All the MFC strong stuff’s in the Penultimate X-23 thread, as far as I know. This was one of X-23’s stronger combos too: [media=youtube]oUaSfsL-ZWY[/media]
Dunno which does more, Traumatisch’s or mine. Will test it out later(haven’t played UMVC3/turned on my PS3 in months!)
exactly HOW do people find things like this in the lab?
Yeah I hate the scaling off MFC, that’s why I was looking for variants to see some of the more dmging ones that I need to lab. I’ll check back in the PenX23 thread for some!
If I’m reading the damage counter correctly, I think mine does 40k more (~546k before OTG and yours ~508k before OTG), but these are off pretty optimal starting situations. It’s not everyday you’re going to catch your opponent snoozing to land a s.H on them. As a max damage punish it’s a different story of course, but I just prefer hop loops in regards to chances of dropping the combo.
This was all thanks to Easiertorun! He showed us a Crescent Scythe Loop a while bacl, and I just added an MFC starter to it.
IMO, I think starting with an MFC H into a combo is an legit starting point. Mainly because with MFCing, you can toss it out as a poke and confirm into a combo from afar. MFC H twice, if it connects, go into a combo, gets blocked, that’s a high advantage blockstring. The downside to using the move in this way is that lows will go underneath H and H isn’t the fastest poke at 9 frames, but for what it is, I suppose it’s decently fast.
Her s. H is a good poke, but X-23 is not the type of character nor is Marvel the type of game where a s.H with 9f that is not disjointed is a great move to throw out. Your best bet to get a random s.H to connect is via anti-air. If you can make a solid read it’s actually really good for swatting tri-dashers out of the air.
There is a tournament coming up tomorrow. I will look to get some matches recorded and maybe we can analyze some stuff on these boards if you guys would like that.
I’m not trying to come off arrogant, but from what I’ve seen, I think I am the only X-23 that uses more than 10% her toolset. Those 10% being XFC’s, Dirt Nap and beam + feint.
You forgot jump, Talon Attack, down+H times infinity for that 10%, though.
In any case, you are right. Well, almost. From what I’ve seen, Tatsu has a very complete X-23, too. I try to have one but I can’t get her out of training mode. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more great X-23 players out there that I just haven’t had the chance to see.
Despite desperately trying to have my own style, every time I went to practice looking to expand my game, I ended up coming up with stuff that is similar to yours except often less effective, be it in strategy or specific tech. Not the MFC rushdown game, though. I went ahead and just ripped it off.
Out of curiosity, what’s the other 90% in your opinion?
MFC, TA M extensions, command grab setups, ‘beam’ bounces, assisted tick throws, faux ‘dhc glitches’, ‘berserker slash’ crossups, assisted instant overheads, lockdown fuzzy guards, xf loops, dirt nap non-xf relaunches, alpha counters, self relaunches, TK CS H dirtnap setups, air throw resets, dropped combo resets
Curious what else you would add to the list (and while a few of these are situation, I use the above list every time I get a chance.) I do feel like I’m one of the stronger X-23 technicians at the moment, though, and I def. utilize way more than 10% (at the very least.)
I hate my X23, to be frank. More importantly, I think what gets many beginner/intermediate X23 players in trouble are execution errors (especially through tourney nerves) per say. She can’t fill the screen with hitboxes like Morrigan and Zero and with the way the game is shaping out there’s going to be a further increase of X23 drought at high level play (god I hope I’m wrong though).
Simply put, scary X23’s from what I’ve seen have mastered feint resets/wall jump appropriately/frame traps/command grab/a combination of things to that degree. Intermediate players rely on feint mixups+assist for opening people up/talon dive pressure/general knowledge of feint combos/etc. Beginners use basic bnbs, no feints, and use CNS as their only approach of getting in.
I definitely agree. Although I wouldn’t say it’s hard because her stuff is difficult to execute, I think it’s mostly hard because to play X-23 100% effectively, you have to play with nerves of steel. Her offense needs to be very calculated and things have to be set up to even reach the first mixups. And it all has to be done really fast. She really needs to be played at massive speeds to become really scary, but having all that tech constantly at top of mind while still going fast is hard.
would someone be kind enough to give me a rundown of X23’s best solo midscreen bnb, and her best solo BNB off of a qcf+H. I would appreciate it a ton. I know about the basic jump loop, but Ive heard the she has a CS loop as well. Anyways, if anyone could give me the pros and cons, as well as the notation for each of the combos, I would be very appreciative…thank you <3
Ah sorry Merkyl I did not mean to step on your toes. I actually know you put a lot of lab time into her. I was exaggerating to make a point, like I said I didnt mean to sound arrogant.
