For those of you that were looking to help with updating my FAQ, I posted excerpts from my updated draft in the applicable character threads. If you go through there and read those, you’ll see what I’m looking for: cross-up info. What they are…who they work on…what happens when they don’t work. So far, I’m very sure that I have all of the cross-ups listed in my FAQ, but I just don’t have the specifics for the following characters…
Dictator: Four cross-ups. Jumping jab, Jumping forward, Jumping roundhouse, and the Skull Diver (charge d,u+kick, punch). (I guess you could count the Devil’s Reverse, too, huh? I know that it knocks down, but it still crosses up, so I’d list that.) Most reliable cross-ups: Jumping roundhouse, Jumping forward, Skull Diver. I need a list of who they work on or who they don’t work on (whichever is shorter), and why they don’t work on certain characters if they don’t work.
His wakeup corner crossups with Psycho crusher and scissor kicks would be worth mentioning too, if you haven’t already. They work great in conjunction with his 2x Standing short, Crouching forward xx fierce crusher combo.Cross over into the corner on their wakeup, then use that combo to get back out straight away. It’s a great way to land that little bit of extra damage that will get you a stun if you’ve dealt some damage and beaten them back into the corner but they’re still not dazed. Street fighter dojo has a link to some great Jpeg charts on how to cross up specific characters with this technique here:
I don’t have anything to add on which cross ups work on who specifially, i’m not that clever, but jumping roundhouse and forward work on everyone AFAIK and sometimes one will cross up where the other one won’t from the same jumping position so mix them up to confuse the opponent. Just be careful that you can hit low enough to still be able to combo when using it on some of the bigger guys like sagat etc and especially hawk, or you’ll get 360’d). Also jumping jab is really tricky as a crossup, more so than the others, because it hits/lands a lot farther forward than it looks like it should so it’s great for a sneaky surprise crossup on wakeup to start a TOD. From the right starting position it’s easy to get your opponent to block the wrong way.
The remixed Devil’s reverse is DEFINITELY a viable cross up. It’s great for crossing up from the corner if you’re trapped by somebody going for a ground tick. Use the up+back version, keep holding up and back till you punch to fly up into the corner above their head, and then when you hit the punch, hold forward to cross up and hit on the other side of them. Crossup DR is a great wakeup shenanigan as well if you use it very early. It takes a bit of practice piloting the move & activating the punch at the right distance, but if you do the move early enough after a knockdown (really early) so that most of the flying/reversing part of the move has happened while they’re on the deck and you’re directly above them with the punch as soon as they get up, it can be a 50/50 guessing game which side to block it. It works great on shoto & command characters, just be careful of using it on characters like guile with a down/up anti air, because those special moves will counter it regardless of what side it’s on, but shotos need to guess right to get their dragon punch to come out. Make sure you use the jab version, theres a shorter stun when you land. Seeing as you’ll be landing next to them, you don’t want to get grabbed/comboed if they block it correctly.
As usual, thanks for the info, Mackdaddi. Yeah…Dictator’s cross-ups have been one of my favorites since my SNES SSF2 days. I’m also positive that jumping forward and jumping roundhouse work on everybody…but I want to be sure.
And, oh yeah…on the next revision, I’ll start delving into whiffing cross-up shenanigans. For right now, I just want this thing out!
Although the jumping.toward.Forward crosses-up in the sense that Dictator lands on the other side of the opponent, the move actually doesn’t always hit opponents on the back side, requiring opponents to block as if it was a frontside attack.
(note sure if you FAQ covers this area)
In addition, I have some comments on 4 versions of Dictator’s TOD.
jumping.toward.Roundhosue (land behind), standing.Short, standing.Short, crouching.Forward, Fierce Psycho Crusher
Comments:
Backside TOD Fail: the #3 and #4 combos do not connect vs. standing Claw.
Backside TOD Fail: the #3 and #4 combos do not connect vs. crouching Dee Jay.
Frontside TOD Fail: the #1 and #2 combos do not connect vs.
crouching Honda/Blanka
Frontside TOD Fail (MK): the #1 and #2 combos do not connect vs. crouching Guile
Frontside TOD Fail (HK): the #1 and #2 combos do not connect vs. crouching Ryu/Ken/Chun Li/Dee Jay
At least that’s what I got testing in HDR training.
if other people are getting these to land please chime in so we can remove them from that list.
