BRO HUG
Everyone’s yelling a Capcom like they’re the ones responsible for the delay. When really it’s Marvel, you guys forget the licensing issues are what took this game so long to come out. Capcom can’t release characters on Marvel’s end without consent, and we all know they aren’t just going to give us 6 new Capcom fighters. Seth even said Marvel told them they couldn’t make Shuma part of the initial release. If they’re saying who can’t be in then it’s really not up to us. I think Capcom will give us Strider but we’ll be stuck with whoever Marvel is trying to sell the public at the moment (I really want Black Panther but I’m not holding my breath) i.e. Red Skull, Black Widow, or Nick Fury. Remember they wouldn’t allow any of the FF cast in because the actor playing Torch is now Cap America which is how Super Skrull made the cut. I’m not hating I like Skrull but there are alot of politics/marketing schemes involved in this picture.
Well, you can actually use ~12. You always seemed like a cool dude so let me try and explain this to you via a theoretical, since I think you’ll get it:
You like Blazblue, right? It’s been adding more characters since it first launched but when it first came out, it had a pretty small cast. Some characters in that game are stronger than others, but overall you could bring any character to a tournament and have SOME hope of winning.
Okay, so now that we’ve established that, let’s say arcsys cuts a deal with Jump Comics and gets a contract to make BlazBlue Vs. Naruto. So they add 40 Naruto characters and 12 of the original BlazBlue cast. These 40 Naruto characters all SUCK though. not only are they not tournament viable, they’re not as fun as the 12 blazblue characters. A lot of them play just like a Blazblue character but they’re just a weaker, less mobile and more generic version of them. Because of this, no one actually uses the naruto characters, so they just sit on the character select screen unused.
So effectively, the only difference between Calamaty Trigger and BB vs. Naruto is that there are more character that you could choose, but no one does. The matchups you need to learn are the same, the metagame is the same, the mechanics are the same, the only difference is roster size. All in all once the players have chosen their characters it’s like you’re playing and watching the exact same game. Do the 40 useless characters that no one uses suddenly make the game worse?
This is kind of like MvC2. You can use 12 really cool, powerful and unique characters that let you play the game many different ways, but there are 44 really bad characters that are less dynamic, powerful and fun than the top 12 so no one uses them (unless you’re VDO or you enter a low-tier tournament). If MvC2 JUST had these 12 characters, would it be any better?
thanks i needed that
http://files.myopera.com/JanetB/albums/5227102/Internet%20Bro%20Fist.jpg
And from that day onward everyone in the SRK “Lupinko says there will be a Super MvC3” thread lived happily ever after…until capcom trolled them again shortly afterwards.
i don’t think mvc2 is the better game… it just had the better cast, and also the better artwork… i just love the victory screen in mvc2 where you have your team standing next to each other. They should have re-did that in mvc3… but mvc2 is not actually the better game.
MVC3 gameplay wise is good, the cast is ok it just lacks iconic characters that made MVC as big as it is. Im very happy about Zero, dante, and dormamu. I think they are one of the best characters ever put in a fighting game…
I’m gonna be honest, I mean I’m always honest but I just wanna stress that now: This is the best argument towards MvC2’s unbalance I ever read. It has none of the pretentious claims to value, nothing especially elitist, it’s accessible, and I found the analogy fitting.
Having said that, I don’t think it mitigates the problem. You see if you’re gonna have Naruto characters, as per the deal, and you’re still a dev team stressed with making a quality fighter - I believe you should strive for giving those anime ninja kids the same depth as the BB cast, at least to the best of your ability. That’s just my handle on it.
Then again they made a deal, they needed a game out in a year, and character presentation is probably prioritized over gameplay viability in a fiscal year clutch.
mvc3 has more relevant glitches and has a smaller top tier than mvc2. it is also worse in the playability department as well – less emphasis on making smart decisions, less smart mixups needed thanks to many ways to just kills characters straight out without resets…the list goes on and on. not that i dont think an update can fix all these things, but as it stands now…
are you trying to say that mvc3 is less balanced than MVC2, or just as imbalanced? Cuz regardless of mvc3 having a smaller top tier, every character is actually viable. there are more teams that are possible in heavy play in mvc3. With MVC3, The WNF’s to every tourney event… different teams with different characters are in EVERY MATCH. Same was never said with MVC2.
