Latveria shall ever be Latveria- Dr Doom thread 2.0

[DevilJin_01]

Alright I was in the danger room again theorizing some shit with Doom and I found out some new stuff.

OS dash/throw and OS air dash/air throw

There was a video released a while back where Alioune was showing off that you could option select dash/throw or air dash/throw with Doom. I wasn’t really sure exactly how to do it till one of my friends brought it up. Basically all you have to do is press f+H~H or b+H~M. That basically means you plink or tap really fast H then M right after. Luckily the window to option select is large so if u dont have fast hands u dont even have to do it fast. You can just press forward plus H then tap M at a decent pace though not necessarily SFIV plink fast. This will cause the game to stop the animation of your H attack and cancel it into a ground dash or air dash. Which then the game option selects this into a throw if you are close enough to throw or lets you continue to air dash and press a normal.

Like if you’re on the ground you can do this option select when you’re within throw range by pressing f or b+H then M. Fast but with just enough delay so the game knows you’re trying to switch options. This works where if you’re near somebody and they try to jump or backdash away and you do the forward dash/throw OS you’ll stay moving in near them instead of whiffing a f+H hard kick. Which then of course since your dashing you can cancel into jump then press M+H when you’re at correct air dash height (not very high but not too low) to cancel the dash into a square jump then immediately press M so you do a square jump M and bring yourself back to the ground.

This option select becomes powerful in the corner if they’re stand or crouch blocking as long as they dont tech the throw. Basically what happens is if they just sit there and block they get forward thrown to free corner juggle. If they try to jump away you can still cancel the dash to a jump then then press M+H then M to air dash/square dash forward with M to bring yourself back to the ground and set up a possible air throw situation or anti air them with air M again or hard kick to set up launcher.

Unfortunately this option select doesn’t work with back throw because b+H is Doom’s hidden missles and hidden missiles are a strange command normal that aren’t cancellable on hit, block or whiff. Therefore no option select can be created of back throw. You’re going to get missles with or without OS so might as well just back throw as normal.

***The air dash/throw or back air dash/throw OS is a bit different to use but similar. ***

Generally for a forward throw what you do mid screen is just jump forward then immediately press f+H then quickly hit M but make sure there’s enough delay so the game knows you’re trying to option select and wont throw out a hard attack. If you get this to work correctly Doom will basically just air dash forward like normal but if you’re near the opponent and you expect them to jump away this will forward throw them towards the corner if they jump and air dash forward towards them if they backdash or stay on the ground. If you try to air throw them and they’re already too high up in the air you’ll still be able to air dash forward then immediately press M to bring yourself back to the ground.

A solid way to test your ideal range for this is go up right next to the opponent then c.M them on hit. You’ll notice on hit they will move back a bit but not too far. This range is just a tap forward or 2 too far away for the OS to work. Just walk one or 2 pixels more forward. This is your ideal range to set this OS up. If the person tries to jump and you do the OS they will get forward air grabbed. If they stay on the ground you can immediately press M during the square jump/air dash and you’re in perfect range for ambiguous cross up/non cross up overhead square jump/air dash M against a lot of characters. Just remember to pretty much press on M the instant u start air dashing.

You can also press uf+H~M to do air dash upward throw OS. This works well if someone is coming down from a forward or neutral jump close to you. You’ll get a slight bit of extra height before air throwing them and this is powerful in the corner. Once you get people in the corner you can mix up between jump forward H~M OS and uf+H~M OS. If you think they will probably stay blocking (usually they’ll be crouch blocking) do jump forward+H~M OS. If they did jump you’ll OS forward throw them to set up free corner juggle and if they stay on the ground you get free square dash M. You can also whiff the square dash M by pressing H instead incase they try to advance guard your M. There’s also techniques to use if they do advance guard your M to stay in that some people brought up earlier and I’ll go into further another time when I’ve experimented more.

If you already see them jump up or back away from you and catch it early enough you can OS uf+H~M to catch up with them quickly and OS air dash up forward throw. If they do anything but immediately press an attack you’ll get them up and otherwise you’ll air dash forward up towards them and can press M to try to counter hit them out of something on the way up. If you miss them you can just wait to come back down when they come down depending on if they jumped or super jumped and try again.