The biggest entry there is the Claw TOD fail, because it means that Dictator must use a different combo when cross-ing Claw up.
Headstomp crosses up. Also against Claw (and possibly others) you can switch sides on them during the wake up animation.
You might as well watch [media=youtube]yY3Yx9mT6Ks"[/media] from the beginning and note the various cross ups.
Also that corner chart doesn’t give the full picture. Pro tip: mix up your strength of scissor kicks and psycho crusher.
Let’s say that you have your opponent trapped in a corner and they know that both psycho crusher and scissor kicks will cross you over onto opposite side of them. Well, they might not know that only fierce psycho crusher and roundhouse scissors actually cross over, and that the lesser strength specials will keep you on the same side.
So if you do a forward strength scissor kicks, they’ll think to block the opposite side because they confuse the forward scissors as a roundhouse, now you can cross them up from the same side because they’ve been fooled.
So you could mix up strong and fierce psycho crusher, or forward and roundhouse scissors, and keep your opponent very confused. Now not only do they have to know which moves cross over on which side, but they also must know which strength move your are doing.
Finally found the [media=youtube]gmAGlYgM-M4&feature=channel_page"[/media] video.
Man…I really was trying to avoid getting too technical in that FAQ. Leave it to Terry to take it there.
I think I’ll save ambiguous crossups for a later revision.
Now that is info I can use right now!!! I do note where combos mess up on certain characters in the FAQ. Once again, Terry, you’re on it. Appreciate it sir.
Devil’s Reverse fist can be steered to cross-up.
2nd hit of Fierce Psycho Crusher on blocked cross-up TOD can cross-up certain characters.
Jumping toward Strong/Short can cross-up. (at least certain characters)
Does crouching Roundhouse slide cross-up an opponent who techs their throw?
I see that in the NKI vid you link:
NKI Volume X - Super Turbo Shenanigans - Evo07 Special
[media=youtube]pN5JjotDMAg&feature=related[/media]
1:14 in ambiguous positioning vs. knocked down opponent (Vega)
Any idea what the properties on this are?
Is there a way to control it?
I’ve gone through this vid and flagged the various tricks for each character.
For Dictator:
[media=youtube]pN5JjotDMAg&feature=related"[/media]
0:45 in safe meaty cr.Forward
1:14 in ambiguous positioning vs. knocked down opponent
1:24 in j.Forward overhead hit
2:12 in cr.Roundhouse sweep on Dhalsim teching out of Dictator throw
2:49 in Fierce torpedo through knocked down opponent in corner to position for cross-up cr.Forward, j.Strong (j,Strong hits standing tall opponent)
Crouching.Roundhouse can also be used to cross-up an opponent that has been juggled into the corner, but where Dictator lands while opponent is still decently high up in the air.
I don’t remember which clips I got it from offhand, and I expect it only crosses-up certain characters in certain situations.
I have used it in game, but I don’t remember the character or the corner.
The chart is a visual representation of the information provided in Gigga’s Dictator tutorial [media=youtube]sKVjpAGnMTQ"[/media].
It covers the Scissor Kicks or Psycho Crushers set-ups that WILL cross-up each opponent.
It’s not a diagram on what to use, it just shows which moves (if used) will cross-up. (if they are done before the opponent is up and they are done close enough that the move will cross-up the opponent before they get up)
If you want to give more depth to the corner trick game by adding additional fake cross-up tricks, then go for it.
I like it!
But only the Short Scissor Kick is incapable of crossing-up an opponent.
But only Blanka and Dee Jay would be immune to a Scissor Kick mix-up.
I do find working with the scissor as a cross-up is much more cumbersome to work with because of it’s longer charge time and possible a slower speed of the move.
Of course you could always threaten with the cross-up, then do the Scissor/Psycho so late that it doesn’t cross-up.
Great find!
What’s thetrick in the inputs to get crouching.Forward into Super?
I tried sliding the stick along the bottom x2, hitting Forward once when I completed the first slide, and hitting Forward a second time when I completed the second slide.
If the first Forward missed, the Super would come out everytime.
But if the Forward connected, I didn’t get the Super to come out.