I actually got to GF with her on point and doing most of the work. I split GF with my opponent so those matches were a bit less serious. Theres probably still some decent match footage and stuff gets uploaden so Ill let you guys know when its up.
Sorry for the late reply, here’s a list of X-23 combos, from basic to advanced: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…-x-23-compliation-thread.153926/#post-6459467
Numbers 4 and 5 in the Advanced and MFC sections are her CS Loops/variations of them.
Lol, I wasn’t being a hardass or anything, I was actually curious what other tools you used on a normal basis. I definitely consider you one of the top X23 tourney players and “it’s not brash if you can back it up”, right? 
Seperate note. I finally caved and put Dorm in my team (so it’s now X-23(AS)/Dorm(Hole)/Strange(Bolts) order switches depending on matchups.) I have a 1 mil combo 2 assists and dhc into stalking flare but I was curious what you felt the best followup from dorm was after stalking flare.
Also cool combo stuff from the lab. Bolts of Balthak is looking really cool now. All the normal stuff with broken blockstrings for mixups, free command grab attempts, beam bounces (s.S+assist, sj.HxxCS LxxTA L spikes into the second beam), etc. It actually works really great as a ground combo extender too (from what it looks like, it’s not affected by hitstun det. 1st hit for sure, 2 hit most likely.) You can do a really long ground chain into s.M(2 hits)+bolts, s.H>full charge NS to get an extra ~100k on your ground portion before launching.
also (haven’t found the best use for this yet, but I think it has some potential.) you can optionally end a ground string with s.M(2 hits)+bolts, s.HS (the S with hit at the same time as the bolts leaving them technically sj. juggled but at low normal jump height.) At this point you can launcher cancel any of her moves and keep going (though it looks like the game only counts X-23s jump state when calculating hitstun so you’ll need to SJ TK to do any long air extensions.) Out of the stuff I messed with, TK MF L lets you add on one more full ground chain before launching again, TK MH H lets you go into additional air loops but you can’t use TA L or S or you’ll get a hard knockdown, TK uncharged NS> jump extension. I didn’t mess much around with it, but I think you can probably get a bit more off the TK MF L by doing MFC or MFC > jump normals.
Also, Wandles (Hulk/X23/IM) just won MBB (Tennessee Tourney) this past weekend! Hopefully there’s some vid I’ll be able to post in a few.
Best follow-up after Stalking Flare? Charge up 1xDestructor, 1xCreator, Liberation, then your follow-ups are as follows:
After Liberation(Meteor Shower), Flame Carpet. Doesn’t hit fully on chars like Taskmaster. If you have an appropriate assist extension, Flame Carpet+assist>Chaotic Flame(you’ll build the meter for it for sure.)
After Liberation(Meteor Shower), st.H against chars where Flame Carpet won’t hit properly and/or you don’t have an assist/meter for Chaotic Flame.) Does more damage than Flame Carpet(but with Flame Carpet, you can use assists with it for extensions.)
After Liberation(Meteor Shower), Purification>Chaotic Flame if you have the meter. Very finnicky to land though IMO.
Do you need to cancel into stalking flare early? When I try to get them with meteor shower they’re too high up. (Hard to tell if I’m just waiting too long to start charging or what.)
It’s more about the neutral game than anything else usually, so it’s hard for me to tell you things about what you need to do or shouldn’t do. Though if you’re getting results then who am I to tell you anything at all lol :P.
The best advice I can give you, is to play the neutral game using her cr.M feint cancelled on the first hit switched up with MFC s.H.
To the general public trying to get better at X-23, let me just say one thing : crossups is not X-23’s gameplan, not even in the slightest. She does not have the tools to reliably set them up out of neutral. She is not Wolverine. X-23’s gameplan is built around frame trapping and punishing push blocking. Then when you’ve trained people to not press buttons (which is after about roughly 800 games usually) you can start setting up crossups or, in my case, unblockables.
Her TA’s are a mobility thing for getting out of trouble/around the screen quicky. They aren’t meant to be used on offense (outside of L) except for specific setups (TA M has some really nice properties for that, but it’s a risky move to throw out).