Well 40 ass characters is definitely a problem per se, but it’s not going to ruin the entire game like people suggest the balance in MvC2 does. The point I’m trying to make is that in this made up BB vs. Naruto game, there is a large amount of unplayable characters, but a well made and enjoyable “metagame” still exists within the 12 blazblue characters, just like Calamity Trigger where only those 12 characters exist.
Maybe “Street fighter vs. Dan’s extended family” would have been a better analogy.
Not necessarily would he be, as you stated, “ASS.” Thanos is one of the top 5 most powerful Marvel characters (depending on who’s doing the writing). Capcom just didn’t represent him correctly in MVC2…Mistakes are understood…Surfer is arguably more powerful than the Phoenix, especially since this Phoenix inhabits a “host.” They managed to make her, imo, the most powerful character in the game. The same could have been applied to the Surfer given the right tools. It is, however, a moot point, since Surfer was only “almost” in, ain’t in, and ain’t gonna get in.
I’m just wondering where did you get that info. The F4 aren’t in because it would take up too many slot, all for nothing. The Thing would have no purpose. Mr Fantastic is boring and has no purpose on his own. Invisible Woman, same as the previously stated members. And The Human Torch is a fire guy. It’s been done. The stretchy limb man’s been done. The strong hero of the game is hulk/she hulk, etc… But because the guy who played Human Torch is now playing Cap in the movie is not grounds for not putting Ben, Richard, and Sue in (or even Johnny for that matter)…I don’t understand that logic. It makes no sense. They decided that Skrull made more sense–one character, one slot, and all the F4 powers are represented. Plus, it can more intelligently be argued that Capcom developers were too lazy to do all four of them. And like Stan Lee once said, and I paraphrase, the F4 are meant to be a unit, because they suck individually. Thus, you can’t really put one member in the game without all of them, and including them all is both more work and needless work…
I think the thing is that Marvel was by far the most competitive fighting game of the last 10 years. Its tournament life was really really long and passionate until the day that MVC3 came out. If you think about it, Marvel started off with more characters, by the end there were like 7 tournament viable point characters (I’d say the big 4, iron man, spiral and strider) and then give or take 5 assist characters (With Storm/Sent the last assist doesn’t really matter that much so you can have an argument for any AAA characters is viable, but I’m thinking more along the lines of Psylocke,Capcom, Cyclops, Doom, Tronne…probably some others I can’t remember right now…Blackheart?), but in the first 5 years you could win tournaments with about 10 good point characters. That’s already more than most people give it credit for. Then think that all these characters were very very unique.
MVC3 is already really unbalanced about 6 months in and all the top characters and teams play really similarly. Other than phoenix based teams, it’s a total snooze.It’s 2 characters air dashing at each other and hoping for a crouching short. MVC3 is like Magneto vs Magneto without resets, and less execution needs… It’s fun sometimes, but it’s like watching only dunk competitions and calling it basketball. I’m an X’s and O’s guy and need more than just highlights, but it’s a big hit with uncompetitive players.Runaway, zoning and fun gimmicks were what made Marvel a much deeper and tournament viable game and one that lasted for fucking ever.
Marvel crashed and burned? It was the focal point of every EVO except 1 until SF4 came out and was buoying the fighting game scene that whole time. Like it or hate it, it was absurdly successful and other than measuring by abstract metrics, it was an enormous success. Accidentally for sure, but it was hugely successful.
Anyways, enough about Marvel. I really hope MVC3 just doesn’t have X-factor and I’d love a Phoenix nerf. Wolverine’s pretty stupid too. And adding Disney characters would be awesome. I have this disgusting fantasy of beating the shit out of Dante with Goofy.
Ah, but that is contingent on who exactly gets enjoyment out of that metagame. MvC2’s metagame is famously inclusive, on top of a game that even played casually can be confusing and overwhelming to John C Consumer.
MvC3 has a smaller top tier than MvC2? At the moment we have Phoenix, Wolverine, Magneto, Dante, Wesker and Ammy as top tier in MvC3…
You made me lol…
And come to think of that policy, that odds would prolly… no… I’m not going to mention it…
JUST DON’T GO TO THE BATHROOM DURING COMIC CON!!!
No… just no.
