M. Bison ftw (Dictator Thread)

NKI (Dictator) vs eltwopee (Dee Jay) at NorCal Regionals

@0:42 if Dee Jay doesn’t space his j Jab properly, he can be easily reversal thrown
@1:07 crossup Psycho Crusher in the left corner to get a huge combo, that shit is deadly
@1:15 excellent use of reversal Devil’s Reverse to escape DJ’s crossup (never seen that before)
@1:17 non crossup use of the j Forward (I gotta start using this more often)
@3:00 and of course, all it takes is one dizzy for Dictator to end the match :tup:

NKI is just freaking lethal with Dictator. Many thanks to eltwopee and my apologies, but there are some excellent Dictator strats by NKI in this video that I wanted to share with Dictator players, esp considering Dee Jay can be a tough match.

That DR escape is sick, and it’s all the more beautiful since he’s escaping from DJ’s annoying crossup bullshit.

I’d be interested to hear from NKI about how his tournament record with Dic in HDR compares to ST and his Chun…

Hitting the ball with a crusher is mentioned in the Sirlin article for Blanka. His words are “a well-timed psycho crusher”, so just get the reversal and you will always hit.

If I told you that you can consistently win, rarely trade and never lose against a reversal vertical ball with Bison would you believe me? If you do not, then you would be wrong.

  • Pete

I love finding out that I’m wrong, because I learn something!

I’ve seen someone (I think it was Mavrick) say that jumping in with MK will beat Blanka’s vertical ball as he wakes up, if timed correctly. I’ve personally not been able to achieve it.

Is this what you were alluding to? If not, please tell!

Best,

  • geo

The safest jump in is probably the front end of the roundhouse – though I’m not sure if Blanka can duck it.
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/mbison/djroundhouse.html

I think you need to hit blanka with the front part of the jumping MK to beat the up-ball:
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/mbison/djforward.html

On paper it sounds like the second part of J.:mp: would hit Blanka’s ball with the correct spacing, but I haven’t achieved this either.

“consistently win, rarely trade and never lose” is a bold claim. I hope it is not said under the assumption that spacing and timing is always perfect… i.e. “try harder”

Yes, jumping forward is the move. If you do it at the top of the jump, you are in good shape. You also can’t jump too close or trades become more frequent. If you get some of my matches with Blue you will see it and here is a vid of Yuuvega doing it in ST. The vid starts 2 seconds before the jumpin.

[media=youtube]au63bkfdUbY#t=01m07s"[/media]

  • Pete

I posted that a little while ago, and i originally got it i think from one of Fresh OJ’s posts. You can only use it to bait his vertical ball and punish, if your timing is right you’ll knock him out of it cleanly, but it feels like you have to be too high to combo/blockstring for it to work, so if he blocks instead you’ll probably get bitten when you land, unless your jumps horizontal spacing is perfect. Gouki 77’s post of Yuuvega doing it is a perfect example of the right timing & height for the attack to hit cleanly. Blanka gets the “reversal” message but still gets knocked out of the move.

Interestingly, he jumps in again with j.MK in the same clip, at 1.20, but it looks a little lower than before, the blanka player probably could have traded with him with an anti air that time, but i’d say yuuvega had kind of trained him to be afraid of his jump ins because of the first time he tried to up-ball him and was beat cleanly out of it. Yuuvega’s spacing on this jump in is also perfect, he’s using the very front of the J.MK hitbox that protrudes out past the front of his sprite. He’s close enough to hit with the J.MK (which gets blocked), but also too far away to be in throw range and risk being bitten when he lands, but still close enough to chain with the very tip of a crouching forward and cancel it into safe LP Crusher.

Exactly right, cheers for posting the vid. Like i posted, the trick to it is to be above blanka, and not intersecting with the first frame of the ball. Bison’s diagonal jumping forward red hitboxes protrude out and to the front, slightly farther than his blue"get hit" hitboxes (see scan 3 on rufus’s hitbox post below), so as long as blanka’s hitting frames on his vertical ball aren’t intersecting with bison’s sprite, he’s covered, he’ll hit blanka out of the ball every time. Be above and to the front of Blanka on his wakeup. The only way you’ll trade is if you jump to early or are too far forward, and hit him too meaty, His sprite will then be intersecting with yours and his up ball hits on the 1st frame, so you’ll trade. You need to knock him clean out of the air and avoid a knockdown for you, so if you’re trading hits, time your jump so that you jump a fraction LATER.