Also, resets.
p.s. Merkyl if you’re on XBL, I would love to play you sometime to exchange/steal some tech. Even though the connection might not be optimal (read : horrible) maybe we could make it work.
My closing thoughts on the character; I tend to look for “character” in characters. Ie. what is their “theme” so to speak, and does it match with what the character is about personality/canon-wise. In x-23 I find they did a fantastic job . She is a character that, with proper reads/execution, is so fast that you can not reliably get her off you without taking extreme risks. She should be locking you down in the corner so hard that you feel you have to try something desperate and get hit or until she swarms you so much that when she finally does get behind you, you are lagging too far behind to even notice. I built my team with corner lockdown in mind, and she does not disappoint in the slightest. Getting them there is one thing, but once they are, the hit should be all but guaranteed.
p.p.s. Merkyl I actually considered that very same team. I might still try it out, just so I can deal a bit better with certain character combinations like Magneto/Doom, both of whom my current team struggle against.
The minute Rage Trigger finishes(like, as soon as), DHC into Stalking Flare. When you hear Dorm say “RUN”, start charging up Liberation. This doesn’t work on Nemesis though(hitbox is too large and his body soaks up Stalking Flare.)
And IMO, Traumatisch is right about X-23, I believe the X-23 board discussed this a while back as well. Regarding resets, I prefer to kill though, honestly, and I think setting up mix-ups after a knockdown’s more effective than aerial resets, since she can track all versions of tech roll for a mix-up. Only in certain situations would I consider using aerial resets(like using it with Spencer’s Wire to create true resets.)
Some chars, need to be offed ASAP. Though you can gain the meter for Silent Kill through two resets into death, against some chars, IMO, risk/reward-wise it’s not in X-23’s favour(Taskmaster, too much health and X-23 has too little health, Zero and Vergil for obvious reasons, the list goes on.)
And at the risk of getting massively flamed lol, I don’t think X-23’s that far off from Wolverine in terms of strength. I’ll explain why soon(playing Akai Katana Shin atm), but it’s nothing new to be honest
Agreed for the most part.
Only addition I would make regarding resets are that aerial resets are perfectly viable if you can guess the tech direction. It’s just another option she has, you can go for whichever. She has a lot of reset options, both aerial and off KD, for left/right/high/low/air throw/command grab. Some setups even grant all options.
Agreed about offing some characters on the spot. Dirt Nap is also just another option she has. You don’t have to play for it, but if you keep her alive long enough odds are you’re going to get the bar. Also, one clean reset on an average health character will give her lvl3 for char 2.
edit. also the Wolverine/X-23 comparison is kinda skewed. It’s more or less apples and oranges as they’re completely different characters. It’s just the canon-wise similarity that makes people put them next to each other for comparison. Wolverine is a straight forward, brute force, all focus ahead rushdown character with linear (though ridiculously stupid) mixups. X-23 is a lot more slippery and swarms an opponent’s block until they finally get hit. In terms of viability, you’re right. She isn’t THAT far removed from Wolverine. She is just that much more complex of a character.
Couldn’t have put it better myself really. X-23 and Wolverine are apples and oranges, but since they’re both offensive chars, people lump them together and just assume X-23’s a lesser Wolverine.
Neutral-wise, Wolverine has the better normals(both ground and air) and can convert better in the air(especially at SJ height), but X-23 has the freedom to feint cancel all her normals.
Throw-wise, Wolverine has the edge since he can follow-up ground throws.
X-23 has better mobility, Wolverine has better health.
Their damage output is more or less exactly the same, midscreen or in the corner(maybe X-23 has the edge damage output wise?), with or without assists. X-23’s just far more execution-heavy. X-23 builds more meter.
Wolverine has a much easier time setting up high-low and left-right mix-ups. X-23’s much more assist dependent in that regard, but has more emphasis on frame-trapping and strong blockstring pressure. Wolverine’s offence is straight-forward and powerful, X-23’s more subtle in her offence.
Wolverine definitely has more flexible hypers in terms of DHCing and safety(air hyper, charge-up super), X-23 has Silent Kill.
Both make high use of XF.
In terms of viability, if you look at it like this, X-23’s not far off behind. I don’t think people should make out like X-23’s completely inferior compared to Wolverine, but what do I know lol?