LS-40 vs LS-32 and other random stick stuff

Tech Talk
1

So, today I am comparing the LS-40 to the LS-32. Uh, well…

I’m really not seeing much of a difference. In fact, the measurements are exactly the same between the two sticks. You can put the LS-40 PCB into the LS-32 and vice versa. The actuators are the same. The spring holder almost the same. Same spring. Same micros. Same gate measurements and micros are mounted at the same distances, so the throw and engage is exactly the same. Can swap in mounting plates between them. The major difference is the pivots. Yep, a whole new stick just for a pivot.

The way the gates mount are different too, but with minor drilling you can put a LS-40 gate on a LS-32. For the LS-40, you can mount the LS-32 PCB and use the LS-40 gate. If you wanted, you could mount the LS-40 PCB on the LS-32 and cut off some mount stubs and then drill a small hole for the screws that mount the LS-40 gate.

The shafts are very different, but the actuator, pivot, spring flange, all been drilled to accommodate the extra girth (lol) of the shaft.

Pivot from the LS-32 is definitely a LS-56 pivot, but drilled to fit the larger diameter of the LS-32 shaft. One thing I noticed is that the LS-32 doesn’t seem as jumpy as I was expecting, and handles it a bit better than the LS-56. I don’t even know if I really feel a jump…

One thing. I look at the LS-32 and think how damn complicated it is. I don’t get it. It has all these doodads and screws everywhere. It’s like Tetsuya Nomura designed it, but instead of zippers and belts it’s screws and more screws. The LS-40 is a much simpler design concept and one I consider superior.

I don’t understand how sites like Slagcoin can post information that these sticks are really different and that the LS-40 is inferior quality. Also, Kowal’s site stating differences in throws and engages when the measurements are the same between the parts that affect those aspects of the stick. LS-32 is not using anything of higher quality than LS-40, and vice versa. I’m saying, these sticks are frankly equal and if someone complains about the performance of one vs another it’s placebo. The one thing the LS-40 can claim superior is a possibly better pivot design, although I’m not even sure of this now because the LS-32 pivot housing is much smaller which matches the LS-32’s pivot. Still, there could probably be improvements, probably.

Oh, I also have a JLW in my hands. WHAT A FINE ASS STICK!!! The machining quality is outrageous on this thing. The design is so simplistic and natural. I may have found yet another new favorite stick. It also feels pretty damn good out the box! Although, an Omron swap over the Zippy adds a little extra “quality” to it. I guess I’m just used to the feel of plate tension switches over springs. I may just say, stock stick? JLW. Then maybe LS-40/LS-32 (since there isn’t much difference) and then with mods who knows. Who knows! So many sticks, so many flavors!

Seriously, if anyone out there says they can’t find a stick they like, they’re smoking crack.

2

How does the 56 stack up to the 40? I’m curious to try it, but I’ve already got more levers than I need.

3

IMO it doesn’t. I spent a good year on each one and the 40 is much more comfortable to play on. The 56 doesn’t operate as smoothly and sometimes I feel like it’s straining itself. Plus, it gets a lot more plastic powder from wear and tear gunking it up over the 40 by a long shot. The 40 is more solid feeling. From an engage / throw perspective, I’m fairly certain they’re almost the same, and not worth sacrificing the smoother action of the LS-40 over the 56.

4

Thanks for the info, I guess the jlw is next on on my list then.

5

I think between the LS-40, the JLW, and the Hayabusa, there is a stick for everyone. Serious on that.

6

I’m not “looking for the perfect stick” out of problems with the JLF, Hayabusa, or LS40- I’ve just been enjoying experimenting with different flavors.

7

I don’t know what the point of this thread is, other than to wank, but I guess i’ll pull a gc and rant a bit.

overtime the ls-56 feels like shit. i may be overreacting, but i have issues with the short levers feeling “stuck” or crunchy over time. that’s the main reason i dropped it… it looks cool though, and is easier to install in a variety of mounts.

