If this was the case then Sim and Viper would be higher and Ryu would be lower. I’m pretty sure Sim and Viper go 5-5 with Sagat and I think it’s arguable that Gouki can go 5-5 with him too. Ryu and down is like a 4.5-5.5 to 3-7 Sagat’s favor though.
Nice translation Azrael, I just saw this thread and thought I wanna try translating Mago’s post but then saw your post. hehe the most important part:
“Honestly speaking, this is a game where the compatibility of the character and the player make all the difference - so, tiers can?t really be counted on.”
Sagat vs Akuma is easily a 5-5 match up. I am not saying that just because I am an Akuma main either. Akuma is able to throw Sagat off of his zoning game which forces Sagat to play closer in, but Akuma’s inside tools are better than Sagat’s. Not to mention Akuma gets insane combos against Sagat that isn’t available against most of the cast including a near infinite loop.
Even though Sagat’s tools are not as effective against Akuma compared to the rest of the cast, what keeps this match up as a 5-5 is the fact Akuma is low health and Sagat is high damage. So even if Sagat can’t hit Akuma much, he only needs to land a couple good hits.
Neither side runs away with this match up. If the Akuma player gets a ton of offensive pressure there is almost nothing Sagat can do, but if Sagat finds a hole in the offense then the Akuma player is going to eat a ton of damage.
Mago knows what’s good.
Basically, he gets romped on by Daigo all the time, so he realizes tier lists don’t mean squat :lovin:
I think the best way to buff Vega is to speed him up a bit and make his wall claw dive have armor breaking properties.
I find this fairly accurate actual. Honda is definitely up there. Boxer of course needs to go up. 
Abel is definitely be used more atleast to the recent things I have been too.
second that ^^
If they gave Honda’s EX headbutt invincibility he’d be retarted. If they were to do that it’d have to have a special effect. Like not being able to knockdown like Blanka’s EX ball. Having a super fast full screen attack that goes through fireballs (which invincibility would allow) and knocksdown just defeats the purpose of what they wanted to do with SFIV. Which was keep it within the integrity of SF2 and not have a character or universal system that rapes fireballs for free. Honda’s EX headbutt having invincibility would be cute but they need to do more unique things to Honda than just giving him invincibility on shit to make him good. Might as well just give it focus armor or something.
Hell…Honda’s EX headbutt already goes through C.Viper’s fireball. :lol:
Playing the Game > Tier Lists
IMO.
I’d keep Honda the same (he’s a pretty solid character IMO) but improve just these two things to make him have less retarded match-ups:
- faster start-up on far s.HP so that it works somewhat as a decent normal AA
- make ultra invincible to fireballs in all of the active frames. ultra should have the same slow startup but faster moving speed like EX headbutt.
Honda will still have problems with cross-ups in general, but faster start up on far s.HP means he’ll be able to at least trade with most characters’ jump in attacks.
Invincibility to fireballs on ultra and better move speed slightly reduce his really bad match-ups against shotos - but at the same time, it doesn’t help him at all against non-fireball characters.
Thanks Azreal for doing your best to translate Mago’s stuff in this thread.
I enjoyed his thoughts on my girl Chun, seems to be inline with how I view her, so its nice to get some confirmation from a top player that my view was more or less correct.
Anyone know what he meant when he said Chun benefits from the game’s system?
I’d be fine if Honda’s EX headbutt had that stupid fireball absorbency thing that Bison’s EX psycho crusher has. Tiny buff, probably all he could get on his headbutt without it becoming ridiculously OP
I’d like to know also. It’s obvious to understand how Sagat, Ryu, Balrog and Rufus benefit from the game’s systems but Chun Li? Maybe the focus attack and backdash adds to her poking and spacing game? She certainly can’t mash DP to Ultra during block strings or trade uppercut to Ultra that’s for sure.
I was guessing that comment was about her good pokes, great mobility, and especially the fact that she is the only character in the game who is not at frame disadvantage after even a LV1 focus + dash?
Rufus has one or 2 pokes that could equate to some of the better pokes of the game but they don’t do anything for him as far as setting up his offense and are easily beat by better characters’ pokes or specials on reaction. His c.HP works as a way to hit the opponent and still apply some kind of pressure when he isn’t near them but you ain’t winning every match off of c.HP’s godlikeness. s.LK isn’t bad but outside of that all of his other normals are very situational and can’t be relied on like Ryu’s crouching mediums or Rog’s jabs and c.HK. Rufus was built so that most of his normals are shorter ranged and don’t really do a ton for him other than set up spacing for his dive kicks. Which is all he really wants to do any ways. It’s more like the combination of the dives and the footsies (more emphasis on the dives clearly though) that set up his offensive. Just on footsies alone Rufus isn’t a threat unless you’re a complete skill level over the opponent.
Yeah maybe he was just talking about the game’s systems on a very basic level and not necessarily the meter systems. Didn’t even realize Chun’s focus attack was buff like that. That does help her offensive game quite a bit.
It makes chun quite special imo.
She is a lot like ST chun
Its awesome…I’m trying to incorporate it into my offense in a better way.