Low health is making the game boring and anti-climatic

[scytheavatar]

lol you’re trying too hard to play like you don’t know. let me help you: high damage + ease of damage = easy momentum shifts = very thin line between pro and average player.

It’s the other way round, easy momentum shifts means that the non-pros slip up, drop combos, make stupid tactical decisions and don’t know how to take advantage of the comeback chances given to them. While the pros even when they are down early always know how to make comebacks whenever they are given a slight chance. A small margin of error means that this game is a lot more demanding on the mental attributes of a player and the non-pros choke a lot more.

[Thancruz]

It’s hard to believe “lol nothing but magic series launch magic series super” thread no. 21223214212214 is still being brought up 9 months later.

[scytheavatar]

It’s even harder to believe that someone is whining about what that is done in EVO 2011, when this is a new game. Can the mods please consider closing this thread because the TC doesn’t seem to be talking about UMvC3?

[Klaige]

I play guilty gear + blazblue so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m going to call your argument completely void then if you aren’t completely bullshitting here. Good Gear players convert a single hit into 50%+ EVERY GODDAMN TIME, and Blazblue is essentially “convert random hit into full combo” : The Game.

Look if you want to say you think the damage in Marvel is too high, that’s fine, there are ways you could at least attempt to justify that position. However do not go shitting up forums with this lying crap by calling yourself a Guilty Gear player, and then complaining about high damage offensive potential in a fighting game. There is not a single solid Gear player that would even think of going “Man games that let you convert a single hit into massive damage sure are boring, I wouldn’t be caught dead playing one of those”.

You’ve basically destroyed any validity you have throughout the rest of this discussion, so you might as well call it a day.

Also if you really are a Guilty Gear player, do the rest of our community a favor and shut up, because you obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about. We don’t want ignorant folk like you even associating yourselves with our favorite game.

[frustratedsquirrel]

Random? UMVC3 is not random. There is no RNG system in this game other than Phoenix wright and Hsein ko items. Everything else is entirely up to the players.

This is random : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqNGntaer-M&feature=related

Making a mistake, no matter how small, is not random.

[Reddies]

bullshit

The argument against MVC3 in this thread is that ANY hit at high level play can turn into 100%. Like, literally any melee hit, including max range crouching L at round start conditions with nearly all characters. THAT is what makes it boring for some people. This is not even remotely true for GG. Yes there are a lot of big combo starters but the safe, spammable attacks like jabs and mid-range pokes require a CH, air hit, or meter to convert, and the few characters who CAN get big damage off small hits are the exception, not the rule.

Or maybe I don’t understand the game at all and there’s a round-start 50% combo I can do off a Sol 2D? Or air-to-air May jS? Could you name them please?

[Klaige]

To sit there and say that every hit confirmed jab in MvC3 is an atuo ToD is pretty ridiculous hyperbole wouldn’t you say? Even a character like Wesker who many people consider to be some of the easiest and straight forward damage in the game will need a ton of meter + assists for DHC/Level 3 to auto kill a character off. I’m not disputing that Marvel has absolutely massive damage output off of single clean hits, what I am calling out is this bullshit argument that Guilty Gear is the polar opposite of that style. Now before I go any further and start showing you similarities, make no mistake: I consider Gear to be the greatest series of fighting games ever made. I would much rather play Gear a 100 times over than play MvC3, but I’m not gonna sit here and listen to some jackass claim he’s a guilty gear player and then bitch about converting a single hit into a very high damage combo.

Marvel and Gear have a lot of similarities in damage conversion, if you play at high level and recognize your hit confirms AND have resources to spend, you will convert extremely high damage combos. In Marvel those resources being Assists, Meter, and X-factor. In Gear the resource being meter for RC/FRC. Just to emphasize my point, i’ll start listing off some situations gear characters have involving safe easy tactics that can be converted into high damage combos with ease.

