I’ve only played on the Astro layout once when I was playing TvC in Japan. Otherwise I was mostly playing on Vewlix’s. Looking at the Astro P1 layout, it definitely looks ergonomic but honestly I don’t remember as I’ve become accustomed to the Vewlix layout which was like playing on silk after growing up with the American standard 6. Honestly I think it comes down to player preference. My physical self would most likely prefer the Astro P1 but my mental self is accustomed to the Vewlix layout, so mind over body. Like someone earlier in this thread said, the Vewlix has become the most common denominator and the Astro layout is harder to come by in great commercial number in comparison so you work with what’s available in most cases.
One thing I still don’t understand is why there are two different layouts (Astro P1 & P2) on one Sega cab. I’m sure someone at Sega has a good reason for it.
EDIT: I realize now why the Vewlix is preferable for me, after looking at my hand placement I realize that I rest my right arm at a 45 degree angle; so my fingers line up perfectly without having to alter my wrist position. Guess it’s a little more body over mind in my case. This is probably why I prefer playing on the 2P side of machines so my elbow doesn’t ram into anyone/thing.
I do understand the ergnomics and comfort feel of using layouts like the Astros, Vewlix, etc.
I personally use a somewhat custom-layout; I take the Vewlix, but I shift the lower row 7mm to the right so that the rightmost 6 buttons are squared off. I use the straight-6 buttons on the right, because the first knuckle of my pinky (ie, the one closest to the palm) presses Roundhouse.
This is generally why I play less efficiently on the ergonomic layouts (Astro, Vewlix, etc) because the Roundhouse button is too far to the left for my knuckle to reach.
Though mind you, I suppose the Hori layout (squared off Strong/Fierce/Forward/Roundhouse, with a lower Jab/Short) would probably work well for me too.
I always felt more comfortable sitting down at P2 on an Astro. I didn’t even realize they were different at first. It just felt more natural for me. Then at some point I noticed the slightly different layout. When I do mp + mk assist/focus, I always use my middle finger (no thumb). I’m not a big fan of Vewlix.
None of the popular layouts seem very ergonomic to me. The Astro 1P might be the worst. I’ve always had this hypothesis that that 1P layout was designed to be playable when the elbow is forced in because of the person on the 2P side. Then when single-player panels were designed, the 1P layout was used instead of the “correct” 2P layout.
I haven’t been able to try it, but this Egret 3 layout seems like it might be on the right track, ergonomically.
Most comfortable layout I ever used was the saulabi layout (The “human based design” if you even seen the commercial).
The buttons are 28mm korean on a slant that almost perfectly matches the arc which the hand reaches the buttons (similar to the Hori Tekken slant, but the rows are aligned differently). The smaller buttons mean they are place closer together making the buttons easier for the fingers to reach; allowing the hand to rest in a comfortable position with little need for major movement.
I am not sure if there is an official name for this layout. I like to call it the human based design layout. Here is a picture of my modded saulabi wooden stick from etokki.com.
I prefer Astro over Viewlix. My ring finger naturally sits on the 3rd button on row 1. I don’t like the 1st button on row 2 though; seems too far away. Next replacement will for my stick will be a Player 2 layout.
That makes so much sense… I have a 1P stick and it always feels like I have to tweak my elbow inward to my body to make it make sense without having to elevate my hand. My new 2p stick feels SOOOO much more comfortable.
y’all are weird. I always rest my fingers on the top row of a viewlix layout then I activate the bottom row with my middle knuckles. I thought everyone did this.
Yup, all about personal preference. On that note I personally find the layout than Qanba uses to be pretty comfortable which I’m told is referred to as a condensed Viewlix layout.
Viewlix and the like seems a little more ergonomic for those who keep their wrist at and angle to the stick and doesn’t use their thumb (index on Short, middle on Jab, ring on Strong).
Astro City and the like seems a little more ergonomic for those who keep their wrist perpendicular to the stick and uses their thumb (thumb on Short, index on Jab, middle on Strong, ring on Fierce).
Seimitsu of course! =) When I rest my fingers down naturally in front of me on a table, it literally draws the 2p Seimitsu Astro City layout. My middle and ring fingers are straight across at an even level and my thumb and index finger are straight up and down and the my thumb/index form a 90 degree angle with my middle/ring with a 45 degree angle between them. (hard to explain in words)
It’s like the 2p Seimitsu Astro city panel was made for my hand specifically. Most of the games I play (MvC3, SCV, KOFXIII, BBCS) use four primary buttons, so this layout allows me to keep a button on each attack at all times, and for 6 button games, I can use my index/ring/middle fingers and move between rows without having to adjust horizontally.
Astro City 1p requires perpendicular wrist placement, 2p allows you to comfortably angle your wrist. Like a poster mentioned above, most likely this was done to accommodate the 1p person having to keep their elbow tucked closer to their body.
the top row of the viewlix is perfect. they messed up when they did the bottom row. you can clone the top row of the viewlix and move it over to the right so it looks more like the saulabi (shown on the right). I used a 22.5 degree angle for my own layout. the rest is a straight line. if you look at the left hand in this picture, its very much like the original viewlix.
I think Sega 2nd player is best if you use your thumb, and Vewlix is best if you don’t. I have a slight preference for Sega 2nd player because of ST Guile-specific combos that incorporate the thumb.
But for games that involve LP+LK or MP+MK, it depends on if you prefer to use index+thumb or middle+thumb. But then character-specific kara throws makes things even more complicated. I’d be willing to bet that ergonomics is more character-specific than personal preference.
I disagree a little bit. I think it’s exactly the other way. The bottom line of buttons, shifted to the left (like in the viewlix) makes it imo easyier to use the thumb.
Layouts like Sega P2, where the buttons are lying directly among each other in a line (from row to row, meaning lp + lk or mp + mk without a shift) are “better” to be played without the thumb. There the wrist doesnt need to bend and the hand lies with the forearm in a straight line.
I play without my thumb and I press lp + lk with my index finger only, meaning lp with the tip and lk with the the “middle segment” of the finger (Opposite from the one posting above, I use my index tip for lk and lp both, only the middle segment when pressing both) . It’s a fluid motion, it’s very easy to plink lk~lp with it (for blanka cr.lk combos or bisons cr.lk stuff).
When I play like this, and I would use a vewlix layout, I have to bend my hand a lot to hit lp + lk with the index finger alone.
Still never saw a japanese use his thumb:
