Yama’s free jump-ins?
I’ve read in the past that yama has free jump-in setups, but what are they exactly? I imagine they start off a sweep, AC, throw, or ax-kick(dp+k). Do you lead in with meaty jumping LK or jumping MK? Does it matter?
Im pretty sure in C-groove, AC, roll, jump mk/lk is a free jumpin. Im sure after a sweep, wait a second then jump in with mk/lk is another free jumpin. I dont use the axe kick too much so I wouldnt know about it.
Either way Yama has great jump in angles that are hard enough to DP as is.
yo was somebody busting off a gun ?! (at the end of the vid)
Good shit on the vid though…:wgrin:
Someone hit a metal door twice
:lol:
Resurrecting this thread with some additional yama goodness.
I’ve recently switched from C-Groove to N-Groove and I wanted to point out some things I noticed.
C-Yama in general
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fast, saved meter gives yama good defensive tools - lvl2 AA, lvl2 through poke stings, alpha counters, and lvl1 grabs on wakeup. C-Yama heavily relies on saved meter as a tool to cover holes in his defense.
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Yama with lvl2 turns him into “gief with a good roll” ie, roll lvl2 grab. (lvl1 you can jump away from on reaction) Only consistent from the front, because of the input =( I find it hard to setup his roll in C, though it’s possible to roll through a laggy move if you anticipate it (of course)
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C-Yama is not very dynamic (as opposed to N). However, C-Yama’s strong defensive tools make C-Yama vs Blanka a good match and C-Yama vs Cammy a “doable” match.
N-Yama
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N-Yama must be played very differently because he cannot rely on constant meter to cover his holes like C-Yama can. N Yama gets other tools.
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Run increases the range of his pokes immensely - namely s.hk, and c.hk. Additionally, run allows you to close the distance after knockdown so easily. He needs to be at point-blank range to begin mixups with command throw. C-Yama almost never gets that close. Now that I’m N-Groove, I’m landing command throws off mixups way more often =D
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His counter-roll is quick enough to be useful. And of course, tech roll lessens the amount of harrasment he gets if knocked down.
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Without the defensive meter he gains in C, N-Yama vs Blanka becomes a hard match. Blanka can jump-in all day. Yama has to use counter (hcf+k) or lp snakearm - both answers are very committed and you have to hope you guessed right. RC dust kick or RC reflect might get save this matchup if you can execute, though.
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N-Yama vs Cammy is atrocious, IMO. Yama can stick out moves that stop spiral arrows or low-jump hks, but it’s all guesses and cammy’s walkspeed and s.hk put her in the driver’s seat. RC’s might help. Otherwise, I think only broken stock w/lvl3 access is the only decent scenario for yama here.
In a nutshell, I think N-Yama’s have more fun, but C-Yama can fight Blanka and Cammy better. RC’s could be a big factor if utilized consistently.
Theoretically speaking (cause I don’t play K), K-Yama could be the sweet compromise with JD cover defensive holes, and run to abuse his mixup game.
I havent read the whole thing you posted yet but I find it much easier to employ throw mixups with a dash rather than run groove simply because some blocked normals -> dash sets throws up much more easily than with run which I find much harder to do.
So question is what are your basic throw setups.
meaty c.mk > cmd throw
c.jab x2 > cmd throw
j.rh > land > cmd throw
ghetto setup of after a knockdown j.fierce (whiff) > land > cmd throw
meaty c.mk > c.lk > dash > cmd throw
c.jab x 3 > dash > cmd throw
st.mk > cmd throw
i dont remember if this works but
c.jab x2 > st.fierce > MP Knife > (im pretty sure you have to walk forward a bit) cmd throw
You’ll learn when to actually use it through experience. There arent THAT many setups for it but it is a really good move to use. Its very good to work into your game as they’re waking up. instead of trying for a guard crush string or what have you as they’re waking up, hesitate and if they freeze, command throw.
when i make the tutorial itll be easier to see what i mean
That is wholly dependant on the quality of the dash vs run.
k rock, is seriously like almost top tier IMO…hella underrated…
im outi
Roberth
Things I’ve learned since first posting in this thread:
C-Yama is hands down the best Yama (not that it was truly disputed). More alpha counters, more supers (that you can store), and air blocking are more beneficial than anything you get in any other groove.