Eddie - Safe pokes into drill perssure, the second he knocks you down it’s probably worse than 50%, good ones will make that end the round.
Testament - Forward EXE beast is +9 on block, if it hits you, it’s 45%+ into a poisoned knockdown and a nasty okizeme setup If he throws you 35%+ and the same situation
Slayer - Lol, pick a button, did it hit you? You’re eating half bar.
Jam - Mini slayer, also if you eat FB puffball you’re eating 60%
Potemp - Got touched by slide head and he has 25% bar? 35% and knocked down into a nasty 50/50.
Baiken - Any number of safe air and ground pokes (J.S, 5S, 2D, J.H) leads into instant corner loop for 35-40% plus knockdown and more pressure
Robo - Robo Dash, Pony Dash, J.S, J.H all offer up easy to use moves that will convert into 40% or more with 25% meter.
ABA - Once she’s in Moroha mode, uh yea, throw what you want, if you touch them it’s well over 50% and even worse if you have bar.
May - I can’t believe you even chose this as an example. She has some of the best “toss this shit out and convert to mass damage” in the game.
Sol - 5B anti-air into sidewinder loop, 5S, 5H, hit confirmed into clean hit grand viper. 2D, gunflame FRC into sidewinder. Yea he’s doin fine.
I-no - here we go, a low tier character in AC. Did you eat an instant overhead off her dash? Kiss 40% goodbye if she has any bar.
Venom - 6P, 6H both start great combos. 2S is an ultra safe poke that you can hit confirm Stinger aim into 35-40% plus knockdown.
Chip - If a good chip touches you off a teleport mixup it hurts like hell. Combo into Alpha blade FRC combos for 45%+ Oh btw unlike marvel, his teleports are almost unpunishable.
Anji - If I had a nickle for everytime I tagged someone with a 5S, 5H, 2S, or 2K (+6 on block, use it all day) and confirmed into HS fuujin, into FB rin for retard damage, i could retire.

I can go on and on here, but this isn’t a gear thread, so i’ve probably already overstepped my bounds and pissed off some people. My point is calling yourself a gear player and then bitching about converting safe pokes or clean hits into big damage is insanely hypocritical. Is gear AS bad as marvel about it? No, it’s not. But something else to consider is when you cry foul that any touch is a ToD, it’s actually only doing 33%+ to your total health. You still have 2 more characters to go. I say 33%+ because there is the implied penalty that goes with losing a part of your overall offense and defensive abilities when you no longer have that character for assists, DHC’s etc.

And since I know it will come up “But Klaige, guilty gear has bursts, you get one get of jail free card”. Ok, fair point, except that at high level players start altering their combos to be burst safe, giving up a little damaget but forcing you to not be able to break the offensive stride. On top of it, many of the best offenses in Gear have a plethora of Burst Baits that will not only force you to lose your resource, but actually reset you into MORE damage. Can you occasionally escape massive damage by bursting? Absolutely, but in doing so you sacrifice a lot of great tools like Reversal Gold Burst, and Bursting to escape nasty mixups/unblockables in key situations.

So there you go. Again, I have no problem with someone trying to argue that easy hits into massive damage can make Marvel boring to someone, what I have a problem with is using Guilty Gear as the example to fuel that argument, because it’s flat out piss poor reasoning.

Also Reddies I am flattered that you made an account and your very first post on SRK to come on and call me out on not knowing jack shit about how hit confirms into damage in guilty gear work. Truly… I’m honored.

[Coth_X]

I enjoyed the gear post, even though I only half understood it.

-trolls suck-

[AmishOpiate]

A few thoughts:

I could see someone getting frustrated with the damage in UMvC3 if they were new to the game and picked a character who either needs some time to get going (like Dr. Strange) or has very low health (like Strider or Vergil). That said, I don’t feel like it is a major problem, and I like that Marvel has a feel different from the more defensive matches in Street Fighter IV. Marvel 3 has been out long enough for players to accept it on its own terms; it is a high damage game, and you are either ok with it, or you are not.

Sounds to me that you’re looking at this from a spectator’s POV. When I play the game I find I need to constantly stay on my toes BECAUSE I die so easily. It’s stressful, but it’s the good kind of stress, knowing things go either way if you’re not playing your best.

I think the opposite is true; Marvel is popular as a spectator game because of the high damage and breakneck momentum shifts, not in spite of them.

[Mr.X]

Just leaving these here

[KingofSarus]

Decrease the damage, and suddently you have a FEW characters that can TOD, and a bunch of characters that can barely do anything, even with 3 meters and xfactor.
I mean honestly, chars like chunli barely get any damage as is, do we really want to make her have to go for 5-6 resets to kill a character? Would that make her more fun?

No.
I like “3S” or “SFZ2” Chun in my fighters.

In all seriousness, Capcom. Just nerf hit stun deterioration please?