You can even do a back throw OS which is a bit less useful but works if it lands. Basically do a similar technique trying to catch them jumping and press b+H~M after jumping backwards. If they are close enough for air throw you’ll back air throw for free OTG combo anywhere. If they are too far away to air throw instead of getting lame ass heavy gun coming out you’ll air dash backward.

The only issue with these OS tactics especially the air dash backward one is that you can’t block when you’re air dashing. Which means if the OS doesn’t grant u a throw try to press M so you can get back to the ground as quickly as possible. If you just let the back or forward air dash ride you can be in big trouble if they have a quick air super or special.

Naked L plasma beam hit confirm to supers

The strategy guide tells you its best to use H beam for its strong durability and active frames making it so the person can’t jump towards you and hit you unless they clear a certain distance first before jumping. L beam is still good though because even the L beam will beat out other beams in priority like Magneto’s disruptahs and is still faster than any of Iron Man’s unibeams i believe. Once you get within about sweep range or slightly outside and have 3 meters L plasma beam becomes powerful. I looked at the combo that duck strong did where you can combo H plasma beam into level 3. I tried doing this with L plasma beam and found interesting results. Basically as long as u hit the person with L plasma beam and they are going to fall within the max range of the super u can just hit confirm into level 3 super and this will combo for basically 500,000 damage.

Which means when you get within closer ranges you can employ a strategy of anti advance guard rushdown to force people toward the corner or employ a strategy of catching them trying to move away or counter attack with L plasma beam. If it hits anywhere a bit outside of sweep range the 5 hits from the beam are basically a hit comfirm to land on the electric spark that travels across the ground when u activate level 3. If you land L plasma beam then XFC into level 3 with level 3 XF that’s basically a 900,000 damage L plasma beam. :looney:

You can also use this in anti air situations because of the solid hit box. If someone is trying to jump in at you and its not directly on top of your head you can just launch L plasma beam. If it anti airs them make activate level 3 at a time so they will land on the spark and boom 500k+ damage anti air. This works from a pretty solid range. If they are pretty close to you but you still see an opportunity to anti air with L plasma beam you can go into sphere flame afterwards to save meter and do still solid damage. The sphere flame setup also works with H molecular shield.

I found it really strange that something as simple and good as L plasma beam to level 3 wasn’t listed in the strategy guide but i guess they wanted us to figure out that the electric spark was a sneak juggle setup for it.

[triplexraider]

Alright I was in the danger room again theorizing some shit with Doom and I found out some new stuff.

OS dash/throw and OS air dash/air throw

There was a video released a while back where Alioune was showing off that you could option select dash/throw or air dash/throw with Doom. I wasn’t really sure exactly how to do it till one of my friends brought it up. Basically all you have to do is press f+H~H or b+H~M. That basically means you plink or tap really fast H then M right after. Luckily the window to option select is large so if u dont have fast hands u dont even have to do it fast. You can just press forward plus H then tap M at a decent pace though not necessarily SFIV plink fast. This will cause the game to stop the animation of your H attack and cancel it into a ground dash or air dash. Which then the game option selects this into a throw if you are close enough to throw or lets you continue to air dash and press a normal.

Like if you’re on the ground you can do this option select when you’re within throw range by pressing f or b+H then M. Fast but with just enough delay so the game knows you’re trying to switch options. This works where if you’re near somebody and they try to jump or backdash away and you do the forward dash/throw OS you’ll stay moving in near them instead of whiffing a f+H hard kick. Which then of course since your dashing you can cancel into jump then press M+H when you’re at correct air dash height (not very high but not too low) to cancel the dash into a square jump then immediately press M so you do a square jump M and bring yourself back to the ground.

This option select becomes powerful in the corner if they’re stand or crouch blocking as long as they dont tech the throw. Basically what happens is if they just sit there and block they get forward thrown to free corner juggle. If they try to jump away you can still cancel the dash to a jump then then press M+H then M to air dash/square dash forward with M to bring yourself back to the ground and set up a possible air throw situation or anti air them with air M again or hard kick to set up launcher.