This may be the most shallow reason of all, but I like the LS-32 because it looks ‘classic’. It suits most candy cabs and arcade sticks aesthetically. The bare shaft (which with the newer stock is coated with a thin satin layer, to prevent rusting btw) is neutral and is visually non-contrasting unlike shiny black (JLF) or matte color (LS-40). I have extensively used LS-40’s, and I do think its better than LS-32 in some cases, but whatever, it doesn’t look as retro.

Also I play shmups. LS-32 is fun for shmups. HORI said so.

Last Tuesday and yesterday, two people asked me on tumblr on what seimitsu stick to try out. both felt LS-32 was clunky or had issues with diagonals. I told them to try out LS-40. Explained to them how similar the sticks are, but LS-40 had a smoother more “accurate” feel to it, less clunky because of the difference in material used for the gate. The other guy wanted something with an octo gate, so I told him to try out an LS-58 but warned him of how different Seimitsu octo gate is from JLF’s. See i’m not biased unlike some people, when someone asks, I try to help by suggesting whatever someone needs based on what they describe what they are "looking for " in a joystick. But all this talk and data is nothing, I tell the best way to find YOUR stick is to try it.

If I had it my way, everyone should be playing on JLF and stop complaining, that’s what most japanese players do.

#joystickpricks

8

You really need to play on your 32 more, they’re pretty different. I even ended up swapping out my ls-40 for one because it felt so off from the ls-32s I used to play on in the arcades that it was annoying me in KOF. Actuation distance is the main one (jlf > ls-32 >> jlf+kowal actuator >> ls-40) but even the spring and switches feel different, it’s weird.

I took both apart to find some sneaky way of making a better ls-32 out of a ls-40, and as far as I can tell the only non cosmetic difference is the distance between the pivot and the switches:

Meaning it takes smaller movements to hit the switches and gate in the 40.

There’s also the shaft height, but it doesn’t seem to matter as much somehow.

9

Ls-40 is better than Ls-32 for me…better engage distance and better pivot , that’s enough.
Maybe Ls-56/58 with squaregate is similar , but with octogate throw is better.

I really like Seimitsu to give us some different choise and i really don’t like jlf Sanwa and all sheep players they thinks they must do play with it because japanese players play with it.

10

The LS-40 is a bit taller in the body and shaft than the LS-32. The LS-32 has a shorter pivot, shorter body, and shorter shaft. These should equal out and it shouldn’t affect much. I’ll do more work on them tomorrow. I need to take these all apart and shit for the gate anyway.

Switches are springs are exactly the same. Same model # on the switches. Those can’t feel different. The tension on the spring is the same, too. Same distance from spring flange to actuator on both.

11

I prefer the LS-32 to the LS-40.
They Hayabusa feels like a tweaked LS-32 to me. Despite the greater throw, it’s more comfortable and accurate at catching the microswitches than the LS-32. I definitely feel the difference playing SSF2Turbo HD Remix playing with the Hayabusa. No comparison in the way it hits the corners; it feels better to me than the LS-32 or LS-40.

That said, the LS-32 is still a fine all-around joystick. I prefer the secondary restrictor gate on the LS-32 to the LS-40’s; more choices (although who’s going to use the two-gate when you can just ignore up-and-down on the four-way restrictor?), definitely feels better with the four-way restrictor on it than the LS-40’s. The secondary gate on the LS-40 doesn’t work as well IMHO. The stock square restrictor gates on the LS-32, LS-40, and Hayabusa definitely feel more comfortable than the JLF’s.
I’m really okay with the LS-40 on most games other than a few fighting games. I really feel at times that I’m fighting the stick on inputs. That affects some games more than others; people just don’t get it that different games have tweaked control input laws and timing. The build-quality of a joystick and switch activation does make playing with a stick that’s ‘not in your ideal zone’ harder than normal with some games. Control inputs and timing for some special moves are radically different within fighting game series going to back to SF2 and the big differences in control inputs that seemed to occur every two installment in that series. Again, that point gets lost a lot of people because I doubt most people have played all the major releases of SF2 unless they own the arcade/home compilation releases.
Activation force is definitely less on the LS-40 than the LS-32 and it has a shorter diameter roll, too. As much as the microswitches and spring are the same, the LS-40’s differences have to be based on the pivot bearing and the angle the actuator hits the microswitches at. It doesn’t hit the microswitches like the LS-32 does which is a good or a bad thing depending on what your personal level of comfort is. I definitely have more problems with the LS-40’s behavior than the LS-32.
The LS-56/-58 behavior is such that I discontinued using that joystick altogether like I did the JLF.

