Low health is making the game boring and anti-climatic

Jaded a little?

A casual fighter FORCED in a competitive scene because its made by capcom….”

Everyone who doesn’t like marvel isn’t playing it, just because you feel forced to play it because the majority are don’t blame capcom for making a both entertaining and good game. I mean sure we could always get other companies that make such good games like EA or someone to attempt to make a marvel game. Oh wait

Play mvc2 or whatever game you feel is superior, just don’t complain about how bad everything else is on a forum in hopes of changing those who play it minds.

Oh and don’ forget that capcom made bought sf4/mvc2/3rd strike and more than likely whatever your favorite fighter in the US is.

This needs to be on front page. Thank you good sir…or lady!

Edit: I love this post so much.

TL;DR: As far as human capabilities are concerned. Fighting games are random. If a human being tries to jab through Zero’s jumping C, more often than not, Magneto is dead, regardless of the Mag player’s reaction time and study of the game.

In a CPU vs CPU match, nothing is random, but as long as these games are made for humans, Zero’s jumping C will be mad scrubby, sorry bro.

um…what? a CPU vs CPU match would be far more random than a person trying to jab through an attack with tons of active frames. nothing about that is random because, as you said, it is more often than not going to go one way rather than the other

Hsien-ko’s items aren’t truly random.

Trying to jab through Zero j.H isn’t random it’s stupid. Not quit the same thing. The move is very good but there’s absolutely nothing random about it. I could look through the new testament and without having ever played most of the characters pick out what moves exist in the game that will likely beat it out. Then one would hit up training mode and verify which of those moves do in fact work against it. Too many people seem to expect that pressing buttons = victory and start bawling like a little kid with a skinned knee when that doesn’t work.

Why are you so mad? There are plenty of other games to play if you don’t like this one, like I said.

Why would you be mad at other people playing this game? That’s what I’m getting at here. I’m not saying you can’t “talk bad” about the game, but don’t act superior by disregarding it, and understand that this game isn’t for you. The high damage is enjoyed and respected by many, if you don’t want to play a game like that, then find your game elsewhere. This certainly isn’t the first touch of death game either.

Not everyone has to play every game. I don’t know why people think they do and get mad when every game doesn’t cater to their preferences and the things they value.

so because the fighting game scene is becoming less exclusive everything is terrible? that mentality of elitism just reeks of “i just want to be part of this super cool elite group of people who dedicate 18+ hours a day to becoming good at fightan gaemz.” casualization is not necessarily a bad thing. sounds to me like you just don’t want competition from someone you think is “beneath” you because they don’t put as much time into the game as you do.

Well considering that you needed to state that everyone you played against was above the age of 10, I have strong reason to suspect how valid your competition was.

s

strong grasp on fighting game mechanics? knowing and not knowing combos has nothing to do with solid spacing, footsies, and just simple good blocking. it’s not like any of those things are lost because every character can lmhs mmhs hyper to victory

I think you are confusing ignorance with facetiousness. Most people don’t think jabbing through Zero’s jumping C is random, which it’s not. It’s simply an exaggeration to show that the Zero user may or may not have known that Magneto was going to jab, or block, or jump away… In almost every case, performing jumping S is a great idea.

Is this random? No.

Is this a terrible design choice? Yes.

Does using the term “random” to describe this situation make sense? No.

Does this realization make Zero’s jumping S hinder the metagame less? No.

the problem isn’t that Zero has a strong tool. It’s that jumping S into standing B into character kill works if the S hits air to ground, air to air, accidental crossup, crossup air to air, and it’s great advantage on block. The lack of hit confirms in this game annoy many players, and they may use the wrong term to describe it, but it’s still retarded.

Hulk is not about grabbing really.
And you can at least combo out of Haggar’s grabs now, so there is a point is using them

Your fundamentals at anime fighting games could also just be that good. Skill from one fighting game tends to transfer over to another.

Or you could just be bullshitting about their skill. Combo videos usually do not use techniques that are applicable in actual matches.

People hate Marvel because they make stupid decisions when playing the game. The thing that people don’t realize about Capcom games in general is that their incredibly strategy based. Even for fast games like Marvel, strategy and decision making is far more important than combos. In SF2 to SFIV, to Alpha 3, to everything, this is just the case. A lot of newer games are mainly freestyle games, converting hits into damage, abare and such. But Capcom games are very good about having you manage your resources by making the biggest resources something you can only do one per match.

In SSFIV, there are many ultras that are free escapes out of pressure. For example, Bison’s nightmare scissor ultra helps him escape pressure situations. But keep in mind he can probably only use it once. And since Bison’s damage is overall low, he loses his only high damage option. Getting the second ultra is highly unlikely if not impossible, so if he loses it, he loses a big advantage in a lot of matches.

Xfactor is pretty much like the super you can really only use once. Except it’s a hard coded limitation. You literally can’t activate 5 X-factors in a match. So if you use your X-Factor early, then you pretty much lose. That is why this decision making is important, because now that the X-factor is gone you may find yourself pressured, or you may find it hard to land a clean hit.

