they should just pay the winner of the tourney none of this top 3 bullshit.
Top 5? I can see that. Top 8? Too much money out of the pot for the winners. And I’m pretty sure that raising entry fee is the last thing that would work in getting more players to these tourneys.
If a tourney has a sponsor though I can see that being a somewhat different story.
Agreed Top 8 should get paid if not 16. Top 16 should atleast get reimbursed in a tourney with a turnout like evo. I was at evo I registered and I didn’t even enter the tournament. Community shows alot of love and should get some love back. I didn’t care I just wanted to be there.
Definitely true… and that feeling of accomplishment is going to last longer than a $100 bill would. But it’s kind of irrelevant to the discussion, since the feeling of accomplishment will happen either way.
Finishing 2nd in a tournament is a big accomplishment, and people are proud of doing so well and only being 1 person away from winning the whole thing… but few of the top 3 advocates would say that the prize pool should be winner-take-all, and nobody else wins anything. Since the accomplishments are there no matter what, the question is only about where do you draw the line for the payouts in order to have the greatest overall benefit.
This is true, but only because you’re looking at it from the standpoint of already having top 3 getting paid.
Suppose we currently had top 8 getting paid, and someone suggested changing it to top 3. I have no doubt someone would be saying “you’re taking away from those who worked hard to make top 8, taking away their cash and the prestige of being able to say they finished in the money, only to pad the pockets of those who are already getting the most money.”
I’m not saying that everyone who prefers top 3 is doing this, but some of them are arguing for it only because it happens to be the system that’s already in place. I guess the idea is “the current way works, let’s not fuck it up”, but that’s not a good reason not to at least try something different and find out if it can make things even better.
At the point where the format results no longer mean anything… aka top 3. If it were a round robin, or swiss format, then yeah you can get more accurate results and pay out more spots. It’s pretty much why the top 3 payout from a double elimination tournament is where it is.
… Seriously? Your smarter than this. Yes, if I go with your silly strawman, everything at it’s core is killing time. I made my points anyway, I’ll just hang up and listen now.
On an unrelated note though, on some level it’s kind of amusing that people are talking about ‘taking away money from the winner’ like it was some horrible crime against humanity while jpn plays for nothing but bragging rights unless they come to a U.S. tourney.
Sorry, the “accuracy” reason doesn’t fly with me. Here’s why.
- top 8 is already pretty accurate, you don’t get there by sucking
- there’s no such thing as perfect accuracy in tournament results at any level
- 2nd and 3rd place can be affected by things like who happened to run into Justin first
- even 1st place is debatable. Alex Valle was a hit or two away from beating Marn at WCW, a random lucky poke would have changed everything.
- if the 12th best player sneaked into 8th place with a favorable character matchup at the right time and pulled in an $80 prize… is that even a problem? no.
THANK YOU. If anyone wants proof, there it is. Seriously, how can anyone think top players like Justin are going to stop entering major tournaments because of money? Someone that dedicated to the game is just not going to stop showing up because a slightly smaller prize. He used to travel all over the east coast to win $100 from tournaments, how is $1500 suddenly not going to be good enough.
I think only the top 3 should get money. If top 8 got paid, then the winner would get less money. People wouldn’t try as hard to get top 3 if everybody got paid.
i dont mind top 8 but the tourney fees would have to go up for it to work. or get some form of sponsorship cuz right now iys still not big enough to split to top 8.
with that being said im all for doubling entry fee at majors if this were to happen. $10 would be too low
Seriously? That’s your reason?
Just curious, why exactly would it be too low? Going by the number in my first post, the WCW payouts could have been 1500, 900, 600, 400, 200, 200, 100, 100. What’s so bad about those? Did any tournaments other than Evo even pay out that much for top 3 two years ago?
You could always weight it more heavily towards the top… 1800, 1000, 600, 250, 100, 100, 75, 75. Are those payouts really not good enough?
I’m not sure if increasing the entry fee is a good idea… if it was going to be done, going up to $15 would be more than enough, that’s a 50% larger prize pool, going all the way up to $20 isn’t necessary.
just a negative thought on it.
let’s say you do payout to top 16. you might lose a lot of variety in tournaments if so. top 16 isn’t very difficult to get. and if you’re a high level player, you could just choose sagat and try to get lucky into top 16 for payout. whereas top 3 is a lot harder to random into with just using top tiers, so ppl will use chars they enjoy playing since they are trying less on makign top 16 and trying harder to see how far they can get with a char they enjoy.
sorry about not putting that thought into something more organized.
another thing is. why not just run ur own tourney. tourney runners do what they want to do. they set the rules. if you want to see more #'s of payout. just run the tourney yourself.
a discussion on which payout method is better is just pointless. cuz really…how do we know how the payout is going to affect the tourney until someone runs it.