12

I felt the Sanwa switches are stiffer than Zippys

13

Agreed. Simple trig. Circumference is directly proportional to radius. So with all things, other than shaft length above pivot, being equal, the stick with the longer shaft will have shorter movements.
The question is what is the definition of throw? Is it the distance the pivot moves to the gate? Cos that would be same for both sticks :smiley:

Edit: By the way, I love these kinds of threads but I’d like it even more if the measurements were posted :tup:

14

I got a JLW because I’m such a curious cat, but I flat out didn’t like hated it. I plan on revisiting it again though, thanks for reminding me. So, you like this better than the Hayabusa?

15

Huh? I’m a little lost here.

The shaft length below the pivot on both sticks is the same, so there shouldn’t be any different in how they hit the switches.

The main reason the shaft length above the pivot is shorter is that the body is shorter. LS-40 is longer because the body is longer. When mounted, they should both be relatively the same, giving you the same range of circumferential motion.

On the other hand, above the mounting plate, the shaft is 1 mm longer on the LS-40. So I guess there should be a little extra “range” of motion, at least above the mounting plate, on the LS-40. Besides that and the pivot, the sticks are like for like.

By the way, Hayabusa is not compatible with S-plates. :frowning: Too wide by a few mm.

16

+1 on JLW. I’ve moved on the the Ultistik, the main pro being that it is a hall effect JLW with a built in encoder board at a great price.

17

I think the Sanwa switches are stiffer than BOTH the Zippyy LS-32 clone and the brand name LS-32 switches.
In fact, I DON’T like the switches on the Zippyy. Their brand name is Jindu and they’re softer than the LS-32 Matsushita microswitches. Other fact that I don’t care for – I have two Zippyy’s and the microswitches are inconsistent between the two Zippyy’s I own. One Zippy has softer switches than the other and is harder for me to use. It’s ‘okay’ on games so long as they’re aren’t fighting games! The ‘better’ Zippyy is useable on fighting games but it’s still noticeably lighter on the touch than the LS-32. I actually have to work a bit harder with the Zippyy to use it well.
Another thing about the Zippyy is the lighter-tension spring. I prefer the LS-32 spring… I’ve also noticed that the spring retainer on the Zippyy tends to trap and stretch the Zippyy spring a bit. Once that spring gets stretched out, it’ll never go back to its original size. It’s one of the most inelastic springs I’ve used. (And to quote Mr. Horse, “No sir, I don’t like it!”)
Moral of the lesson I learned: spend a little bit more and stick with the brand-name joystick OR upgrade the microswitches if they’re giving you trouble. For the cost of the switch upgrades, you might as well absorb the additional cost and just buy the LS-32 (or Hayabusa if you can find that joystick anywhere).

18

Seimitsu has only 2 pivot designs for all of their sticks, including the oldschool NeoGeo one. The only “new” pivot is used on 40 and the same pivot design is used on the all other Seimitsu models (that uses a pivot).