It seems like I can only combo it if I:
charge
slide the stick along the bottom from down.back to down.forward (or just past down.neutral) to down.back
slide the stick to down neutral, hit the Forward button, continue sliding the stick to down.forward and either release the Forward button or hit it again
In regards to Claw, flashing back to my SNES SSF2 days, I remember him being particularly hard to ToD. However, the combo I tried to connect back in the day was…
Cross-up :hk:, cr.:lp:x2-st.:lp: XX :hk: Scissor Kick/:hp: Psycho Crusher
I just had a theory about the renda cancel from cr.:lp: to st.:lp: using less frames than linking from cl.:lk: to cr.:mk: and, whaddya know…they use the same amount of frames…6…and that’s if you cancel the cr.:lp: on the first frame of recovery or link from cl.:lk: on the frame that the move ends.
So…alternate theory…how about linking from cl.:lk: to st.:lp:? In other words…
Cross-up :hk:, cl.:lk:x2-st.:lp: XX :hk: Scissor Kick/:hp: Psycho Crusher
St.:lp: has one less frame of startup…but does it have enough range to hit Claw? (I’m guessing that the combo fails on Claw because Dictator’s cr.:mk: foot either goes right under Claw’s lead foot or it simply can’t reach him. If cr.:mk: can’t reach, I know st.:lp: won’t reach either.)
If that doesn’t work, then the combo that I settled for in that game is what I’d use…
Cross-up :hk:, cr.:lp:-st.:lp: XX :hp: Psycho Crusher
…because I don’t think I ever had enough time to charge a Scissor Kick on him in that situation.
Mackdaddi and I were actually convo’ing about this a couple of weeks back. Much like cancelling into Boxer or Dee Jay’s supers, it’s all about the slow-motion input. You need to input the first part of the motion as slowly as the game will accept it before pressing :mk: and then inputting the last :r:+:mk: very quickly (Negative Edge is definitely the most reliable way to go here). Per NKI’s site, you only get something like 6 or 7 frames to cancel into a super once the normal hits…as opposed to 20 for normal to special cancels.
This becomes extremely useful when employing meaty cr.:mk: because you can hit confirm by simply doing meaty cr.:mk:, cr.:mk: XX Nightmare Knee Press…jumping :mp:x2. That’s just downright nasty damage right there.
Yeah sequence from NKI’s video is a cross-up. If you have great timing you can cross people up with Dictator’s slide after they tech your throw (and after other situations where your opponent is in the air). Not only that but if you time the slide perfect, you can do a meaty cross-up slide, which is not only hard to block but I believe it’s also safe when blocked if timed properly.
I’m not sure about this one. I’d have to test it out.
Assuming dic is on the left and is right up against the opponent, the command i was using was:
Hold :db: to charge, then slide over to :df:, then :db: and press and hold crouching forward, then go to :df:, then release the kick button for the super while the opponent is still in hit stun. Press and hold for the normal, release for the super.
I think the difference in what i was doing compared to you was i hit the crouching forward on the second down back of the motion (not the first down forward) and released it on the next part, (the second down forward) to get the negative edge to activate the super after the forward has hit.
So to recap:
1-Charge
2-Slide forward
3-Slide back, Then press and hold MK for the crouching forward
4 Slide forward again and release the MK for the super
Mess with the timing, and try different speeds and you’ll eventually get it 100%. Unlike OJ, i seem to get success if i do it fast. It feels like it’s about 70 or 80% as fast as i can go but it happens every time, so the method definitely works. As was posted,you only have a very short window to combo in to the super, so i’d stick with doing it fast, and negative edging off the crouching forward is definitely the way to go to activate the super, any extra inputs or releases in there will probably mess it up.
Yep, definitely. The longer charge time coupled with the fact that you have to activate the scissor kick MUCH earlier to get it to cross up on a waking up opponent than the crusher makes it a lot less useful. It’s harder to get a situation where you can actually do it, and when you do get to do it the fraction earlier that you have to activate it makes a big difference in whether or not the opponent is able to react and block correctly. The fierce crusher is the best tool for this trick.