Actually, 2nd and 3rd aren’t affected, because 2nd and 3rd place play eachother and therefore the better player (counter picks not withstanding) wins. 1st place isn’t debatable either, either you win, or you don’t. Alex didn’t win, even though he was 1 hit away from winning, and therefore Marn proved he was the better player that day.
And yes, its not the end of the world if people get paid when they don’t deserve it as much as somebody else, but no matter where you draw the line somebody is always going to fall just short of it
i like this idea but i don’t see how following through with it is going to increase turnouts without really damaging 1st/2nd/3rd payouts. for example a 100-200 person tournament…everyone within a drivable distance will probably come regardless of what the payout is just because it’s a major and there is good competition. however no one is going to fly over because they can now shoot for a small %age of a 100-200 person tournament because they’d lose a lot of money and x top players ruin their chances of a bigger payout. when the number gets bigger, like tournament as big as evo, it still applies; the continent is going to come if possible because it’s fucking evo, but no non-SBO japanese players are going to fly over for a shot at a couple hundred bucks.
this. this guy hit it. my personal suggestion? icons under your name on SRK for top 8, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th for whichever major tournaments. (real credit for that idea goes to arlieth)
I once used a payout scale like this for my tournaments.
It worked fine.
<10 entrants 66/33
10-20 entrants: 58/28/14
over 20 entrants 53/26/14/7
over 50 entrants 50/25/12.5/6.25/3.125/3.125
over 100 48.5/24.25/12.125/6.0675/3.03375/3.03375/1.5/1.5
You get the idea.
Basically you analyze the break points at which if you gave the next placer HALF of what the next highest placer got, would he get his entry fee back?
Oh, obviously I wholeheartedly support this idea, as a tournament organizer.
If you paid out WCW with my scale to top 8 Here’s the prize break down
300 Players (@ 10$ a player)
1st 1455$
2nd 735 $
3rd 360 $
4th 180 $
5th 90 $
5th 90 $
7th 45 $
7th 45 $
Is that really bad for anyone?
Not really.
top 8 sounds good
:lame: a loser is a loser. Why should a loser get paid anything?
Other sports like Golf, Tennis, Football, Baseball, etc has gambling involved and players get a ton of money from advertisements. Video game tourneys is still very underground compared to other mainstream sporting events.
Quite frankly, other than the Grand Champion 2nd and 3rd shouldn’t be paid anything.
It’s like pity money just because you couldn’t get 1st place. You guys have no sense of dignity.
why do people think that a $20 entry fee is a deal breaker.
Do you realize what $20 is?
A lunch with a beer, a very CHEAP night at the bar, a relatively short cab ride, 1/3 the price of a new game. 1/7th the price of a TE stick. (1/10th for us canadians!)
20 dollars is nothing, and if you think people who care about tournaments wont show up over 10 dollars than you are stupid. People money match for 20 dollars on a whim. Anyone who is willing to travel more than an hour for a tourney should be able to come up with twenty dollars.
The only people who will actually not enter are brothers and friends at a tourney who go to support their friends and then think “Hey why not, its only ten bucks.” I have no trouble losing a few spur of the moment entries to nearly double the pot and pay out the top 8 players.
Also people who think that top 8 will make people not try hard… are u retarded? If I go to a tourney and there are 5 recognizable pros that will all likely place top 8, and only top 3 are getting paid… thats demoralizing. Knowing that top 8 are getting paid so theres a chance that if I work my ass off I can get lucky and get some money will entice people to play harder, earlier in the tourney, well then it gives more hope to everyone in the tourney.
I’m tired of everyone acting like $20 and top 8 like they will change he face of tournaments. Nothing will change, attendances will be the same, only more people will go home with money.
If your dead set against $20 entry fee’s, pick up cans and use the extra 10 bucks u make for the rest of your entry. Bums on the street can come up with 10 bucks in a day no problem if they want.
I support the 20$ entry fee/top 8 being paid,especially if the number of entries for tournaments keep increasing(wouldn’t be surprised if even more people enter EVO after SSF IV hit retail). :shy:
It just suck for some of the pros,especially the dreadful 4th place finish.This isn’t the olympics where it’s all or nothing(and basically the ultimate amateur competition in theory).
Being a pro mean that you should be living off of it,as is the case for most pro competitors or performers in whatever sport or hobby(even figure skating).If more pros can get paid by placing at tournaments,it’s just going to motivate them to keep playing and competing.
Just imagine if the competition in the US was as fierce as what it is in Japan? One of the very best player will always end up fourth,which kinda suck.
I do not think pro tennis would be possible if only the top 3 would be paid at each tournament.Even those in the top 16 or 32 get a decent amount of money,but of course people pay to watch these pros play and there’s so much more money at stake.
Ultimately,perhaps this is where fighting game or pro gaming should try to go? It just need more money period if we really want more pro showing us vids since the daily grind of training must stink for the social life.
$20 per game and top 8 payout is the way of the future!!