Who else suffers the I can’t build vgauge with vskill reliably?
Most characters?
I mean, Birdie is the only true “reliable” v-skill to build meter. Most characters will be lucky to get a tick or two from usage at all.
Apparently CC builds you 50% of a Vgauge slot. So st.lk > cr.HP frame trap and st.HK as a footsie tool (which goes into MP.Boltcharge), will help you built meter.
I’ve been using meaty st. HK on people’s wakeup a lot, or whiffing it on knockdown. Safe on block and nice damage on CC.
Also to whoever posted that CC combo of st. hp xx mp fireball > st. hp xx anything, thank you. That shit is stupid damaging whether for raw damage or a reset.
Anyone knows the frame data on st.lk and st.hp? Was using that as a frame trap and it worked alot during the last few hours of the beta where I started implementing it in my game.
st.LK is +3 and s.HP is 8f, so this series has a 5 frame gap with Fierce Button priority. Lights and throws(?) will beat this at the closest of ranges.
Use cr.HP. More range, 1 less frame, sort of confirmable.
To add to that it has 5lk has 4 frame start is + 4 on hit
Cool. Will cr.hp after st.lk catch people who jump? Since I like to establish st.lk to command grab?
It should because the active hit box starts out high and gets lower. IMO 5MP is must better to catch jumping opponents and if you miss you catch them with HP elbow
Here is the link on the 1st active frame
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1XKeXE5yK6WdTN2VDBXc1l5T2M/view?usp=sharing
Nope. jump start up is 3 frames I think, in this game? Or am I mixing it up with Guilty Gear?
Anyway, I don’t think it will kill a neutral jump, but you might have time to react with qcf+HP after the whiff
Sorry but that setup isn’t working like, at all.
No way you’ll get a CC off that setup if your opponent does a cLP.
Sorry, I think you only theorized about it, and never actually tested it.
Thus no one being afraid of that option and just pushing cLP if they notice a dash (forward or backwards, doesnt matter, especially when you have +20frames to react to dash forward options)
This is where you are mixing up theory and practice
You’re right that dash back, sweep isn’t gonna cc somebody on the jab, but dashing back and looking for a whiff punish is still legit
people can hit a jab if they see a dash but to do that they need to look for the dash which opens them up to just getting command grabbed in the first place. All fighting game characters individual tools are bad, they become good by putting them in context of the other options. Maybe you’re the chosen one and you can punish Laura for this every time (when you’re not too busy jumping over every hadoken on reaction), but assuming you aren’t, I would really recommend opening your mind to some techniques that aren’t 100% based on counting frames and instead get a sense for what people are actually gonna react to.
Except, it’s supposed to be a setup to CC people that mash jab.
Not a “fish and see what happens, in case I need to whiff punish a long ass normal” thing.
Never said anything about not being able to whiff punish shit from a command backdash during pressure. It’s OBVIOUS you can whiff punish things that way.
But we weren’t talking about that AT ALL.
Thanks for your input though.** Irrelevant** but thanks anyway.
It’s pretty relevant especially if you consider the last part of your post about people hitting jab when they see a dash, because you’re right about that. People will, but they can’t literally be mashing, in that case you wanna just stick to your standard frame traps. Instead, they’ll hit jab or another button a little bit after the dash happens especially to check an approach. This is where the risk/reward is decent for going for a sweep (though @caliagent#3 I would go for a s.HK 
)
It’s like he said, it is the same thing as doing something like balrog c.lp c.lp, walk back a bit, sweep. If they literally mash out a jab, they will likely not get punished. However, this tactic is still heavily used in tournament play. Why? Because based on a culmination of factors including rog’s other options and people’s typical reaction time, this sequence often works (and scores counter hit, not as important in sf4 though) and is pretty safe to try. It is a, in the purest sense of the word (not the sf4 frame-counting sense), a setup. For people who are gonna press buttons. I can pretty much promise you that it will be used for years by good Laura players. It might not hit someone who literally mashes out a jab, but it is nonetheless a setup you will get a lot of mileage from against certain types of players. For other types of players, you have other options.
You can promise whatever you want.