Yep, and just be above him and not intersecting with his sprite when he activates the ball. You can see the hitboxes on your post. Don’t be too low or too far forward or you’ll trade.

I get this sometimes when i jump away from blanka with a j.MP on wakeup, or after a blocked LK scissor kick, if the first J.MP doesn’t connect or isn’t blocked, and he vertical rolls to anti air me out of the jump. I hold the second MP till i’m about to land and it will knock him out of it almost every time it happens.

I’ve never seen J.MP hit him clean out of a ball while i’m jumping towards him though, only away from him.

Incidentally, diagonal jumping LK is a great safe-ish normal against blanka in the air. I think it’s as useful in this matchup as J.MP is. Jumping back LK is fantastic at round start, because it puts distance between you and blanka, and can’t be hit by anything he does as an opener. It will land on top of a horizontal ball, sometimes allowing you to go into more standing LK’s, and it will hit a vertical ball cleanly while both are on the way up and give you a knockdown and the initiative at the start of the round. It’s also great on a forward jump if you can get higher in the air than blanka (ie: get airborne first) , it will beat a lot of stuff that’s below it in the air, because it’s hitboxes protrude out and down, below and in front of bison, and sometimes you can even just lucky jump with it against a blanka on the ground, get lucky with a hit, and go into a crouching forward xx crusher or whatever.

No! if you really look at it Deejay Missed the Crossup , He jumped out to far

It wasn’t me. :slight_smile:

Oh.My bad, sorry. I can’t remember who it was then, but i don’t want to take credit for it, i just got the trick from someone else, but i’m too lazy to check back through the last 300 or so posts :rofl:

I thought that too, i’m glad someone else posted it. I use that invincible DR escape a lot on less scary crossups, just activate it to fly in the direction they’re coming from, but it’s really dangerous against deejay because his ambiguous MK crossup and follow up combos are so good. If you get it wrong you’ll eat a huge combo every time and be knocked down and possibly stunned, so it’s usually just not worth the risk of trying it, just block instead and watch out for tick throws off the follow up combo.

The devil’s reverse is good to escape very meaty wakeup crossups from some characters though, when you know that the crossup is too far forward to be ambiguous, that it’s definitely a meaty low to the ground crossup, you can sometimes just DR reversal in the direction they’re coming from and fly away from them. As long as their crossup is not timed to hit you too high your invincible lower half will generally let you escape and fly away untouched, but be careful of characters like ken who can tag you with fierce DP’s off their crossup, cause you’ll get hit anyways if you do this, because of the huge arc on his DP.

These are great tips vs decent Blanka players but the more advanced players may have counters for almost every single tactic you mentioned. Actually it was pretty cool for you to mention all those things because I ran them off like a checklist in my head. I think I have them all covered. :wink:

Again, great tips but I wouldn’t count on them vs the tougher Blanka players.

IMO DJ didn’t miss his crossup. If NKI didn’t do DR, he woulda got hit. I agree with Mackdaddi, IMO DR can escape all non ambiguous xups, not including splashes.

Wrong. That cross-up was way off the mark. I’d wager that it would not have even hit even if Dictator stood in neutral. You can clearly see that the DJ player is [media=youtube]oBzshRMK_V0&#t=1m10s"[/media] as the Devil’s Reverse come out, meaning his jumping attack was already over before Dictator even woke up. Not only that but the Devil’s Reverse wasn’t even done with reversal timing. So there is no way that DJ hadn’t already landed at that moment.

You don’t know what you are talking about.

Please answer this seriously, because this is a serious question: Do you get a hard-on over unnecessarily bashing people?

You could’ve just ended it after “landed at that moment”, but in the ways of VF4, there has to be something derogatory in there. And when someone dares to speak out against you, you run to the Premium Forums like a little bitch and neg rep them.

Also, what even qualifies you to insult people in the first place? I’ve never, ever heard of you in any tournaments, I’ve never seen you around GGPO/2DF or XBL. There is pretty much no evidence that you even play the damn game other than your posts. I’d wager that your skill isn’t even anything good.

How about this; show up at EVO 2010. We’ll do a best out of 3 or a best out of 5, doesn’t matter. Loser leaves SRK forever.

:rofl: @ slide under pc.

OZ’s guide to beating monster:

Tick throw a lot.

He said something clearly wrong about the match. He kept arguing after people tried nicely pointing out that he was wrong. If he’s going to keep arguing then I’m going to hammer it home that he was wrong.

