M. Bison ftw (Dictator Thread)

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
201

I’m having the EXACT same issues. GOOD shotos can still zone me like crazy with FBs and random DPs are killing my offense. I swear Ken can spam jab DPs and there’s very little I can do. I try to standing forward/roundhouse kick him afterwards, but I end up eating ANOTHER jab DP.

Kamuiyou should start working devils reverse into your game if you haven’t already. I primarily use it to avoid taking so much tick damage from fireballs. I rarely use it to fly over the screen and attack, because by the time you get there the opponent will have recovered and DPed you. So I mainly try to keep myself on my side of the screen and build meter in the process. The good thing about DR is that it can eventually prompt the opponent to stop throwing fireballs and come in to attack, so the distance between you will be closed.

The issue I can with shotos is how to keep the pressure on them? IIRC jab DP will beat any kind of shenanigans I try on wakeup. I’m trying to work on baiting and punishing it more often, but as I mentioned I’m having hella difficulty with this. Perhaps due to lag or probably my shitty reaction time.

I have no idea how to beat good Hondas.

202

You can headstomp a full screen fireball (and punish some non-jab shoryukens) on reaction, and it should be unstoppable. That’s been my experience. Neutral jump over them until you’re ready to stomp, as if you block one, the next red fb will stop your headstomp.

With the wakeup stuff, you need to mix your shit up. You can’t just go for the crossup on shotos every time. Try this:

Walk up like you’re going to do a meaty, then step back. Then when he dp’s, grab that shit and throw.

Also, meaty low fwd. is very hard to reversal if you get good at it.

Also, learn to safe jump.

Also, learn to whiff (Fake) a meaty then punish dps.

If people are dping you on wakeup all the time, you need to put a stop to that shit because it’s not a safe thing to do. If you are far enough away that you won’t block the shoryuken and you are not blocking yourself, you can safely punish with a lot of things.

The trick here is that you need to position yourself so that they can’t hit you with wakeup dps or sweeps, but at the same time, NOT BE BLOCKING OR CHARGING.

Especially with Ken and internet lag, it is much easier to punish his jab dps with st.fwd kick than scissors or similar. Lots of good ken players will do two dps, or sometimes three.

If you are blocking when he dps, chances are good you will be unable to punish - and if you scissor, you might lose to another dp, or have it blocked (risky).

Chances are very good this is why you’re having a hard time punishing, Bronzefist.

203

Pokken has it exactly right. One of the KEY ways to fight against Kens who randomly Jab DP is to make sure you are not Blocking. You’ll actually have to learn to play your game without relying on holding back. If Ken Jab DPs, going into Block Stun DOES cause you to not be able to move for a brief period, but if you aren’t Blocking, you can more easily walk up and Roundhouse Kick Ken out of the air.

In general, when using Bison, holding Back should only be for walking backwards in footsie games. You’ll have to risk getting hit by random moves, but if you are fighting characters like Honda and Blanka who can torpedo from afar, yeah, you’ll have to be more careful and Block more often. But for someone like Ken who cannot hit you from half a screen away, you should almost always not be Blocking. If you want to stand in one place, leave the stick in Neutral instead of Crouch Block.

  • James
204

J explained it much better than me, but he grabbed the exact point I was trying to make :slight_smile: Well said.

I’ll reiterate that it takes a lot of practice and it will change your game to play this way. You’ll eat a lot more random moves and fireballs especially. But once you get practiced at it, you’ll know when to block and when not to, and be able to punish whiffed attacks much more safely and often.

205

Much thanks guys. I’ll work on the “not blocking” thing and see how it goes. I didn’t realize blocking causes so much of a delay in countering whiffed moves. I dont remember it being like that in latter SF games (?).

Thanks for the wakeup/meaty tips as well. Soooo much stuff to work on. :stuck_out_tongue:

206

are there any tricks to charging? i’ve heard that you can use one charge to do two moves.

207

You can charge both d/u and b/f charge moves by holding d/b. I am not sure what you mean by do two moves though.

208

He’s probably talking about how you can keep one directional charge after doing a move Boxer style. Dunno how well that works with Dic, as I can’t see needing to do scissors/PC right after a headstomp or DR.

209

You can do Scissors headstomp I guess from fullscreen but yeah, there is no use for that like there is with Boxer where it is crucial.

Kick rush>super to kill people for throwing fireballs is so satisfying. :tup:

210

yeah this is what i’m looking for. how do you do that?

211

Dic’s horizontal charge moves have too much recovery unlike Boxer’s so there is no actual use in that charge storing technique. You could theoretically only do psycho crusher or scissors, and then when you’re done with those moves, do headstomp or devil’s reverse, but I can’t imagine a situation where doing those moves immediately in sequence is a good idea.

212

^ this. To do it in general, though, you use the corners. Using the Boxer example, you can do things like kick rush with charge db, df+k and still have a down charge for a headbutt; alternately, you can do a headbutt with charge db, ub+p and still have a back charge for rushes/super. Not really that good for Dic, but it’s invaluable for Boxer.

And yeah, whiff rush into super is fucking great. My new favorite is whiffing one right before they wake up so they see the whiff and stick something out right into the super. Very old and gimmicky, but so fun. :wink:

213

Good dhalsims like to spam mini drill kicks on me. This seems to have priority over bisons entire library? help plz

214

Is it possible to DR at the last second to go through a jump in? If so I can see that being useful on many characters, but anyone with a dragon punch type move should be able to recover and hit it before I can hit them. Does he have anything to prevent a cross up if you’re crouching other than running away?