Personally i always use the same set piece: Fierce crusher in to the corner, followed immediately by st.LK, st.LK, cr.MK, xx Fierce crusher to get back out of the corner. It’s so fast that it’s virtually impossible to react to, so it becomes a guessing game on a knockdown whether you’re going to do it or not. The first time you try it it will land 99% of the time, because nobody expects it, and even if they guess right and block it and punish the crusher, you’ll have crossed back over them and be out of the corner again. I’d rather take that damage and move on than being cornered and opening myself up for all the usual " free jump ins on dictator" crap.
Even thought i stop playing HDR i was able to get the super durning the TOD. Cross over HK it has to be a high hit for the longer charge to take then standing LK LK low MK this is when i go to down foward on the stick as well then back to back and i double tap to get it out i could not get it with the neg edge at all but like clock work with DT also works with the Face to face TOD
Just like the 2nd standing.LK won’t connect in the regular TOD version.
You can get a 2nd standing.LK to connect if you use the far version, but that version won’t let you link the crouching.MK.
Working with crouching.LK trying to link into another normal doesn’t seem to work for me.
This seems the best bet.
In ST, I could get a standing.LP as the third hit off a set-up of:
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > standing.LK
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > crouching.LP
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > standing.LP
In HDR, I could get 2x standing.LP off a set-up of:
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > standing.LK
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > crouching.LP
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > standing.LP
But I couldn’t seem to combo the HP Psyhco Crusher onto it.
But after you posted yours I tried it more, and was able to get (though not consistently yet) the cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > crouching.LP > standing.LP > HP Psycho Crusher.
Though it seemed if I didn’t hold down the LP button on the standing.LP then I would sometimes get a LP Psycho Crusher.
I can always just use this one too:
cross-up.jumping.MK/HK > standing.LK > standing.HK
Ok, after messing around I’ve worked out a technique that seems to work best for me right now.
It’s kind of a hybrid of the suggested methods.
Basically do the first slide, then piano MK into LK at the start of the final slide.
I suppose I am getting both negative edge and pseudo-double tap components.
I’d suggest working the following into your game:
standing.LK x2, crouching.MK, FP Psycho Crusher (what you have now)
crouching.MK x2, FP Psycho Crusher
[media=youtube]zpyW-LS1GwM#t=3m13s"[/media]
jump.away/toward.MK
[media=youtube]peZcM2oVJmM&#t=5m04s"[/media] (meaty fake to bait wake-up reversal)
#'s 3 and 4 are great to use if they are almost dizzy.
Like those times you do the frontside TOD and they don’t dizzy.
I also have been doing an early jump (so I jump up or toward the corner), coming down with MK/MP/etc. if jumping into corner or with LK/MP/etc. if jumping up.
The jumping up options are nice since I really like the jump.up.LK 5-hit combo and the MP will launch into a juggle nicely.
I just tried a new one for me:
crouching.MK (meaty), jump.toward.MK
It was a combo vs. some tall characters, but missed on other characters.
So I used the this vs. other characters and it comboed:
crouching.LK (meaty), jump.toward.MK
I’ll try this one when I my TOD fails to dizzy, that way I can fish for a low and high hit.
The late Fake Slide into jump.away.MK overhead seems like it might be nice to try too too.
I’ve been trying to mess around with fake slide some.
If you are doing corner shenanigans then always mix up between crouching forward and jumping forward. Crouching short is a terrible option compared to a meaty low forward on a rising opponent.
A meaty low forward with charge can be deadly. You can string another low forward and then either a psycho crusher or scissor kicks if the meaty low forward connects. Big damage and huge dizzy potential. If you don’t have a charge them combo a standing roundhouse off of a meaty low forward.
Now, if your opponent blocks the meaty low forward, you have two good options. The first is to use the meaty low forward as a tick, and try to throw them after they recover, this is vulnerable to counter throws and reversal special attacks however.
The second option is, after a meaty low forward is blocked, is to use another low forward, and then short scissor kicks.
Now if you want to act crazy then you could do meaty low forward (that is blocked), another low forward (blocked), then slide from that distance. If your opponent blocks high, or tries certain attacks, the slide will win. However if they block or use something with higher priority they’ll gain a nice advantage.
Now if you are really crazy, you could try to fake slide, after your second blocked low forward. So you’d try a meaty low forward, another low forward, then a fake slide into whatever mix up you use from there.
