Lets End This! the MvC3 X-23 Combo/Strategy Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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Feint cancels on her c.M and s.M are super clutch imo… those moves have awesome startup and hitboxes, lots of active frames too, but are so bad on whiff. Some math from the bible:
s.M startup 5 frames, active 2 frames, then 2 frame gap, then 3 active frames, then 19 frames recovery
c.M startup 6 frames, active 7 frames, 16 frames recovery
for comparisons sake, Wesker c.M is 8/5/14

Feint cancels have 3 frames startup - cancel with S on the 4th frame, 5 frames of recovery so 8 frames total

So you can effectively reduce the recovery of something like c.M from between 18 to 24 frames to 8. That makes c.M in particular one hell of a buff move… unfortunately hit confirming out of feint canceled c.Ms is (imo) very difficult. s.M is somewhat easier, the way I do it anyway… at first I was running around holding S but now I do it with qcb+L+S so I can cancel whenever I want… it takes some getting used to doing the motion fast, buttons held down at the end… if you let go of S during the 3 frame startup of the feints, the cancel won’t happen. If you use the “hold S” method they get way way easier and its pretty easy to find places to hide the S input as X-23.

More math (this is old shit anyway)
stand H into L feint on block - +7
stand H into M feint on block - -4
both of them become substantially safer if they advance guard, making stuff like stand H xx L feint wavedash c.M airtight and stand H x M feint c.L pretty good. only problem is, stand H pushblocked into M feint is not ambiguous unless you are in the corner. midscreen it is hella easy to block. To get the really tasty left/right mixup out of a stand H when you know they are blocking, you need to call a lockdown-type assist (Akuma tatsu, black hole), set your spacing and then do the M feint so that you recover where they are standing as the assist ends. Done right, neither of you will know WTF is going on and you should be able to hit confirm into a good combo or setup a crossup talon dive.

Other news - her command grab is pretty crap. I keep meaning to see if it is super cancelable on whiff, though…

Method of dealing with the Hammer - bait, punish with dp or qcf super. Up close you need the instant invincibility of Rage Trigger (frames 1 to 19) but you have to watch for dumb shit like Dante falling out early because the super doesn’t carry him properly. From further out use Weapon X (frames 6 to 64 invincible)… too bad raw supers can’t start DHC glitches

Also, much thanks to whoever posted that c.H beats Tron assist cleanly. It certainly does, but the timing window is pretty tricky… too early and fire will punish the recovery of your c.H, because apparently only the active frames are short enough to go underneath. Too late and you have to block the fire.

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Yeah man whoever gets it to win matches for them consistently will be the hero of some streams I guess. LOL. People still make a big deal about like the day one H mirage feint hop stuff so I can only imagine what they’ll think of this shit.

Probably right now the immediate best use for the H whiff is it pretty much allows for free throw setups. It allows you to do like VF/Tekken style attack whiff to throw stuff. You’re still going to be definitely plus frames after the first hit of the s.M so the whiff will set up a feint and allow you walk forward and 1 frame throw them. That’s a hell of a mind fuck because they’re sitting there waiting for buttons and then get thrown. Once they get used to the throw set up and try to tech or jump you can press buttons at them the next time or try to air throw them out of their attempt to jump out. The s.H whiff makes the recover from block stun faster and makes a throw really easy to set up since you will be able to grab them before they even realize they left block stun.

Her command grab like most of the other parts of her game is designed to be used with an assitst. The non charged version has like 20 plus frame start up so you’re not going to be able to use it regularly without an assist or without a wake up tech roll setup. The Doom beam guard break trick gives it another new application though. You can’t cancel into anything during the command grab’s start up or active frames. Once the command grab goes into a recovery state (as soon as X23’s back touches the floor) you can cancel into super.

Tron fire assist is negative 6 on block so X23 can punish it with s.L, c.L or s.M and start hitting Tron after the fire. If you ever block Tron fire assist and the opponent isn’t immediately covering it with an attack you can punish it and start taking damage off of it.

Like a trick you could do especially if she already lost some health and you have at least 2 bars is punish with s.L or s.M and then do a small string into XFC and then do crossover combination super. With the right characters you can pretty much one shot Tron out of the match or bring her health down to nearly zero. Level 2 XF especially should get rid of her.

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Speaking of VF, for some reason, feint cancelling X-23’s H reminds me of Jacky’s Iaigeri Kick. Maybe I’m going crazy lol.

Oh yeah, was reading the balance and tiers thread and looking at the discussion about Wesker’s launcher being -1 and it being punishable via XFC, but him being able to use assists like Tron to cover it and so on.

Well, since X-23’s cr.H can go under Tron’s Gustaff Fire like mentioned before, I managed to find a way to punish both Wesker’s launcher and Tron’s assist at the same time using XFC but it’s depends on when Wesker calls the assist. If he calls it at the same time he does the launcher, then wait until Tron appears, XFC, cr.H into combo. If he calls Tron’s assist later after the launcher, do something like cr.LMH to time your cr.H to go under her assist.

Of course, this punishment is iffy as Wesker can just XFC as well.