My point was it would NEVER be a reliable CC setup for people mashing jabs.
And it never will.
Someone pushing jab, whether you dash forward or backwards, will either be hitting you or just whiff jab and you can’t punish.
Of course using a frametrap will prevent them from doing so, but sMK doesn’t frametrap anything, and still you see people (even Sabre) using sMK > dash.
Meaning that you can jab after his sMK. You will either jab his dashin, or whiff jab if he backdashes. You can try and sweep, you will never punish that.
Would be much better with a sMP, since you can frametrap afterwards, and install some mindgame then. And maybe mix some dash in there. Because you can frametrap here.
Thus my whole point : people are abusing gimmicks with Laura, and very soon, people will adapt to that shit.
This is where human reactions are gonna mean a lot. You are correct in theory. Jab after s.mk is gonna beat everything Laura has. But if you look too hard for that move, you’re just gonna get command thrown. So later on you can get s.mk into stuff, whether it’s a dash, command grab, other s.MP, etc. Even though s.MK is at frame disadvantage. Same reason you sometimes see good Guile players managing to pressure after negative command normals etc.
As for the dash back into s.HK/c.HK setup, it might not make sense numbers-wise, but just like it worked for tons of other characters in tons of older games, it’ll work here. Up to you if you don’t feel like using it 
I agree, dash off s.MP seems like the best bet since its where she has most of her options. It’s also safe (but minus) but i think thats less important because if you are risking the dash you might as well commit to the offensive; little point in doing the dash and letting the opponent take the momentum. Better to not just use the dash.
After s.MP she can pretty much frame trap with anything to stop the opponent from pressing reversal jab. After that it gets a bit trickier but i still think she has options. This requires a bit more testing, but doing a c.MP or c.MK into MP fireball should allow you to get past reversal jab from further out. It might not hit the opponent but if the opponent blocks then you are immediately back in again, which is the whole reason for doing the dash in the first place. Normals canceled into fireball can be beating by far, low hitting moves, like many c.MK’s or sweeps, but that opens the possibility to dash back in if they want to try hit the fireball cancel or whiff punishing with dash back canceled into qcf+P (maybe, still need to test this one as well).
Thats the sort of approach im taking with laura at the moment. But it relies on the opponent having to forcefully commit to beating one option or another. If it can be easily reacted to or option selected, then it’s all for naught and Laura will need another approach.
This is where I disagree.
You see sMK on guard, you can push cLP for free : 1) can’t cancel into specials 2) dash-in is unsafe 3) dash-out can’t punish your jab
And sMK on guard being -1, if you try to command throw, you’re jabbed anyway.
So, sure, people can derp and wait for winter to come again, but focusing your gameplan on hoping people will choose the worst option every time, is not what I’d call “great lab work”.
You are indeed right about “human making errors, you can make work things that usually don’t work”, but that’s not what we talk about here.
We talk about guaranteed setups and strategies that work without counting on people making mistakes.
Caliagent told us he used his “setup” during last beta and it worked when people mashed jab to score a CC.
My point is : “Nope. It’s not happening. Not in SFV beta 3-4”.
I agree about movement based character will create openings, sometimes, when there aren’t any “in theory” (El Fuerte is a good example), but that’s not the discussion we’re having here.
Game is young, better first work on actual real setups THEN work on “stylish fake setups” (aka gimmicks).
It’s like you’d tell me about a fake frametrap and add “ok it’s not working, but sometimes people will be late and it will work anyway”.
It may have its use, but is it our priority over finding “working stuff” ?
- Caliagent’s setup doesn’t work.
- sMK > dash (in or out) is a gimmick and can be punished every time, even though it may go unpunished “sometimes”.
That’s all there is to it.
I agree though that Laura will be a momentum character, that will be able to apply pressure for free when people become afraid of your guaranteed setups.
Ya this is the right approach. I don’t dash off s.mp though, I’m not convinced that gets you anything. Rather just walk. Less risk and if s.MP CHs you can confirm. I do dash off it if I’m in the corner and I used it to AA 
Dash off normals is especially important for getting in on sim, you can whiff punish all his far booked with c MP and dash in on him pretty well.