I like Marvel when people bother to build a team based on a gameplan or strategy. While other games have it, I really do think the gameplan can be mult-tiered. For example in CVS2, while you did have a concept of a battery character, your middle character (who had a solid game plan and didn’t need to use meter) and an anchor (who has insane damage, but may require the most meter to be scary), this had to be done sequentially. Meaning if your opponent put Sagat in third place, and you know that Sagat is the biggest problem on his team, you have to beat his other 2 team mates to get there.

Marvel makes this same strategy more interesting with assist and snapouts. If your character is running Wesker last to get Dark Wesker XF lvl3, then you can get a clean hit on his point character and snap in Wesker and try to kill him. You can also do what I do and build a team around chip damage. So when my opponent can’t get in and don’t want to eat chip, they activate Xfactor early, making me less likely to deal with herp derp lvl3 later down the line.

There is a lot of creativity in Marvel and high damage makes that creativity work. If I snapped in Wesker, ran a mixup, what is the point when I’m only going to do a miniscule 15% damage and I had to have all the dexterity in the world to land the mixup and combo? It doesn’t. At that point you shouldn’t have worried about snapping him in in the first place. And at this point dark Wesker is coming out no matter what you do. You can say you can run a 3rd or 4th or 5th mixup, but he has a high probability of blocking those mixups at some point and possibly escaping.

Remember meter is SO important in Marvel.  The issue people have in Marvel is that they don't have the freedom to just do what they want.  If you activate Xfactor early to save your first character, then you're going to have issues down the line.   I have a friend who hates Marvel, but he makes a lot of poor decisions in Marvel as well.  For example he doesn't have a team that's based on an anchor, someone who builds meter, or even has a strong assist.   His team is built around characters he likes and what combos he wants to do.   When I zone him out with Dorm, and he has to block a tons of chip trying to get in, he now feels he's forced to burn his Xfactor early. 

Marvel does have randomness, but only in certain situtions and at certain ranges. If Wesker (whom I consider to have a huge amount of randomness built into him) is across the screen, he has less damage he can do. At that point he NEEDs an assist to make full screen gameplay worth it. Otherwise need needs to get in. So my gameplan is to prevent him from getting in to prevent random buttons he may press that can turn into big damage. Marvel is about randomness elimination. That’s why strong mixups are important in this game. If me and my opponent ran at each other linearly, then the game would be super random. But since there is different movment options, then now I have to setup my offense. If he wants to call a beam assist across the screen, I can counter that assist durability, or counter his projectile game with a angled projectile.

 People don't think about Marvel (or games period) in depth.  That is why guys like Viscant (who has bad execution but superb strategy and analysis) win in these games.   If the game was newb friendly, a guy like Viscant couln't win because strategy is not in a newb vocabulary.     People see marvel and think it's just a showcase for their cool and neat combo, and that tends to become the focus.  When they can't do that, or they constantly put themselves in situations where they can be randomed out, then they complain.  Obviously you must eliminate that randomness options from their team.   People don't apply that strategy to that game, which is why people like me (who suck at the game) can still beat people who put way more time in.

This doesn’t prove a thing, in fact what it does is reinforce the point that the game isn’t scrubby or random. Clearly your more skilled “naturally” than your friends even if they are combo video junkies. If your talking about winning 5 out of 25 games then that means nothing.

Is it the same with older games? mvc2? 3s? cvs2? If so I think you just answered your own question… But I question if you got beat in older games that everyone played and now even though you don’t play or own this game you’ve turned the tables around and are now beating them free…? Questionable

From here it sounds like your saying the most skilled player is gonna win, regardless of the game.

edit: also when i say marvel isn’t random…I mean over all. umvc3 has a ton of randomness to it(not true randomness) But the randomness people cry about is super fast left right double overheads and unblockables. that all can happen in a instant and or super fast.

Not only that alot of times a “smart” decision can get blow up by a xfactor into death of a character or a team. It makes people roll there eye’s even me as a player…But really its just more food for thought the next time.

“Doing something that would generally have been smart and game winning in another game got me killed in marvel…so random”

Having good defense in umvc3 only gets you sofar, you can only block for so long… have good offense only gets you so far, having good meter management and execution…only sofar. Take one of those traits and plug in into SF4 and you are probably a leg up on half the competition

In MVC3, people think combos are everything. It’s weird because they can play games like SFIV and realize that you can’t center your gameplay around combos. But in Marvel since combos require a bit more, then they scrutinize combos more. In Championship Edition, if I jumped in with Guile and did a jump in heavy, c.mp xx flashkick, that was a character is now close to stun, and are going to eat 45-50% damage. That’s only 3 hits. Hell in world wariors, Zangiefs spinning pile drive did 2/3rd of the opponent life, and that’s one move. That’s not even a combo. In older games like ST you could stun your opponent in one combo and the damage wasn’t modest, nor was the combo really all that hard to pull off. And 3s, you could take a good amount of life from someone with a hit cofirm to SA, and those combos weren’t hard to pull off.

Basically how easy or hard a combo is to pull off should not be a measuring stick to how good or bad a game is. Yeah there are game like Guilty Gear and other Anime games that maken bnbs fairly hard. But keep in mind, execution is only one part of the game.