Unfortunately this option select doesn’t work with back throw because b+H is Doom’s hidden missles and hidden missiles are a strange command normal that aren’t cancellable on hit, block or whiff. Therefore no option select can be created of back throw. You’re going to get missles with or without OS so might as well just back throw as normal.

***The air dash/throw or back air dash/throw OS is a bit different to use but similar. ***

Generally for a forward throw what you do mid screen is just jump forward then immediately press f+H then quickly hit M but make sure there’s enough delay so the game knows you’re trying to option select and wont throw out a hard attack. If you get this to work correctly Doom will basically just air dash forward like normal but if you’re near the opponent and you expect them to jump away this will forward throw them towards the corner if they jump and air dash forward towards them if they backdash or stay on the ground. If you try to air throw them and they’re already too high up in the air you’ll still be able to air dash forward then immediately press M to bring yourself back to the ground.

A solid way to test your ideal range for this is go up right next to the opponent then c.M them on hit. You’ll notice on hit they will move back a bit but not too far. This range is just a tap forward or 2 too far away for the OS to work. Just walk one or 2 pixels more forward. This is your ideal range to set this OS up. If the person tries to jump and you do the OS they will get forward air grabbed. If they stay on the ground you can immediately press M during the square jump/air dash and you’re in perfect range for ambiguous cross up/non cross up overhead square jump/air dash M against a lot of characters. Just remember to pretty much press on M the instant u start air dashing.

You can also press uf+H~M to do air dash upward throw OS. This works well if someone is coming down from a forward or neutral jump close to you. You’ll get a slight bit of extra height before air throwing them and this is powerful in the corner. Once you get people in the corner you can mix up between jump forward H~M OS and uf+H~M OS. If you think they will probably stay blocking (usually they’ll be crouch blocking) do jump forward+H~M OS. If they did jump you’ll OS forward throw them to set up free corner juggle and if they stay on the ground you get free square dash M. You can also whiff the square dash M by pressing H instead incase they try to advance guard your M. There’s also techniques to use if they do advance guard your M to stay in that some people brought up earlier and I’ll go into further another time when I’ve experimented more.

If you already see them jump up or back away from you and catch it early enough you can OS uf+H~M to catch up with them quickly and OS air dash up forward throw. If they do anything but immediately press an attack you’ll get them up and otherwise you’ll air dash forward up towards them and can press M to try to counter hit them out of something on the way up. If you miss them you can just wait to come back down when they come down depending on if they jumped or super jumped and try again.

You can even do a back throw OS which is a bit less useful but works if it lands. Basically do a similar technique trying to catch them jumping and press b+H~M after jumping backwards. If they are close enough for air throw you’ll back air throw for free OTG combo anywhere. If they are too far away to air throw instead of getting lame ass heavy gun coming out you’ll air dash backward.

The only issue with these OS tactics especially the air dash backward one is that you can’t block when you’re air dashing. Which means if the OS doesn’t grant u a throw try to press M so you can get back to the ground as quickly as possible. If you just let the back or forward air dash ride you can be in big trouble if they have a quick air super or special.

Naked L plasma beam hit confirm to supers

The strategy guide tells you its best to use H beam for its strong durability and active frames making it so the person can’t jump towards you and hit you unless they clear a certain distance first before jumping. L beam is still good though because even the L beam will beat out other beams in priority like Magneto’s disruptahs and is still faster than any of Iron Man’s unibeams i believe. Once you get within about sweep range or slightly outside and have 3 meters L plasma beam becomes powerful. I looked at the combo that duck strong did where you can combo H plasma beam into level 3. I tried doing this with L plasma beam and found interesting results. Basically as long as u hit the person with L plasma beam and they are going to fall within the max range of the super u can just hit confirm into level 3 super and this will combo for basically 500,000 damage.