Why allow people to spread misinformation about the game? By the way, I’ve been around VFDC for nearly seven years, and I’ve been to EVO three times. I don’t claim that I’m the second coming of ST like you do. I’ve entered ST and VF at EVO three times in the past…and guess what? I didn’t make top 8. What a shock!

I don’t proclaim to be a godlike player of HDR and never will be. I’m mid level and don’t strive to be higher than that. You seem to have a weird personal vendetta against me based on your posts. This thread is about Dictator in HDR. If you want to have a pissing match with me then take it to a private message.

This is three posts in a row where not a single person was fully on the mark about what happened in that instance. DJ’s cross-up was not too far away from Dictator. Devil’s Reverse did not get Dictator away from any cross-up there. Do you, or anyone else here, really know what happened? DJ’s cross-up was too early, and landed, BEFORE the Devil’s Reverse even came out. What really happened in that instance is that the DJ player landed on the ground before Dictator was even standing. Then, DJ tried mashing low jab, but the Dictator player did a (non reversal timing) Devil’s Reverse to escape the low jabs.

So we have posters going on about Devil’s Reverse mechanics when they can’t even put together what happened in that match. And when people try to be nice and throw out some (partially) correct information…people who have no idea what they are talking about keep coming back and saying “IMO I think I’m right”.

This isn’t a game of opinion. It’s a game of facts. You can say “IMO” all you want but that Devil’s Reverse didn’t escape the cross-up. That is a fact.

If people want to post incorrect information then try to mask their uncertainty with “IMO” then I am going to call them out on it.

I feel that having people discuss something, talk about it, and offer their different opinions and analysis is useful. You’re right that there is an eventual, underlying “ultimate truth” to be found, but the game is supposed to be fun and the message board is supposed to be fun. Everyone is at a different level in their knowledge. Everyone can contribute and we’ll get to the right answer in the end.

So in this case, I think saying “you don’t know what you’re talking about” runs contrary to that ideal. And I say this fully respecting your level of knowledge and your contributions, VF4.

Go back to your own damn thread!!

No, just kidding. Definitely, and well pointed out. This is just all the shit i like to use against all the average blanka players who i see using all the same tricks all the time on XBL, and isn’t meant to be definitive, it’s just some useful tips. A good starting point to develop your own strategies from- a head start if you will.

As far as i’m concerned that match is won by correct spacing above all. Either character can win it hands down if he can stay where he should be, and there are a lot of options for each character to beat a lot of what the other guy is doing IF his spacing is exactly right. I rate it as 50/50 overall, but it goes to 80/20 once one side or the other can get in their sweet spot in terms of positioning and stay there.

PS, why dont you post something similar from the other side of the argument? I’d be interested in seeing a quality blanka player’s take on what they’re trying to achieve in the matchup, and what tricks work in what situations. It would be useful to tick things off and see if we dic players know how to handle all of blanka’s BS.

Let’s get some cross character specific thread co-operation going here. You scratch our back, etc…

I don’t know if it’s ALL non ambiguous crossups, i think the key thing is that it feels to me like it can be used to escape very tight, meaty crossups that would have hit very late or very low to the ground, like the example posted. Crossups that are basically hitting you very late in the jump, in your legs or lower body, a frame or two before the person crossing you up would have landed.

I think deejay’s crossup timing was bad in the video we’re discussing here, it was a fraction too early. If it was a little higher bison would have had no option but to block. His DR wouldn’t have given him an escape.

From what i know of the DR, the legs and mid section have the most invincibility, that’s where very deep, low to the ground crossups would be hitting you, and that’s why it’s a viable escape in some cases, but it’s very specific to the timing of the crossup jump, like in the video. There are a few invincible startup frames before bison leaves the ground, and these are what makes the low crossup (and sometimes it’s follow up normal jab or whatever) whiff. I know from doing this escape myself that if i spot that their jump spacing or especially their jump timing is off and is a bit early, and that they’ll hit me very low to the ground, i’ll do it almost by reaction, but if the crossup is solid, well timed, high, or especially ambiguous, it’s not worth it to try it.

An ambiguous crossup will always be hitting high on the sprite, it invariably hits you in the head while you’re deciding which side to block. A DR won’t help you escape that situation, you’ll still get hit in the head because you’re not invincible there, only on lower parts of your body. It’s only effective against ground level attacks, like a crouching jab tick or whatever, but that’s essentially what a low down, very meaty crossup is in this situation. It’s an attack that hits you very close to ground level, Only difference is that your opponent is still in the air (very slightly) while it’s making contact.