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Well anything to force an XF out of your opponent also is good. It bring the match closer to a match of solidarity if it was an early XF1 or 2 burn. You can always make it appear like you’re going to continue hitting Tron and bait the XF burn and then just block and lame their XF out.

If the situation you created could force Wesker to burn XF early then that’s always advantageous whether you end up killing Tron or not. It’s something you’ll have to play out and make adjustments for based on what the opponent does but yeah. Your best bet is to have 2 meters during the situation so you can XFC into string then rage trigger and DHC into someone safe or do crossover combination.

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I don’t know if this has been discussed yet, but it seemed pretty neat, so I’ll just chime in on it real quick. I was mucking around with Doom missile assist possibilities and came to the surprising conclusion that, if you time it right, you can use decapitating slice but make it so the missiles keep the opponent in grounded hitstun while you recover from the command grab. On bigger hitbox characters, this means free ground combos/launchers etc.

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I was kinda wondering about that… I was trying to come up with ways of using drones to cover command grab, but the 3rd drone would usually catch the guy before X-23 could launch him and wouldn’t allow for any kind of followup. Missiles would certainly work quite well. Does throw damage & hitstun scaling take effect if you interrupt the throw like that?

Another thing is that if you land a command grab and hold hard tag down, your hard tag will combo from the throw. A buddy of mine told me that Viewtiful Joe can almost always combo from a hard tag, so I kinda want to make a X-23/Joe team just to do super stylish combos out of her grab…

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Hitstun decay and scaling are both still in effect, and I’ve really only been practicing against Sent, so I don’t know if you can land it reliably on anyone else, but It’s a neat trick at any rate.

Also: Has anyone been able to make some lengthy combos out of using her H mirage feint as sort of a jump cancel? I was messing around with that too, and it seems possible, but my execution is awful.

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Good point. I’d rather not have to deal with their level 3 X-Factor anyway haha and I don’t mind fighting without mine, so yeah, the earlier it gets burnt out, the better.

Nochart: if it’s what I’m thinking of, it might be possible, but you’d probably have to make sure they’re standing or they’ve got a large hitbox. I’ll test.

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Yeah a lot of play I’ve been seeing on stream lately is early XF burns to kill off stupid characters like Wolverine. After the Wolverine dive kicks for the 80th time you just guard cancel kill him off. You’ll have to deal with XF3 whoever in the back later but if you end up killing their second character early it’s hard even for level 3 XF character (outside of Phoenix) to bring it all back. Especially if you do a good job burning out their level 3 which people seem to be good at doing lately. If you kill their first character early with level 1 XF, usually out of fear of losing their second character early they will turn their level 2 XF on and try to kill off your first character right off the bat. Which is not terrible because if you can burn out their level 2 after then the fight becomes a normal fight to the finish.

The main reason why Phoenix is retarded (and not just really good) is that she’s the only character where burning your XF early will guarantee you lose the match. Which means unless you have some really good snap back hard to blockable stuff you’re going to always have to burn out 20 seconds of the most ridiculous power in the game.

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I try to avoid facing lvl3 Dormammu whenever I can too. He can kill you easily with no meter combos and his tri jump is actually pretty ridiculous… and he only needs to kill one character to potentially wipe out your whole team on the tag in mixups. and as much as I hate to say it lvl3 Sentinel is still a dick… very slim margin of error vs him. The counters to his things are all obvious but if your timing is even slightly off you are going to get fucked up badly.

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Yeah level 3 Sent is always going to be a factor. Level 3 Sent really shouldn’t be THAT much of a factor but it just goes to show how stupid the level 3 XF system is and that it definitely needs a tone down. You can actually fight Sentinel with some sort of sense normally as he has to be very careful about what he whiffs. When a character like that gets a 30 percent speed boost and a 100 percent damage boost there’s nothing to lose and he’s just going to play like an idiot until he eventually hits you with something.

XF3 should give you a decent chance to come back but it shouldn’t be this “high on PCP throw 5 cops off your back and break down fences” shit. It’s pretty nonsensical that your only strategy against level 3 XF anyone is to runaway for 20 whole seconds. Running away for 10 or even 15 seconds is ok but having to protect your characters from stupid for 20 seconds is just not good for a competitive fighter. There’s literally nothing to do against a level 3 cracked out character except burn them out which is lame for both the players and the people watching when they know exactly what’s going to happen. Which is why people hate Dark Phoenix so much.

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LOL it is pretty discouraging when Sent kills X-23 in 5 hits. Personally I’d love to see X-factor stick around similar to how it is now… cancel almost everything, plus the speed boost (and it seems to me like it reduces hitstun & damage scaling?) but I want the damage boost to go away. Extended X-factor combos are awesome, especially as X-23… god DAMN do I ever love ripping around with lvl2/3 X-23 and doing all kinds of crazy loops, and that really is part of the reason I bumped her from point on my team… but the damage boost is just too retarded.

It makes your mixups way stronger and it makes your moves faster and safer. That on its own is a big enough buff you should be able to come back more easily. The damage boost moves into a scrubbier realm, though. Oh well… we’ll have to wait and see what Capcom does, because in all likelihood it will be completely inexplicable.