Which means when you get within closer ranges you can employ a strategy of anti advance guard rushdown to force people toward the corner or employ a strategy of catching them trying to move away or counter attack with L plasma beam. If it hits anywhere a bit outside of sweep range the 5 hits from the beam are basically a hit comfirm to land on the electric spark that travels across the ground when u activate level 3. If you land L plasma beam then XFC into level 3 with level 3 XF that’s basically a 900,000 damage L plasma beam. :looney:

You can also use this in anti air situations because of the solid hit box. If someone is trying to jump in at you and its not directly on top of your head you can just launch L plasma beam. If it anti airs them make activate level 3 at a time so they will land on the spark and boom 500k+ damage anti air. This works from a pretty solid range. If they are pretty close to you but you still see an opportunity to anti air with L plasma beam you can go into sphere flame afterwards to save meter and do still solid damage. The sphere flame setup also works with H molecular shield.

I found it really strange that something as simple and good as L plasma beam to level 3 wasn’t listed in the strategy guide but i guess they wanted us to figure out that the electric spark was a sneak juggle setup for it.

Amazing stuff, DevilJin! You’ve given me more incentive to keep using Doom. I have used Molecular Shield H to go into Sphere Flame for fun. I’m just hoping more people use Doom more than just Hidden Missiles. I have him with Plasma Beam assist for crossups.

[liluoke]

thanks deviljin. you make us proud. i was actually just thinking about option select dashes with doom and i missed alioune’s video. your explanation is excellent on the ground forward throw/st.C->dash option select. i will definitely work in the lab w/ this

also the l plasma beam to level 3 hyper sounds ridiculous. i got to try this right now haha.

[je110]

Don’t know if anyone has pointed this out yet, and don’t know how much practical function it’s going to have, but some info regarding X-Factor Canceling Doom’s Sphere Flame:

Once the Sphere Flame is out, it stays out, even after the X-Factor Cancel. This means you can release it, XFC, and it still gets all of its hits, and they get the damage boost from X-Factor. You can also Sphere Flame -> XFC -> Sphere Flame, causing the two Sphere Flames to overlap, each getting the damage boost from X-Factor. Just a raw SF -> XFC -> SF does well over 1 mil, and at the end of a combo, I can easily push it up to over 1.4mil. Obviously, it’s easy to get lethal damage with just about anybody using an XFC, but figured I’d share.

Also, if you want to get really silly and unnecessary, you can do a combo into Sphere Flame -> XFC -> Sphere Flame -> DHC into Ryu’s vertical Shinkuu Hadoken and get it up over 1.8mil.

[ENigma420]

I posted the fact that i doesn’t cancel the animation of the Hyper, but i wasn’t sure what happened when another one was thrown, good stuff to know

[Killtz]

I’ve seen a number of people who have done that before. I’ve been using Sphere Flame XFC Sphere Flame for a while, and sometimes just SF XFC by itself to kill. Lvl 3 XF it does somewhere around like 80% on most characters (haven’t looked into the numbers).

[Crono_SteelShade]

Hey. Been messing around with Doom in training mode, specifically cancelling ground moves with a dash. Turns out you can combo st. :h: xx :uf: dash xx :f: :h: dive xx :df: dash xx cr. :l:, the timing is strict, but the best use I’ve found for this is to continue a blockstring off any blocked ground move. It is really hard to block, since the dive hits overhead and the low short comes out so quickly after the dash cancel. I’ll keep messing with it.

[je110]

Hey. Been messing around with Doom in training mode, specifically cancelling ground moves with a dash. Turns out you can combo st. :h: xx :uf: dash xx :f: :h: dive xx :df: dash xx cr. :l:, the timing is strict, but the best use I’ve found for this is to continue a blockstring off any blocked ground move. It is really hard to block, since the dive hits overhead and the low short comes out so quickly after the dash cancel. I’ll keep messing with it.

Pretty sure Doom’s Dive Kicks can all be blocked low, actually. Would be super nice if that worked though.

[Crono_SteelShade]

Huh. I had the computer on training mode block it low and it hit. Must double check, but you might be right.

[je110]

Huh. I had the computer on training mode block it low and it hit. Must double check, but you might be right.

Hyper Guide says it can be blocked low, but we did also just get a patch, so I’ll definitely look into it to see if it maybe has changed.

[triplexraider]

Hey. Been messing around with Doom in training mode, specifically cancelling ground moves with a dash. Turns out you can combo st. :h: xx :uf: dash xx :f: :h: dive xx :df: dash xx cr. :l:, the timing is strict, but the best use I’ve found for this is to continue a blockstring off any blocked ground move. It is really hard to block, since the dive hits overhead and the low short comes out so quickly after the dash cancel. I’ll keep messing with it.