You have two different types of games, execution games and strategy games.  All games have some sort of strategy even if it is shallow, but it exist.  I don't think a lot of anime games have much strategy (but they have high execution requirements).  I don't think a lot of Capcom games have much execution, but they require a lot of strategy.   Really it's all about picking what you like and what you choose to complain about.  If you are the guy who loves doing flashy combos in matches and think only that should get you by in a game, then you shouldn't be playing Marvel.  I would argue you shouldn't even be competitive.  There are tons of execution masters who suck at games.  I mean guys like Desk are more known for their great execution and combo videos than their actual gameplay.

It’s not what time you put in the game, but how you use it. Always been my model. When I pick up a game, I practice what I need to know. But I work on my reactions and matchups, and learn how to deal with moves that give me problems. That’s why I can beat my friend who can spend about 10 hours a day getting his combos down. I think what I practice is far more valuable than what he practice. Now if we were playing a game like Guilty Gear, well that 10 hours a day combo practice would benefit him a lot more. But even then, I think at some point you’re going to have to stop doing the combos and focus on your general strategy.

In every game there are scrub tactics and scrub killing tactics.  In CVS2 they were roll throw tactics, in MVC2 it was essentially random launchers, in mvc3 its the same problem as it is in 2.   Basically if you want to consider yourself good, you have to learn to stop losing to scrub tactics.  There is definitely an issue with someone doing ABC combos in MVC3.  For one they don't gain meter, and 2 they lose meter.  They're also giving you meter.  If you were smart you'd find a way to use that against them.  I love it when someone hits me and all they have for me is an ABC combo.  Because I know I'm not going to get 1 touched if I just do an unsafe raw tag, and I'm probably going to get some meter out of it.  When the time is right I just blow their ass right up.

But hey, in these games people are more concerned about what they want to do that they aren't paying a lot of attention to what their opponent is doing.  That is why most critics of the game probably play with no strategy.  I mean if I want to have two gimp chacters and rely on ultimate dark wesker lvl3, it's a strategy.  It not like there is nothing you can do about it.  It just you chose not to do anything about it.   I've seen people do long ass combos to people who have phoenix teams, hit the other guy like 17 billion times, and Phoenix comes in with 5 bars.  Is it his fault that you were too stupid to snap her ass in?  Is it his fault you have practice strong mixups on incoming characters?  Is it his fault you pick characters who have seeable and slow mixups?  Nope, it's yours.

The combo argument gets old. I played MVC2 and Guilty Gear. And those games at the lowest levels have simple ass combos too. There is so much combo creativity in Guilty Gear that a total scrub can do combos (they’re all techable and probably do no damage). In MVC2, I can launch magic series, which is not at all hard to do. When people throw these games up and say these games required a lot of exeuction, I laugh. Both games are littered with scrubby tactics at low levels, and there are gimmicks in both games at intermediate and low levels. But alas, that’s the generation we live in. We see Yipes and Justin Wong play Marvle doing Sentinel reflies, and see Yipes doing fly fierces and crossunder mixups with Mags, and we think everyone who plays marvel needs to know that to play. Or we see Ogawa’s Eddie, and we think we need execution at that level to even pick up a stick in that game. Bullshit. You can probably scrub your way through a shitload of people with simple shit in both games. You just won’t beat Wong or Yipes or Ogawa or Kaqn. But hell you wouldn’t beat the best players in MVC3 with scrub tactics either.

There is thor, hagger, hulk, tron, she hulk, chris, spencer, tasks, nemesis and others the more bullshit you have the lower your health i.e zero, strider, vergil, dr strange etc.

You know what?

I disagree with many of the points in Brahn’s post too. How about you actually prove him wrong instead of going “nope”. You don’t have to quote his giant-ass wall of text, you can just look at his basic points and argue them.

I have not read all the walls of text in this thread yet, but I’m going to come in with a simple point.

I was running my Jill/Frank/Strider team today, and like always, was soaping up dat ass clean. Ran into a Dorm, Dante, Hulk 8th lord. In ultimate for my team, Hulk is scary as all hell, so Jill ends up screwing up a reg. Jump cancel on Dorm (who had like half HP left) so she goes from FULL HEALTH to Dead. FROM ONE MISTAKE.

Anywhoo’s, Frank puts in dat work, and kills off Dorm and dante yet looses to an xfactor’d Hulk. Strider comes in, and I’m on Hulk like a white man on cheese. I catch Hulk in Strider’s Formation B, 623L loop, but screw the last one up and Hulkrolls behind strider and I eat ONE COMBO and die. REALLY? A Player, in my player, shouldn’t be rewarded for such easy shit as the crap That some characters can pull of for such Huge damage. It would be better, in my opinon if they took the Blazblue path and made heavy characters control the screen more and rely on resets and shit, rather than just saying:

“HEY, DIS GUY IS TOO SLOW” "
“NO PROBLEM MENG, JUST BUFF HIS DAMAGE 20%”

Tager is nothing to aspire to in terms of balance.
This is more in the proper line of thinking
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