And I’m not open for reasoning, certain SRK vets know that my Disney hatred knows no boundaries (hence Battle Poll)
Imagine it like Cisco’s Strider obsession for MvC3 but then in a reverse negative way :lol:
My humble perspective: I’m a freak. I like both games. I like MVC3’s variety, options and better balance. I like MVC2’s resets, comebacks and mix ups. What I hate is comparing the two. The best way to respect MVC2 is to let MVC2 be MVC2 and to let MVC3 be it’s own thing. There was nothing intrinsically good about MVC2’s design that made it last. Cobbled together lazily from previous VS games, it was held together with ducktape and goodwill. It was broken, but loved, and the community made it great regardless because it was fun, imperfections and all. MVC3 has imperfections, but not the community’s love. It gets a hard time for things that either pale in comparison to MVC2’s flaws or are similar. Killing two characters with TK AHVB’s? HYPE. Kill two characters with Shinku XF Shinku? XF is broke. MVC3 could never win. If it was the same game, people would keep playing MVC2. If it was different, then it just wasn’t the same. Trying to make MVC3 broken, but perfect like MVC2 is like trying to recreate a train wreck where the train came off the rails, barrell rolled through the air, and serendipitously landed on the tracks again. You can’t recreate that without ending up with some sterile and contrived version of ‘brokenness’ like XF.
Why can’t damage tweaks make MVC3 more reset, mix up focused? Why can’t XF be reworked? They can, and probably will be. This isn’t the MVC2 era when we have to put up with Storm disappearing off the screen and returning with a meter or not play at all. Why is it we blow out of our seats when Dr Doom somehow solos Sentinel and Storm, but pout and say ‘damn straight’ when Dark Phoenix gets shut down? We piss and moan about Phoenix, pre-patch Sent and Wolverine, ignore the substantial competitive mid tier, and praise Cable, Mags, Storm and Sent. We piss and moan so much all we have to do now is wait for Sent’s health to disappear for us.
What changed? I think we’ve been pampered by the recent glut of fighting games. I remember when it was hard to get hold of a NEO GEO. None of my friends knew what it was, and thought I was weird. It was expensive and hard to get, but I wanted to play Samurai Shodown and Fatal Fury. The best way to show I was a fighting game fan was to explore those unknown region with effort and expense. Now it’s the reverse. We have a shitload of fighters on the market, and the best way to show our discernment is to penetrate the hype with negativity. Dark Stalkers 4 will happen. Guilty Gear will get its sequel. Other franchises may be resurrected off of fg’s current popularity. And we will hate them all, admiring MVC2 and Guilty Gear AC like museum pieces.
They could have made Reed a very unique character with stretchy limbs, able to turn himself into objects, even reflect projectiles. I’m not going to make up some mock move list for all 4 but they could have done it. Every one of them has HUGE potential. My point was didn’t want FF in the game. Super Skrull doesn’t really use all 4 of the powers to the fullest potential, and if you say he does it’s apparent you don’t read comics. Think about it, he’s got 4 powers and 2 of his 3 supers are Torch based, when he should have 1 (LV1) that use’s the Invis powers more obviously, THEN, 1 (LV1) Torch based and a LV3 that combines Ben and Reeds both… oh wait.
I didn’t say they had to put all 4 of them in game. I said I’m not hating on Skrull I’ve liked him since the 90s. My overall point was that Capcom really doesn’t pick what fighters come from Marvel side. Niitsuma said himself he wanted Venom and Gambit in (not to mention another character from Darkstalkers). How are you going to talk about slots? MVC2 had 56 don’t forget that.
I hope I cleared that up so now my logic makes sense to you. 
they actually made human torch or started to then he was removed due to being a RAM whore , so just thought skrull would be the best way to put them all in
I hate super skrull though
I really wanted ms marvel but I can’t help think she would be boring in game
Super Skrull needs a flight mode, an invisible force blast, a no chip shield and a strike with super armor. Then he’d be complete and more competitive. Didn’t he shoot eye laserz in the comic too? Could have swore I saw that.
the people who get enjoyment from that metagame would be the same people who enjoy BB as it is now. Since the 40 naruto characters are so bad that they have no affect on what tournament players pick and how they play at high level, the tournament game remains unchanged. Plus, since those 12 BB characters offer enough unique playstyles to choose from, pretty much any type of player would be able to pick a character they feel the most confortable with while ignoring the Naruto characters. This is also how MvC2 works. No matter if you play rushdown, spacing, lockdown, etc you can find a team that works for you within the 12 useable characters in MvC2.