This is some [SH > BK > h.TK > FADC > U1] bullshit…
*It all won’t connect as much as you thought it would

[Kei]

You don’t seem to know the definition of the word “random.” A mistake is not random, unless it is a mistake in the worst flip-a-coin cross-up or mix-up situations. Even then, mistakes were probably made in getting into those situations in the first place.

I do feel that the word ‘random’ is used ENTIRELY too much in places it does not beling. I personally think that umvc3 is head and shoulders above the original (which I loved despite it’s flaws). Sure the damage is still pretty high, but the damage doesn’t seem quite as ‘easy’ (perhaps a bad use of the word) to get this time around.

You needed mixups in the first game, but I feel in this one they are significantly more important if not for the meter building changes alone.

If you do really dislike the high damage I say just find some like-minded people and lower the damage setting while you fight.

Kei

(lots of other words like ‘broken’ ‘overpowered’ ‘godlike’ and ‘cheap’ get used entirely too much too)

[grandabx]

To sit there and say that every hit confirmed jab in MvC3 is an atuo ToD is pretty ridiculous hyperbole wouldn’t you say? Even a character like Wesker who many people consider to be some of the easiest and straight forward damage in the game will need a ton of meter + assists for DHC/Level 3 to auto kill a character off. I’m not disputing that Marvel has absolutely massive damage output off of single clean hits, what I am calling out is this bullshit argument that Guilty Gear is the polar opposite of that style. Now before I go any further and start showing you similarities, make no mistake: I consider Gear to be the greatest series of fighting games ever made. I would much rather play Gear a 100 times over than play MvC3, but I’m not gonna sit here and listen to some jackass claim he’s a guilty gear player and then bitch about converting a single hit into a very high damage combo.

Marvel and Gear have a lot of similarities in damage conversion, if you play at high level and recognize your hit confirms AND have resources to spend, you will convert extremely high damage combos. In Marvel those resources being Assists, Meter, and X-factor. In Gear the resource being meter for RC/FRC. Just to emphasize my point, i’ll start listing off some situations gear characters have involving safe easy tactics that can be converted into high damage combos with ease.

Eddie - Safe pokes into drill perssure, the second he knocks you down it’s probably worse than 50%, good ones will make that end the round.
Testament - Forward EXE beast is +9 on block, if it hits you, it’s 45%+ into a poisoned knockdown and a nasty okizeme setup If he throws you 35%+ and the same situation
Slayer - Lol, pick a button, did it hit you? You’re eating half bar.
Jam - Mini slayer, also if you eat FB puffball you’re eating 60%
Potemp - Got touched by slide head and he has 25% bar? 35% and knocked down into a nasty 50/50.
Baiken - Any number of safe air and ground pokes (J.S, 5S, 2D, J.H) leads into instant corner loop for 35-40% plus knockdown and more pressure
Robo - Robo Dash, Pony Dash, J.S, J.H all offer up easy to use moves that will convert into 40% or more with 25% meter.
ABA - Once she’s in Moroha mode, uh yea, throw what you want, if you touch them it’s well over 50% and even worse if you have bar.
May - I can’t believe you even chose this as an example. She has some of the best “toss this shit out and convert to mass damage” in the game.
Sol - 5B anti-air into sidewinder loop, 5S, 5H, hit confirmed into clean hit grand viper. 2D, gunflame FRC into sidewinder. Yea he’s doin fine.
I-no - here we go, a low tier character in AC. Did you eat an instant overhead off her dash? Kiss 40% goodbye if she has any bar.
Venom - 6P, 6H both start great combos. 2S is an ultra safe poke that you can hit confirm Stinger aim into 35-40% plus knockdown.
Chip - If a good chip touches you off a teleport mixup it hurts like hell. Combo into Alpha blade FRC combos for 45%+ Oh btw unlike marvel, his teleports are almost unpunishable.
Anji - If I had a nickle for everytime I tagged someone with a 5S, 5H, 2S, or 2K (+6 on block, use it all day) and confirmed into HS fuujin, into FB rin for retard damage, i could retire.

I can go on and on here, but this isn’t a gear thread, so i’ve probably already overstepped my bounds and pissed off some people. My point is calling yourself a gear player and then bitching about converting safe pokes or clean hits into big damage is insanely hypocritical. Is gear AS bad as marvel about it? No, it’s not. But something else to consider is when you cry foul that any touch is a ToD, it’s actually only doing 33%+ to your total health. You still have 2 more characters to go. I say 33%+ because there is the implied penalty that goes with losing a part of your overall offense and defensive abilities when you no longer have that character for assists, DHC’s etc.