Yama versus Vega isn’t too bad. Jump forward fierce can stop his annoying jump-in and rc dust helps Yama in the footsies department.
Yama’s placement in the original Ongoing tier thread still holds true to this day. He’s about mid-tier no more, no less.
Yama with run is more favorable. A groove gives him guaranteed damage. I prefer C because N is more vulnerable and it compliments my other chars better. I dont like A either. Vega can jump on yama all day cept max range (d.fierce gets stuffed pretty easily and st.mp is distant dependent)
Disagree but whatever, im sure i wont get anyone on my side but whatever
i like C yama better. air blocking really helps a lot against characters like blanka.
yama has problems with vega but vega getting too jump happy isn’t one of them. his j.hp (the one button dp) stops vega’s jump ins cold. my friend discovered that the 2nd day the game came out.
just dropping in to say that i know alotta people talk about yama and how he can/cant anti air things.
early rolling with yama vs. jumpins is great.
if done right, at the very least, will reset the match against certain characters after they jump at you.
I actually think Yama’s pretty solid, definitely not a character to underestimate such as ye’oldie mid tier or lower.
There’s inherently nothing he has though that drastically alters the opponents gameplan, it’s all based on what groove he’s in.
Him having rage doesn’t make him scarier.
Him having a full A-groove bar doesn’t necessarily make him scarier.
Sitting on lvl 3’s, same deal.
I do think C-Groove is his best though. Lots to be said with sitting on lvl 3’s and airblock.
Wow, actually forgot to submit reply. Was wondering why this didn’t show up. Somebody shoot me please.
Put it like this; the only characters I would maybe put Yama over is Rugal and Vice. Only because I know nothing about Vice and he IMO fights the top-tier (especially Blanka) slightly better than Rugal does.
He can’t combo into stupid damage like C-Sagat, A-Bison, C/N-Chun, A-Sakura, P-Kyo, C-Kim, A-Todo, K-Geese, K-Rock, and C-Ken.
His ground game pales in comparison to Vega’s, Sagat’s, Blanka’s, Cammy’s, Chun’s, Sakura’s and Guile’s.
He has some cute mix-ups but they often times reset the match and are not as dominant as Honda’s, A-Blanka’s, Iori’s, C/A-Rolento’s, A-Todo’s, Kyo’s, C-Ken’s, A-Bison’s and A-Hibiki’s
And he’s not as versatile as Maki, Rolento, and Hibiki.
Yama is not bad he’s just mid-tier. By default more than anything.
P.S. Another small reason I think C-Yama is better is because putting him in low jump grooves affects the speed of his regular jump, which in turn affects some of his anti-airs (jump up/back mk, jump foward hp).
Rugal does horrible against top tier like blanka. Yama at least has a chance with a SOLID anti air super and amazing GC.
Hes a zoning character, not arguing that. Guile cant deal stupid damage either, hes still top right? Same with vega and honda.
Just for the record, he destroys chun, doesnt do BAD against Sagat, guile, or cammy.
just because - havent you noticed people dropped honda? What mixups are you talking about? If he gets them in the corner, its pretty bad for them. He does great GC, has a good command grab and can mix up things like dash xx cmd grab super or dash wait to see if they jump, super. That kinda thing.
Doesnt need to be
Honestly think yama should move up to high mid. He destroys geese and chun. Hands down. They cant do shit against him. He doesnt have a horrible matchup with anyone in the high mid tier either except vega(who is considered top now anyways)
if C-Ken is considered high mid, then Yamazaki needs to move up also.
Yamazaki has a lot of better matchups against the top and high-mid tier than C-Ken.
Another good point I forgot. I can kinda see how Ken can be considered high mid but I mean, Ken has A LOT harder of a time against top tiers and even high mid than yama does. Sure Ken can deal damage off c.short x2 but can he get that close?
Not just that, dash forward d.mk xx lvl 2 is an effective way to land it.
Following any of his anti-airs, he can go for his crossups and voila, close-in.
You just have to note that maximum distance c.MK doesn’t combo into Shoryureppa, not even at lvl 3. It does combo into lvl 3 Kick Super, though (which also sets up the cross-up).