind that with V-trigger and full meter, Vega can confirm any single attack he has into critical art. Most characters can do this, but not off of any single poke like he can.

116

@DrKatz I am going to start practicing going from clawless to claw on a whiffed dp to punish. Hopefully, there is enough time there to make that happen. Like I said tho, at this point, I am moving towards claws off, cause that stance is clearly superior. The more I think about it, it should be entirely possible to accomplish this. SC happens pretty fast. I’m just praying it works.

I will admit, that I have been getting a lot of mileage off of hit -> vtrigger -> CA confirms. It is one of his best perks, and the reason why I usually find myself with full meter rather than wasting it on other things.

117

I actually prefer claw on vega rather than claw off. Claw on gives ASE, which I find the heavy version is quite good for AA. Once opponents get hit by the AA combo once, they will be hesitant to jump in.

H.ASE > ex.fba > slash > (either into l.CT for cross-under setups or vtrigger for massive damage).

118

Call me crazy, but IMO Vega has 3 Stances:
Claw ON
Claw Off
Clawless
HPxxSwitchclaw is different in every Stance,:
Claw ON HPxxSwitchclaw is negativ on block
Claw Off HPxxSwitchclaw is -1, however switching into Claw ON limits combos
Clawless HPxxSwitchclaw appears to be 0 on block, and this is where the fun begins, his st. LK hits crouchers and because of the +0 on block, trades with 3F normals and beats 4 Frame normals. You can now easily mixup Clawless HPxxSwitchclaw into st.Lk/Command Throw/do nothing.
IMO Vegas best stance is when his Claw is knocked off.

119

That’s really awesome, but seems so wacky and like a design flaw. So he’s a great comeback character once he takes enough damage, hmmm…

Personally, I think they should all be +0 or +2. The mixups would be so amazing. It’s kinda tough to land a s.HP anyways, so maybe it wouldn’t be broken.

120

@DrKatz @BushinGen @greatlakes_pvp
I’m going towards claw off alot more… The main reason is that he can st.mp buffer mk.ct in the neutral play… This and that one hit - v-trigger- CA when the time comes…

I’ve been wondering how do you play Vega and came to this conclusion with this discussion…