Lost In Translation: Japanese ST/HDR Tactics Website

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1

Can anyone translate this site?:
http://www8.plala.or.jp/ichirou/hypersf2/

It has neat stuff like explanation on ambiguous cross-up execution:
http://www8.plala.or.jp/ichirou/hypersf2/mekuri.htm

I tried babelfish:
http://66.163.168.225/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=us&lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww8.plala.or.jp%2Fichirou%2Fhypersf2%2Fmekuri.htm#vega_ryu

Some of it works, but I get confused with terms like “chastnut” and “leprosy”.

Someone give the gift of this knowledge to the rest of us. :slight_smile:

2

Oh snap!

Is there a possibility HDR is slowly gaining popularity in Japan?

3

The best part about that one video is how they’re like WTF at Ochio vs Oicho(or whatever it really is), while ST is all about BARlog :rofl:

4

Good ole Barlog!

5

Here’s my try at one of the paragraphs on the index page (I’m really not that good at Japanese so this is only my best guess):

Xbox360?PS3???2 ??? HD???(Xbox360???)???
???X???

I went ahead and bought Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix, on Xbox 360 and PS3 (the Xbox 360 version). It’s too bad the chances of a domestic release look slim, because the remixed mode looks very interesting, and there should be a good proportion of domestic customers. Classic mode also looks useful to do ST research, so it’s worth it to create an overseas account to buy the game, I think.

6

You must translate Sheng Long to understand…

7

… nice.

8

Well done Thelo! :slight_smile:

I wonder how many of the Japan players we see got their intro to the game from this site.

Can you make out what it says on the ambiguous cross-up page?:
http://www8.plala.or.jp/ichirou/hypersf2/mekuri.htm

9

There’s probably a lot I’m not getting right, I’m heavily guessing from context here. Man, this is hard.

???
The tricky cross-up

???(???)???
I studied the properties of cross-up attacks (attacks that fall in your back, which you have to block either straight or reversed) of the first part of the characters.

???
I limited myself from the many individual situations you can encounter.

???
??? ? ???
???
?X??? ? ???
??? ? ???
??? ? ???
?X??? ? ???
??? ? ???
?X?? ? ???
Shortcut

  • Ryu, Ken cross-ups Vega
  • Chun Li’s kick-to-the-back crossup
  • X-Blanka cross-ups Ryu, Ken
  • Zangief cross-ups Ryu, Ken
  • Dhalsim’s roundhouse slide after a grab (?) against Ryu, Ken
  • X-Guile cross-ups Ryu, Ken
  • Deejay cross-ups Ryu, Ken
  • X-Vega cross-ups Ryu, Ken

???
???
Ryu, Ken

  • Cross-up Vega

???
After an anti-air shoryuken, the timing of a roundhouse kick varies.

???=???=???=???=???
The upper pictures show a slightly late timing for the hit, so it becomes a cross-up. In the lower pictures, the getting-up happens earlier (??), so it becomes a straight-guard.

???(X???)?
Deciding on Ryu and Ken’s combos from the jump kick is subtle, but this situation doesn’t change (I think X-Ken is also hard to decide against). ** I’m really not sure about this sentence

( 1 )
???(??)?
???
Ryu opens with a jump (lower part).
In the upper part, after a frame, Ryu also jumps.

( 2 )
???
Vega starts to get up.

( 3 )
???
???(???)?
Immediately after Vega has gotten up.
Vega can fully move (decide the guard).

( 4 )
???(??)?
???(???)?
He turns around in an instant (upper part).
In the lower part, he straight guards (holds ? to guard correctly).

( 5 )
???(???)?
The upper part is a cross-up (hold ? to guard correctly)

???
In short, the result of the above is that depending on Ryu or Ken’s timing against Vega, the guard’s direction changes.

???(???)???
On Vega’s side, will it be a slightly early timing (overlap precisely when he gets up)? If you think so, straight guard. But if it overlaps from the moment you see the getting-up motion, reverse guard.

???
However, the obnoxious speed at which you have to decide means that you will be hit many times after all, I think.

???
By the way, for whichever of the timings described above for the roundhouse kick hit, the follow-up uppercut shoryuken doesn’t change definition. (?)

???
? ??? ?
Here’s an example movie I made.
[Ryu, Ken crosses-up Vega]

10

This is corect, it is after the noogie.
Check out the 48 yoga techniques.
I use this all the time against Ryu + Ken

11

Wait, so if you do a roundhouse slide after a noogie it crosses -up? I assume this is character specific? That would be an awesome mix-up, Roundhouse slide crosses-up, forward slide doesn’t after noogie.

12

Recorded a series between CigarBob and DGV one night on GGPO. CigarBob demonstrates the slide after a Noogie (although its unsuccessful for the most part).

[media=youtube]yVlou5u8hT8[/media]

13

Yes, the timing is pretty exact and can only be blocked or hit on reversal if done properly.

