181

As a pure spectator of the game I feel damage is an interesting issue. Personally I feel damage is in a good place for MOST of the cast with only a few exceptions being too high. I also feel like Wesker needs to get less benefit from xfactor. Watching matchs with Wesker without glasses and xf3 is retarded. He deals so much damage and moves so fast.

182

Lower stamina for certain characters has always pissed me off since MVC2. I can understand some like Hulk & Thor having higher than average, but everyone else below them should just have average stamina damnit.

Not all the stamina differences make sense either. You’re telling me Frank West is legitmently going to have higher than the likes of Ghost Rider, Dante, Virgil, Wolverine, Shuma, and Firebrand? Really? :rolleyes:

It especially sucks when your favorite characters are handicapped by this. I don’t care what the excuse or explanation is, its BS… and i don’t like it.

183

If you want higher health than you need to lose out on stronger abilities or more options. If Strider had the same health as Frank West would there EVER be a reason besides fandom to pick frank over strider, given the fact frank has to level up and strider is good right out of the box? Or if Akuma in SF4 had the same health as Ryu, could you honestly tell me that there would be anyone picking Ryu over Akuma?

184

Perhaps its just me but i play the characters i like, even if they aren’t the best, and focus on getting better with them.

Speaking of which, what of Authur? His trash mobility makes him easy pickings for a good rushdown player, and there are other characters with better projectile game. Could at least be given average health.

185

When someone is going to try and shove their misinformed opinion down your throat with overdone hyperbole, then i’m not about to respond with a long well thought out retort unless it becomes actually necessary. 3 posts down I actually go into the detail to explain myself in much greater detail without the sarcastic hyperbole. I put most of that sentence in caps for a reason, but then again it’s the internet and sometimes your text doesn’t actually come across with the same intent as you would think. Either way I’m not sure why you are nitpicking one sentence from an overall point about the ignorance of the stance being taken by the topic creator. If I hadn’t clarified in much greater detail in my very next post I suppose I could see your point, but oh well, i’m not nearly important enough in the FGC to be trying to please everyone.

186

Your posts (I read all of them before I responded) came out as degrading GG in an attempt to justify MVC3, and knowing you as a GG player it struck a nerve.
MVC3 does have design problems, and maybe that dude does not comprehend them or just can’t explain them well, but your posts presented a very narrow view and compared the 2 games in a flawed way, which I can debunk but this thread is not the place to do it.
And again- It irritated me exactly become I know who you are so I had respond.

187

This an interesting topic. There are more games where characters have the same health/defense than games that do not. Personally, I think vitality is a poor balancing tool and that justifying overpowered characters by making them die quickly doesn’t work. Of course, there are times where it does add to the game and make it interesting and I wouldn’t force every game to have same health for everyone because I enjoy the variety and difference in approach to making a fighting game.

188

You are kidding right? If you honestly think i was “degrading” GG to justify MvC3 you’ve misunderstood the point I was making, which is fine. Sorry if you feel that way, but that’s simply not the case.

189

My first infraction! Hell ya! Lol and I got it for counter trolling a dude who trolled me after I dare to defend the op… who was being trolled by everyone. Looks like it’s back to only posting in the marvel 2 forums for a couple years… doing anything else on srk.com these days feels like 4chan… no way to hold the tongue and not get infracted I guess.

Thanks to the OG’s who got my point to begin with… It did not go w/out notice.

190

Well I guess it was a misunderstanding but the “high damage in Marvel” is actually very different from “high damage in GG” because of how the game is built so when you say “GG has high damage too and that game is good so high damage is fine.” is not a real answer, and it makes GG looks simplified to the reader who doesn’t know shit and gets the impression that it’s like the MVC3 he knows when it really isn’t.
Basically the comparison was half-assed to begin with, but you continued with that line of thought even if you didn’t mean to.

191

No, see the point I was trying to make is that the topic poster brought up GG and BB as his games when his complaint is about high damage games, which is a really stupid comparison to make. None of my posts here are going out of the way to Defend Marvel3. While I play the game and think it’s entertaining I am more than aware of it’s many flaws (which may or may not be in the process of being improved with Ultimate, only time will tell). And I would still MUCH rather GG was a game the vast majority of the nation was picking up and streaming tournaments for right now.