Fake slide basically has to two solid options after it from what I’ve experienced. You can try to throw. Or you can head stomp from your crouched recovery. The thing is that both of those lose to a lot of special attacks, and head stomp on the way up even loses to some normals.
If you can catch your opponent off guard and land a head stomp after a fake slide then you’re in position to do some real damage. Head stomp and followup successfully landing is almost always a dizzy. So try fake slide into head stomp once in a while and see what you come up with.
I still consider it a shenanigan and not something that you’re ever going to see at high level (or maybe even high-mid level) HDR.
Maybe down the road fake slide will yield some awesome tactic but for now I use it sparingly.
Well, the TOD fails because the 2nd standing.LK doesn’t reach Claw’s “I just got hit” hitbox.
Is this a crouching.LK or crouching.MK?:
3:12 in
[media=youtube]zpyW-LS1GwM[/media]
Whatever it is, that’s the one to do.
It’s not in my game yet.
I was in training testing how far a meaty MK pushed me away, and it seemed pretty far.
So I figured the move in that vid was a LK.
Fake Slide is very versatile.
If you demonstrate using the real one, then fake one into throw is great.
Fake one into throw is good as quick trick too if you use the fake slide sparingly.
You mention slide into headstomp, but you can also slide into devil reverse. (I usually use the one that goes through them)
It’s also good to slide into position for a combo that uses the last four hits of the cross-up TOD:
2x standing.LK, crouching.MK, FP Psycho Crusher
Making for the best non-Super standing combo on a dizzy opponent he has I think.
It’s good for closing distance or sliding under dangerous high air attacks or springing a turtle flashkick or other reaction.
Also good to change-up distance and then jump, cause it will throw off opponents sense of spacing.
When you need to set-up for a meaty, it beats walking to them in most cases.
And you can slide up to them then instant overhead them with jumping.toward/away.MK.
I often start the round vs. Akuma with it.
It’s get-hit box is so far back, that it will often push into many standing attacks from your opponent without your actually getting hit.
And many times it’s so fast and unexpected, that using it puts you in a position to make the first move almost as if the opponent is put into a slight bock stun.
I LOVE fake slide. It’s such an unfair addition to dic’s game, and is way more versatile than it gets credit for. It’s brilliant for closing space and being tricky, it’s an alternative to dic’s ridiculously big jump arc for moving in, and one of it’s best uses is getting close and going into a combo like you mentioned after somebody whiffs a psychic DP or flashkick or whatever from distance.
Have you tried fake slide(charge back immediately) st.LK x2, cr.MK, scissor kicks? I haven’t tried it yet. Is there enough time to get the charge for the scissors? It would be a little more damaging than using a crusher at the end of the combo.
I use this all the time against deejay players when i’m trying to get in with a headstomp. If i’m at full screen, good deejay players are very comfortable. A walk forward loses me all my charges, a jump forward puts me too close and they can anti air me easily, and if i headstomp they can upkick my headstomp on reaction just in time. A fake slide closes me in the perfect distance to threaten them, and i can go straight into a headstomp as soon as i recover, and they usually won’t have enough time to upkick it on reaction. It’s a great low to high mixup, and people still arent wise to it.
I do this a lot with characters like sagat and ryu when i’m expecting a jump forward from them at the start of the round to start their air pressure on bison’s shoddy defence. They jump, you slide under them and cross them up, and throw them from the other side. Also fake slide into throw is great on round start against anybody you feel is just going to block, based on what they’ve done in other rounds.If you see them hi-blocking or just walking backwards, then use real slide, if they’re low blocking then fake slide>throw.
It’s as annoying as blanka’s roll into bite when you land it
im not much of a combo player, and i rely on J.Hk, st. LK, st.LK, scissors way too much. Its an easy combo to land but it doesnt dizzy. Good damage though.
I’ve tried for hours to get the extra cr.forward in to make it the TOD, but have had no success.
What i can do is j.Hk, st.LK, Cr.Forward, scissors - this does dizzy most of the time, but is not as reliable as the former. Any tips on how i can get that extra hit in?