The 32 and 40 actually feels very different, 32 shaft is a bit heavier the throw and engagement is really different at least by feel. The 40 engages faster and feels tight, this causes a bigger range of diagonals and that’s why they say the 40 is a unforgiving stick for fighting game. There are people that can play very well on the 40 but the diagonal thing is true, you can notice that if you circle the shaft around. Do that on both sticks and you will notice an more proportional/fair range for all directions on the 32 one. (JLF and old Hori sticks are totally the oposite of 40, smaller diagonal range of japanese sticks due the lack of levers, main feature that makes them a less recommended piece for the “unforgiving” oldschool games like mvs kof, real bout, cps2 sfa series, etc).

Also, as for the spring being the same, it means nothing, the ls-40 has a bit lighter and thinner shaft but if the 40’s body would induce a smaller distance between the spring cover untill the actuator’s spring base, means that the spring would be pressed tighter til you are able to close the e-clip, which would cause more tension anyway.

I agree about measurements, i know very well both of them, but for some reason…engagement differences are easily noticed by playing for a while on each one.

19

Spring tension is the same. The distance from the pivot to the spring cover is the same. The same spring is under the same tension. The differences in the two sticks bodies have no bearing on this because it’s what’s below the pivot on the shaft that counts. The radii on the gates are the same, with the same diameter on the actuators. There is no reason anyone should be having corner trouble on one stick vs the other.

I think the extra 1 mm height on the 40 could make it seem harder to do diagonals over a 32 since there would be a tad bit more range to the motion, but no more so than a JLF. The 40 probably gives the illusion of stopping earlier, but both sticks will stop at the same point. I will have to do a visual diagram to show. I don’t think the 40 is unforgiving at all.

20

Oh boy…
Famous last words!

I would never tell anybody the LS-40 is like the LS-32… They’re very different beasts.
I don’t like the LS-40 as much as the LS-32 but then again the LS-40 isn’t the LS-56/-58, either. The LS-56/-58 is definitely on the WAY too far outside of my own comfort zone for fight sticks… That wouldn’t be my first choice let alone the fifth or sixth recommendation. More people are probably going to have problems with the LS-56/-58 series than they will with the JLF, LS-32, or Hayabusa…
If you like the short throws and tighter activation, the LS-40 is probably closer to optimum for you. (Would never recommend the LS-56/-58 at this point in time. If you have problems as-is with the LS-40, they’re only going to be worse on the LS-56/-58 which has yet tighter activation and shorter diameter roll.) If you like more moderate throw with more forgiving engage/activation, the LS-32 or Hayabusa are probably better choices.
IF you’re heavy-handed on inputs, I’d think the LS-32 or Hayabusa would be better joysticks to practice with. I think recommending the JLF, LS-40, or LS-56/-58 would lead just lead to frustration for heavy-handed players.
(Funny enough, I think the JLF issue for me is the gate… in most other matters it feels like the LS-32. The roll is about the same… activation would be close but I’m definitely running into issues with the gate which isn’t the problem I have with some of the LS-joysticks. The JLF gate is one thick, ugly hunk of plastic that the actuator scrapes along… I’m just not feeling that on the LS-joysticks or the Hayabusa.)
I’m thinking more people fall on the LS-32 side of the fence when it comes to joystick preference within the Seimitsu family. I’ve personally had more timing issues with the LS-40 because of the shorter activation distance. The shorter roll doesn’t bug me as much but it is how amazing how different model sticks with so many of the same parts feel with just a few short changes here and there.

If I were going from LS-40 to Hayabusa I could see problems getting used to the Hayabusa there but it wasn’t an issue for me transitioning from LS-32 to Hayabusa and back. The two sticks are like close cousins to me with the newer controller nailing down the more serious build and performance issues the LS-32 had where I’m concerned. That said, I’m still keeping my -32’s in at least half my joystick collection and in the universal PCB sticks I own. For me, the Hayabusa has only solidified the fact that my comfort/personal preference is more along the performance characteristics of the LS-32.

But no matter how you slice it, the LS-40 does NOT feel like the LS-32. I think jaquio summed it up about as clearly as anybody can short of X-raying the joysticks while they’re being used…