None of my points are about GG vs MvC3 or GG > Marvel, or anything of that notion. My points were that this poster with a very narrow minded and rather scrubby take on what he thinks makes MvC3 a “bad game” can’t be backed up by the idea that “oh i play guilty gear, i don’t know what you are talking about when you try to defunct my argument by saying i should go play SF4 or CvS2”. I’m simply pointing out that to say that (in his opinion) being able to convert high damage opportunites off safe and solid normals or pokes is boring and scrubby, makes no sense when he says the main games he play have offenses that can also often revolve around that very same playstyle.

Then when the guy who apparently made an account just to call me out on those statements decided to be a smartass and tell me I have no examples of said damage conversion for guilty gear, I listed out some simple examples to make the point that, yes, in fact, I do actually know a thing or two about the game. Basically, this guy called himself a gear player and then complained about the ability to convert high damage combos, which is really hypocritical, and on top that his scrubby/trollish attitude in this thread opens up the opportunity to give real GG players a bad rap. That’s not something I like to see. My post aren’t about comparing the two games, they are about saying: “Hey, if you don’t like the high damage output off easy hit confirms in marvel, that’s fine, but don’t use a game that itself offers up that same ability to many characters as your freaking example of a counter-argument”.

Sorry if you took my points out of context but I think you zoomed in on the fact that there were some comparisons and examples of the two games as the whole reason for my posts, and not the broader point that this guys argument made no sense, and makes someone who calls themselves a guilty gear player look really bad. Seriously man, I’m one of the hosts for a podcast that does nothing about have old dudes talking about how GG is our favorite fighter ever and that all we want is that game to be the main game again. Do you really think I’d start ragging on it just to try and justify that an issue that many people (rightfully so) have with MvC3 is ok? Again, I think it’s just a misunderstanding, so my bad for that regardless of how it looked.

192

Yeah man, you’re right, I should start jumping around with Sol spamming j.P, confirming into an easy meterless 50% if it hits. So easy! I’ve been playing GG wrong this whole time.

And no, you didn’t give examples of big combos off Sol 2D and May j.S (2D -> GF is not possible without CH). The whole point of this thread is how ANY hit in MVC3 turns into big damage, not a small set of launchers. How can you still not understand this? You’re not making the distinction between “high damage” and “high damage from anything”. SamSho has ridiculous damage potential too, would you call that a touch of death game? How about SF4? Shoryu FADC Ultra does a ton of damage, guess it’s a retarded high damage game, just like Marvel!

Also, funny how you mention that podcast - you guys just spend the whole time shitting on AC. lol. If I wanted to get someone into the game, your podcast would be the LAST thing I’d link them to.

193

Funny to watch a whole new generation of players get trolled by grandabx. Good times.

The whole “any random hit in MvC3 turns into character death” is a nice piece of hyperbole that needs to go by the wayside. As much as you want it to be true, it’s not.

194

Klaige, you can keep fighting with them but I tell you it’s just a problem of communication.
If they were able to explain the problem in a way you’d really understand what they are trying to say, you’d be probably agreeing with them.

Soon I’m intending to compile a write-up about MVC3 that will try to explain the problems in the game design which are harder to describe, and I hope to hear from you after you read it and share your view.

195

just commenting on what i know
i can literally say, he didn’t degrade Guilty gear he just used what he knows and compared its not the only game that had the feature.

*A lot of you are acting like you can smash your stick against your face and do 3 100% combos and get perfect everytime you pop the marvel 3 disk in, that sit ain’t the case. *If thats the case, go make that money

and you can’t compare generally high damage to a comeback system. x-factor to ultra yeah, as something that gets stronger the longer you wait but one packs MUCH more an advantage then the other. shoryu fadc ultra does damage. yeah its an ultra, to gain maximum damage off of you need to be near death. if it did the damage of a combo what would even be the point of having it?
i really dislike people talking down ultras so hard to the point where they feel like. “i can lose the entire match than you one 500 damage combo and win the match.” when that’s certainly not the case, because i really don’t think anyone that played passed vanilla and treated characters the same with ultra the same as without or rose would win every match with illusion spark.
but lets not get me started on how people hate games just because they exist passed a certain date and have newer features. luckily i wasn’t around for all the clay fighter hate.

anywho
**we got trolled and are going to continue to get trolled the more games we drag into a non-nonsensical argument because regardless of how you feel (which is all you have to post, not refute someone else’s opinion.) the game isn’t gonna change. **

196

That’s not really accurate. You have 3 characters, so really a 65-70% combo is more like a 21% to 23% combo when you look at overall life. Compare it to games like the new Mortal Kombat where 70-80% comboes are possible on the one and only character you’re allowed to choose. Marvel also has red life recovery through tag out and x-factor, which softens the impact of comboes even more. Ironically, even though marvel is generally known as the game full of infinites and TOD comboes, it’s actually better at preventing them than most 1 on 1 fighting games. Think about it, even if you take out an entire character in one combo you’ve only taken out 33% of the opponent’s overall life. It’s essentially a hard cap on damage.