Headstomp on Honda works great, but if he fierce headbutts after the hit, he is guaranteed to either hit you (if you fly away or drop in front) or get out of jail for free (if you go behind). Whats the best follow up? If he knows you are going to go behind (to avoid getting hit) he can start to punish you
But that’s all it’s for. Being ‘tricky’ or used as a shenanigan. It’s not something that’s going to be found at any time at high level play. I don’t know what kind of competition you are facing but I rarely see people using fake slide more than once per match in local gatherings. Against good competition offline I hardly ever use fake slide and it doesn’t seem to be hurting my game whatsoever. I think you are grossly exaggerating and overrating the effective offensive prowess of the new fake slide. It’s hardly ‘brilliant’. Now Ryu’s fake fireball? That’s a different story.
Dictator’s jumping arc isn’t ridiculously big. It’s purposefully long because it allows for you to cross someone up and still hold opposite charge enough to get a psycho crusher or scissor kick as the end of a TOD. His jump arc time was [media=youtube]AdvXOB2Ml-M&#t=1m38s"[/media] by Capcom around his charge times. If his jump arc was shorter then you wouldn’t be able to end his jump-in strings with any specials.
Really you want to be jumping in on your opponent at any opportunity. If your opponent guesses wrong and you land a jump-in then you can win the round very easily. This is way more effective than trying to fool your opponent with a fake slide. Landing a [media=youtube]peZcM2oVJmM&#t=3m10s"]real slide is much better than simply getting in close with a fake slide and setting up a very ambiguous guessing game that loses to so many different things anyways. [can get in close anyways where you can threaten your opponent with mix ups as well.
On to other stuff. Here a [media=youtube]AbgKJCbUDiA&feature=related"[/media] ends the first round. Watch the third round also, YuuVega waits for his opponent (OtoChun, maybe the best ST player in the world) to throw a fireball, he jumps in with jumping strong and gets a dizzy and nearly a ToD. If Chun somehow recovers in time to get in the air then the jumping strong could connect for three hits and set up a nice corner trap or possible jumping cross-up. However if the jumping strong connects then you either get a nice dizzy combo or a block string with short scissors chip damage.
[media=youtube]bhSWzWnMNO4&#t=1m09s"[/media] you see Kusumondo try a cross-up torpedo on a landing YuuVega. Then you see a deep cross-up followup into low forward (that somehow Kusumondo blocks all of). And then finally a cross-up devil’s hand from way high in the air.
[media=youtube]QfEcZf1eCWc&#t=1m59s"[/media] you have Zangief baiting a wake up SUPER (a possibly failed reversal SUPER) and then beating it with a jump away splash.
[media=youtube]fmOt2Md-Gxk&#t=51s"[/media]
Everything in that video above in that round on Chun is a low forward. Meaty low forward is what you want. If you are a long ways away and can’t jump on a rising opponent then a meaty slide isn’t a bad option as well. But if you are in close range use a meaty low forward on rising (and jumping) opponents.
[media=youtube]peZcM2oVJmM&#t=5m04s"]Here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLAWbHOhmyI&#t=3m06s"[/media) you see Taira use crouching short as a meaty attack. But is it meaty? No. He uses crouching short to bait a reversal headbutt from his opponent playing Boxer. He throws it out and it recovers before the reversal can hit him. He then throws his opponent out of the headbutts recovery. Also watch how he ends the round. He does a safe jump with a jumping short, [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4XgaiHoJQ&#t=1m21s”[/media], then does a jumping overhead forward away and wins.
Timing, timing, timing, my friend. You must learn the timing of exactly when that close :lk: ends. It is, by far, the quickest recovering normal in the game. It starts up for 3 frames and then hits for 3 frames. It has no recovery at all! So, really, you’re just waiting for 2 frames (after the 13 frame contact pause ends) before pressing :lk: again.
The solution: Training mode! Walk up to point-blank range on a training mode dummy and press :lk: as soon as you can after each hit. Just focus on pressing :lk: without adding any other moves to the combo. If you really want to master the timing, hold the joystick toward the opponent and press :lk: and see if you can get three hits on your opponent. This is also a good way to work cl.:lk:(x3), st.:hk: into your game. (Adding a j.:hk: to that as a cross-up will reliably dizzy, by the way.)
When you’re comfortable with the timing, then try the combo you weren’t able to do before. Remember what I always say about link combos: “Your problem is you don’t have any rhythm, mon.” -Dee Jay.