Also, is it even possible to do combos on a non dizzy opponent who isn’t a scrub other than the standard c.forward, SK or PC? It seems like the majority of my wins come from constant chip damage and throws.

215

It might not be a good idea compared to just lk. headstomping, but I found out that you can beat Gief Lariats with J. HP cleanly, I guess you should probably stick with headstomping lariats until the HP would be the difference between killing him and not.

Something else useful, is sometimes you want to do your j. mp’s as air to air to juggle, but the opponent doesn’t duck… so only do one j. mp as “psychic” and save the other for air-to-ground if the opponent doesn’t jump. If the second one hits the grounded opponent, you can do cr. mk, and possibly PC or scissors after. But j. mp > cr. mk is already good damage.

216

There’s a thread on Sirlin.net about this matchup. Sirlin thinks it’s about even - as you would expect for the two characters without a reversal move, you can trap each other pretty quickly.

217

Look for situations you can land a s.lk, and get used to linking c.mk afterwards. Then you can do SK or PC if you have charge. If you don’t have charge, try to get used to linking s.lk -> s.rh. Balrogs fierce headbutt is a great one to punish with a s.lk -> c.mk -> RH scissors - it really gives him a ton of fear next time he thinks about headbutting from your s.rh range.

Also if you crossup with j.mk you can do a s.lk combo too. Risky, but what are ya gonna do

218

To handle the drills from afar you can use S.jabs or S.fierce. They’re pretty useful sometimes in a tight spot as well. I think you can use c.fierce at times, but I’m not so sure. You have to make sure you time the fierce correctly though, cuz they have quite a bit of start up.

219

Having some major difficulties with my Dictator right now and it’s extremely frustrating. Most of the time I go into a match thinking an opponent doesn’t suck and I’m playing defensive at the start. I’ve only really come across one or two players so far that I can’t consistently beat the majority of the time, but against most matchups it’s either close or I get beaten if they aren’t a total scrub player. Dictator has literally ZERO defense and it’s hard to play vs competent shoto’s, Guile’s, Sagat’s, and even Zangief. I’m trying to decide WHO exactly he has any kind of advantage over because I can’t think of anyone except maybe Claw.

What typically happens with a good shoto (I eat the bad ones for breakfast though :wgrin:) is the same fireball dragon punch zoning at close enough range to where a slide, SK or HS are easily countered. If I block all day they just repeatedly jump kick throw, which I usually reverse, but if they know I’m good at getting out of the throw it’s always crouching roundhouse repeat. Crouching fierce does nothing against a shoto jump in at close range, and I’m not sure why it was said to be used…it extends beyond where they actually are and hits air even if done late. Should the DR work against this and should I just always be using only the first part of it to escape and that’s all? I can’t even seem to get the first part to work against anything but Claw’s rolls.

I have a very similar problem against a decent Zangief. I can use the HS runaway and SK at a range to where just the last part of the kick hits so I’m out of PD range and can jump away again, but all he has to do to come back is get me in the corner and it seems so easy to do. Zangief’s jumping fierce seems to be the highest priority normal in the game and I can’t just eat it to escape the corner because he will just follow up with a crouching roundhouse and repeat. If it’s blocked I get PD every time. I’ve read that DR is “great” for escaping this, but when I try to use it I just end up eating a fierce anyway. If they jump at far range and use short kick, it doesn’t seem to matter whether or not I block or eat it to escape, I get PD anyway again. Also, the slide doesn’t get me out of the corner, it just makes me eat the jumping attack and puts me back into the corner. Another thing that was suggested is to slide against the lariat…if they are using the kick lariat, the slide does nothing, and it just puts me at close range…where I don’t want to be. In the event that Zangief actually gets knocked down, is it even possible to cross him up? Seems like the lariat beats every jump in attempt no matter how deep. Even when I counter one lariat with a jumping fierce or forward, another pops right out before I land and knocks me out of the air anyway. The cross up attempt is probably just me not going deep enough though because if it’s a combo, they shouldn’t be able to counter it. Biggest problem against Zangief for me is getting knocked down. As long as that doesn’t happen I’m fine, but all it takes is one sweep to get me setup for a combo that puts me in the corner where he can easily reach me before I get up.

Other than throw attempts, when exactly would a standing short into a combo be viable at all? Would that work if an opponent like Honda or Dict just did a headbutt or PC/SK that was blocked at very close range? Can’t think of many other situations right now.

220

I am not the best Dic player ever or anything, but saying he has no defensive options definitely isn’t true. For example today this corny T-hawk player was repeatedly doing these jumping normals in the corner that I kept blocking (not sure which normal, but a good one…) and then I found out cr. fierce beats that shit cleanly. His defensive options mainly just aren’t obvious, but they’re certainly there. And now with the devil’s reverse beefed up, you have something you never had in vanilla ST, an invincible run-the-hell-away-on-wakeup card.

Shotos: Wait until they DP, and then st. RH. If they fireball, st. RH. It’s pretty much all there is to it, I don’t find shotos all that hard usually. At the very start of the round, you should only be thinking about st. MK or st. RH. If they even look like they’re starting to hadouken you RH, if they DP you wait and then RH them on the way down. Fake slide and throw their ass.

I usually start the round by walking forward one step and then seeing what they do, if they do nothing you poke with RH.

I find out of all the characters I use in ST, Dic is the best character to fight against Zangief. If he lariats you headstomp and then fly away back to full screen, or even j. HP beats lartiat. Slide also beats lariat from the right distance. I find that fake slide> throw works better on gief than a LOT of characters, because he is waiting to block a scissor or a real slide and then punish.

Have you ever tried jump straight up RH and jump straight up LK, repeatedly? This annoying shit actually works, try it.