Damage is actually relatively low in marvel, what makes it seem so high are the tools the characters have to open people up and deal damage. If SF4 had air dashes and chain comboes into ultra, damage would look ridiculously high in that game as well, even if the actual damage from the moves stayed the same or was lowered. The best way to put it is an rpg concept - DPS. Marvel has a higher DPS ratio than most other games. It’s not that the comboes themselves take too much damage. It’s the frequency in which they are landed that makes it seem that way.

I think Marvel’s damage is just right as it is right now. Due to the additional damage scaling that was added in on supers and especially normals, it’s become harder to TOD people without some kind of build up or meter gain first. Most of the TOD comboes developed for UMVC3 so far require a lot of meter, long combo strings, decent execution, and/or x-factor to pull off. I also don’t think that there are any more TODs that can be initiated at the start of the match when you only have a single meter. This was not the case in mvc3 where you could land any hit with Magneto, do rom loop into the corner, dhc glitch into whatever and kill the whole character outright while gaining back the meter you just spent. This is an important change because even if you take out 99% of a character’s life, chances are if he tags out he’ll be able to gain almost half of it back.

197

So in a UMVC3 forum there’s no place to talk about UMVC3’s design?
How does it bother you as long as it’s inside just one thread, and all the rest of the threads are dedicated to getting better at the game?

198

If you have a problem with the damage do what I do and don’t play this shitty game.

I’m amazed that a game this bad has stayed this popular for this amount of time.

199

Perhaps a little exaggerated but for a good player that knows the system, all it takes is 1-hit for 50%-70% life. Because that turns into an air combo, which leads to a hard knockdown(Free OTGs you say? Don’t mind if ahh do), which leads to more air combos, more OTGs, supers, etc.

It becomes like a cut-scene for the other player who can only watch his character get destroyed.

sigh just get rid of hard knock downs, and give players the ability to roll away whenever they like(like MVC2). That one change would go a mighty long way. Make players actually WORK for that OTG.

That too much to ask capcom?

200

it doesn’t bother me.Thats what a forum is for. he’s not discussing the design of the game. neither are we at this point, everyones just quoting eachother making comparisons to other games to be right or wrong.

literally klaige posted because the dude said “i play other fighters, other fighters don’t have this or they’d be boring and brain dead” and instead of
"discussing the design of marvel 3", (which has almost exclusively been it’s not x and it’s not y and it does z differently) there are just posts retelling him marvel and GG aren’t the same, which he never claimed.

i’m one poster, its just my opinion that there’s a very distinct difference between

1- “marvel 3’s high damage is interesting, im not a fan of it because the matches are a bit quicker then i’d like as the rest of the system encourages using all means at your disposal to lengthen your combos and be flashy while the high damage restricts the level of flash and length of said combos”

&

2- "marvel 3 is random trash because the damage is high its not like X,Y,Z game. In x,y,z, game it didn’t feel as random because you couldn’t do things that are high damage but in this game you can. I’m a X game player and yadda yadda "

which sounds more like discussing design and which sounds more like being sore, which is why a majority of the posts in the thread are “don’t play the game”.

The first can lead to a discussion where comparison can lead to neither game being superior but people expressing their opinions on it and bringing up valid points while the second literally leads to bashing a game by saying its not good because it isn’t something else.

Its truly sad because i do not disagree with the original poster at all. his arguments are just plain stank and shitty, and i’m posting on the board to say, his opinion while i agree with it are based on nonsensical methods of deduction.

And to more directly answer your question, every thread here is about UMVC3’s design. the tier thread, general discussion, almost every post, even some in the character forums there are endless amounts of posts that criticize the game not by bashing it and comparing it to other games but simply stating facts about it. Hell vanillas UI was some of the most counter intuative I’ve seen for a fighting game thus far.
We’ve been discussing how high the damage was since at about LATEST the earlier quarter of vanillas life cycle?