And since I know it will come up “But Klaige, guilty gear has bursts, you get one get of jail free card”. Ok, fair point, except that at high level players start altering their combos to be burst safe, giving up a little damaget but forcing you to not be able to break the offensive stride. On top of it, many of the best offenses in Gear have a plethora of Burst Baits that will not only force you to lose your resource, but actually reset you into MORE damage. Can you occasionally escape massive damage by bursting? Absolutely, but in doing so you sacrifice a lot of great tools like Reversal Gold Burst, and Bursting to escape nasty mixups/unblockables in key situations.

So there you go. Again, I have no problem with someone trying to argue that easy hits into massive damage can make Marvel boring to someone, what I have a problem with is using Guilty Gear as the example to fuel that argument, because it’s flat out piss poor reasoning.

Also Reddies I am flattered that you made an account and your very first post on SRK to come on and call me out on not knowing jack shit about how hit confirms into damage in guilty gear work. Truly… I’m honored.

The difference with marvel and gg is the high execution required in gg to do that big damage. how many noobs can FRC those moves needed to continue those combos? How many players can even do the BnBs of characters like bridget, testament, dizzy, venom, slayer or eddie? you can bs around in gg just like marvel, but did you really just compare the execution of them? you might as well say MvC2’s unfly combos are similar.

[SNAAAAKE]

marvel has always been like this. I think damage is good as is. little less wouldnt hurt anyone though.

you want those epic cvs2 matches then you wait for cvs3. at least I am hoping it will be out someday and play something like cvs2…

[Klaige]

The difference with marvel and gg is the high execution required in gg to do that big damage. how many noobs can FRC those moves needed to continue those combos? How many players can even do the BnBs of characters like bridget, testament, dizzy, venom, slayer or eddie? you can bs around in gg just like marvel, but did you really just compare the execution of them? you might as well say MvC2’s unfly combos are similar.

First off the execution thing is pretty moot since you are talking about hit confirming “at high level”. High level players in a game will hit their confirms the vast majority of the time, regardless of execution. Are you seriously going to sit there and act like no one drops the long extended combos that are required to ToD a character in marvel? Now you are just grasping at straws to try and cover up the fact that you call yourself a guilty gear player, yet bitch about high damage hit confirms.

Guilty Gear characters have varying levels of execution just like Marvel characters. You can argue semantics of whether the highest requirements of execution is different from one game to another, but it’s still a weak point to what you are trying to imply. I’m not going to bother going through another list of the various combos in gear that do great damage of an easy hit confirm that aren’t all that more difficult that good MvC3 combos.

Again if you think I’m going to sit and argue that Marvel is a better game for my money you are wasting your time. I’m just annoyed that someone who supposedly calls himself a gear player (what tournies have you been to in the last 8 years exactly?) would take the time to make a thread and try to support an arguement with such a scrubby attitude.

[piskooooo]

High damage ToD off one hit scrubby ass game, HnK for life.

WAIT OH SHIT

[_Insert_Name_Here]

lol you’re trying too hard to play like you don’t know. let me help you: high damage + ease of damage = easy momentum shifts = very thin line between pro and average player.

So fucking up and allowing a momentum shift is random?

The opponent gaining the upper hand is random?

Making mistakes is random?

Please, spell it out for me, because right now what you’re saying is making no sense to me. I’m not trying to be an apologist for everything Marvel 3 stands for, but this just sounds like a load of bullshit.

[throwing_is_cheap]

I can’t stand SF4 for example, but I’m not gonna try and claim it isn’t a good game or anything.

I will!

SF4 isn’t a good game!

[LunaSlave]

In boxing, a match can end with a single move, but it’s highly unlikely. In judo, however, a single successfully scored technique can very easily lead to the end the whole fight. Both are Olympic sports - and both have their justified following. Both sports take a lot of skill. Neither one is ‘random’. They’re just different.

[tataki]

Good Gear players convert a single hit into 50%+ EVERY GODDAMN TIME,

I see you are fighting misinformation and simplification of things by spreading more misinformation and simplifying other things…
Totally did not expect this from someone like you, Klaige.