14

Does it just work on Shotos or everyone?

-sorry to derail the thread, actually trying to learn Sim and could use some shenanigans, LOL.

15

as daigo said: “if hd remix is released for arcades, it would be a hit!” or something like that.

16

VERY impressive work Thelo!
Thank you very much for taking the time to work through and translate all that. :slight_smile:

It sets up some very interesting discussion on the topic of ambiguous cross-ups.

Most characters seem to have ambiguous cross-ups based on one of the two following:

  1. timing/position of attack (like Guile)
  2. specific attack used (like Dictator)

On the info you translated (focusing on Ryu’s cross-up), I found the video linked on the page very helpful in following the issue:
http://www8.plala.or.jp/ichirou/hypersf2/movie/ryu_mekuri_vega.zip
(I would put it up on youtube, but it has a very abnormal window ratio
and I don’t think youtube can accomodate it)

Let’s break down the post/topic with specific focus on review of the video.
(I highly suggest you download the video, set it up in a video player in very slow motion, and follow along)

The top set-up follows a Ryu that performs a cross-up.
The bottom set-up follow a Ryu that performs a frontside hit.

The top Ryu initiates his jump a frame later.
During the jump the top Ryu is noticeably a position shifted to the
left relative to the Ryu on the bottom. (as we would expect)

The bottom Dictator starts to get up a frame earlier. (which is weird
and might suggest variable wake-up timing for characters although that
is not consistent with the data here:
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#antobi)
Because the bottom Dictator is getting up later, this actually means the bottom Ryu’s position will have additional time to progress even further to the right in contrast to the top Ryu before the Dictator gets up.

The top Dictator appears to be able to initiate a walk backward
execution, which fits with the Dictator player holding the stick to
the right.

The top Ryu starts their attack move (the non-hitting frames of the
attack) at what looks to be the same time as the Dictator player is
up. (so that it is not a meaty)
The bottom Ryu starts their attack move before the Dictator player is up.

The Ryu on the top seems to execute his attack 2 frames later than the
Ryu on the bottom.

These are the details that define the two set-ups.
If I have missed or misstated any, please correct me or add them on.
We can use these now to speculate and discuss the topic of cross-ups.

17

?D~X???
[D~X Chun-Li]

???
Aiming for the crossup with the kick-to-the-back

?2004.11.07??
2004.11.07 revision
[strikethrough]???
???OK???[/strikethrough]
[strikethrough]The conclusion is simple for these letters.
All characters can always block it straight and low.[/strikethrough]

???(???)?
For the below characters, if you are already at point-blank range when you get up, you need to reverse guard crouching (standing guard also reverses, but here it’s about the crouching guard).

???
??
???
???
???
???
???
D~T???(???)
???
??
Ryu
Ken
Guile
Hawk
Cammy
Fei Long
Bison
D~T Balrog (about in the middle of being knocked down, it’s possible to walk past it and do) (??)
Sagat
Gouki

???(???)?
For these situations, it’s so advantageous that it’s necessary to profit from them, for moves with long knockdowns
???(???)
Thousand Splitting Kicks (easier to do when it’s not the final blow) (?)
???(???)
Sky-rising kicks (hit in the air)
???
Kick-to-the-back hit
???
Anti-air kikouken hit
???(???)???
Also, when it’s tangled mid-air (when it’s a move that doesn’t cause a knockdown), I also think it’s possible.

???
With the exception of the above-mentioned characters, when you get up (and similar) , the interval and timing changes, but without standing, you can have a reliable defense with a straight crouching guard.

???(???)?
Conversely, if you guard standing after all, the danger is that the guard direction changes (character and timing influences it).

18

What section/page/link was this from?

19

This was just after the Ryu / Vega crossup section I translated above, I’m going through the page in straight order.

20

Here’s what I’m getting from this.

This section is about Chun Li’s <stick down/toward> + Roundhouse flip over kick.
Specifically when it is performed early vs. an opponent.
(NOTE: this move is not in HDR)

The following characters must block it as a cross-up and from a crouching position:
Ryu
Ken
Guile
Hawk
Cammy
Fei Long
Boxer
Claw (Chun can walk under Claw early when he is knocked down to initiate this move from the other side of Claw)
Sagat
Akuma

All other characters can block this move with a normal crouching block.
It is dangerous for an opponent to try to block this move with a standing block.

This move is so effective (vs. characters that it crosses up), that Chun Li players should do it vs. any opponent that is knocked down with a move that sets up a long knock-down recovery:

  1. Lightning Kicks (better when it’s not the last kick of the special that knocks down)
  2. Up Kick (that hits as an anti-air)
  3. Kikouken (fireball) that hits as an anti-air
  4. A prior attempt of this move that hits and knocks down
  5. When Chun collides with opponent in mid air but does not cause a knockdown on opponent