On a more on topic note her x-factor combos I use… lvl2 or 3. the big jump loop can get pretty tight depending on how you combo into it but it looks so fuckin cool it is my go-to x-factor combo. Its also a somewhat more efficient use of x-factor time than the relaunch.

c.M s.H s.S sj.M sj.H sj.d+H xx 236L, 236M OTG, s.M… loop
c.L s.M s.H c.M (link) s.H xx 214H, j.M j.H / /\ j.M j.H j.S / /\ j.M j.H j.S / /\ j.M j.H j.S / /\ j.M j.H xx 236L s.S sj.M sj.H sj.d+H xx 236L etc

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^
Thank you very much for both of those X-Factor combos, I’ve been looking for some loops in X-Factor. I know somebody(can’t remember who) mentioned a loop some time ago, but I couldn’t find it.

As for Dark Phoenix, IMO, people don’t know how to use Dark Phoenix on top of the fact that without X-Factor, she’s nowhere near as frightening haha. People know how to use regular Phoenix(to a degree), people know how to roll their faces on the controller when they have Dark Phoenix XF.Lv.3, but it seems to me like nobody knows how to use regular Dark Phoenix. And if there are players out there that do, I haven’t seen them yet.

When their Dark Phoenix runs out of X-Factor, I just see players just kinda…freeze up offensively lol. They don’t even put up Healing Field half the time, they just stand back and fire shots. And when they get a hit as regular Dark Phoenix, they just do a really basic combo into Hyper like it’s regular Phoenix. They don’t really seem to be aware that with advanced combos, Dark Phoenix can deal 1.mil damage with one bar, and the combo gives her ridiculous meter gain as well.

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I checked into more ways to punish the Hammer… even the ones I found before just aren’t reliable. Depending on his height it becomes more or less unpunishable. Perfectly done there is literally nothing X-23 can do about it except super, DHC to a counter super.

in case you feel like really styling on somebody in x-factor
c.L s.M s.H xx 214H, j.M xx 236L, s.M s.H xx 214H, j.H xx 236L, s.M s.H xx 214H, j.M j.H / /\ j.M j.H j.S xx 236L, s.H s.S sj.M sj.H sj.d+H xx 236L, 236M OTG s.M xx 623H

works in lvl2 and 3 and is very quickly fatal to your opponent in both.

in lvl1 just do the basic loop combo… you will have to burn meter or use assists to do much damage, plus you will have to use the entire duration and get no super speed mixup on the next char tagging in. X-23 doesn’t use lvl1 very well at all.

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You can self-otg with QCF+M in XFC, just keep relaunching into talon dive til they are dead.

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For those who don’t know, if you hit an opponent with talon dive M at about jump distance from the ground, you can follow it up with an air S into a ground string. I just saw a couple matches in the video thread where someone hit the opponent with talon dive M then just ended it with a down H or nothing.

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If you’re fighting Dante early in the fight guard cancel XF should blow him up for abuse of it.

EDIT: Eh…well tested it in training mode and the guard cancel only works on high in the air hammers. If he it does it low to the ground or TK’s it he’s safe. Which means I can safely use it against guard cancel happy Wolvies. Man…I’m glad I’m using Dante. That guy is retarded. LOL.

Yeah that’s a regular tool you can apply. It’s probably something I should figure to use more myself. The only thing you have to worry about is the recovery frames being able to be air thrown if you dont hit them.

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OK guys, managed to find an X-Factor Level 1 combo that builds 2 meters and does 1,276,900 damage(kills everyone), no meter and is hitconfirmable. But you need a multi hitting assist that keeps them in place in order to extend beyond the air series(I used Dante’s Jam Session.)

(ugh, where’d the smilies go?)

LMH>X-Factor Cancel, J.M, J.M, J.H, J.S(land)x2, J.M, J.H (air)D+H>qcf+L(land and wait until opponent is close to the ground), MHS(super jump) J.M, J.M, J.H, (air)D+H>qcf+L(land), call assist, Ankle Slice(assist hits), S(super jump) J.H, (air)D+H>Hard Crescent Scythe.

At the start of the match, there’s your 3 bars lol. However, it depends on how much health the opponent has. 850K and above will net you 2 bars straight away. But characters below that amount will give you a 1.75 bar meter gain.

If you’re up against a Phoenix team, all you have to do is land a good Mirage Loop on the next character after the first is dead and cut it short into a snap back on the next character, and Phoenix is dead, guaranteed. The second loop you land will bring you up to 4 bars, so after the snap back, you still have your level 3. Phoenix comes in…dead. Nothing she can do, especially if you do Jam Session almost immediately, which gives you enough time to avoid her air hyper and punish the recovery if she wants to protect herself and locks her down long enough for you to take her out. But it’s a massive drain of your X-Factor and meter.

Can’t find anything worthy off an air throw just yet.

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nice combo

DHC Trick :slight_smile:

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My bad lol, I meant I can’t find anything worthy from X-Factor that does at least 1.mil and builds up 2 bars.

But honestly, yeah, apart from maybe Phoenix teams, you probably shouldn’t blow your X-Factor straight away so just DHC gltich 'em. She’s not Wolverine anyway.