I was practicing the string in the lab. I can’t get off the cr. L, but I think the pressure from st. H (or cr. H)-> instant dash -> instant jump -> Foot Dive is already enough to drive any opponent mad.

Foot Dive is not an overhead and I don’t think the patch changed it. Then again, I don’t think we have the full list. If it does low, then oh boy, Doom is even scarier than before.

[Dedemaru]

The guide says the super-jumping and hitting L Photon Shot and airdashing behind it is a good way to get in. Is this true? Does anyone else do this?

[Johnick]

1. Akuma (Tatsu)
2. Dante (Jam Session)
3. Doctor Doom (Hidden Missiles)

Having trouble with Wekser Teleport + Gun spammers and Chun Li lighting legs spam, for Wekser I can screw up his timing with Doom’s missile assist and then teleport behind him with Dante, but doom gets hit a lot and even dies sometimes by players who like throwing out random Maximum Wesker (which is a lot). I have limited success with Air throws seeing as Weskers Telport doesn’t track so you never know the exact spot he is going to appear in, when I go for an air throw I either A)get the throw b) land a heavy attack c) whiff a heavy attack and get punished on the way down.

Same thing against decent Chun’s but if I teleport behind them I get air thrown, I push block against lightning legs but screw up half the time I need to punish.

I mainly use Dante and Akuma and mostly use Doom for the missile assist, outside of assist I only use doom if I need to heal Dante or Akuma, or if Dante and Akuma are dead. Obviously being able to use Doom alone would help but its only Wesker and Chun I have trouble with, so whats the main thing Doom can do against them solo ?.

Help appreciated

[DevilJin_01]

If you’re running a team that’s more offensive like Akuma and Dante along with your Doom dont use hidden missles. It’s more of a liability than doing anything good for you. Hidden missles is really overrated IMO unless put on a team where at least one or 2 of the other characters has as strong or zoning/range game as Doom to protect the assist. Sent spamming beams or Dorm putting laser pillars or dark holes on the screen is much better protection than anything Dante or Akuma can give. You have to take care of hidden missles like a baby or it gets blown up against people who know how to deal with it.

Dante having a quick homing teleport will benefit greatly from Doom beam assist which has less vulnerable frames giving you more freedom to use it to get in. Pretty much once u have beam out it gives you a free teleport to get in with Dante. Same thing I do with Wesker to create safe 50/50 crosses. Since the assist version of Doom’s beam is the M version you get 8 low durability frames which will make it really good for stuffing out other projectiles and beams. Doom’s beam is pretty much the most durable beam in the game (especially the H version).

The only reason Maximum Wesker is blowing your hidden missles assist is because it has no horizontal hit box. Its meant to be protected by zoning/spam from another zone based on point character. Maximum Wesker is designed as a full screen whiff punish so anytime u throw out unprotected missles he’s going to eat huge damage from a super that normally doesn’t do much damage. Dante IMO is a pretty solid counter (or at least does well) against Wesker so try to have him out against Wesker. Pretty much as long as u have some kind of sword normal out his teleports become risky because they have recovery and can get slammed by them easily if he does a bad port especially without using gun shot or calling assist first. Remember also that Maximum Wesker has about 10 frames of start up and has no invincibility. You can pretty much just swing a sword normal at the point u think he’s going to do it and if it hits you can full combo him. Sentinel can do the same thing just swinging frying pan around and if he tries maximum wesker he’s dead. If worst comes to worst just block and take the chip and like the 10 percent damage you might take if it crosses you up.

When it comes to gun spam…its not that good. Its good at keeping Wesker from getting hit but it really does nothing to win him the match unless he’s fighting a big character that can’t crouch it. All 3 of your characters can crouch under the gun so just sit and crouch under it. I hear Wesker is unsafe on block if he makes you block the gun then tries to teleport in front or behind you already and if you crouch and shoots then tries to teleport he’s going to be able to be hit pretty much for free when he comes out of the teleport. Just stay patient and realize that Wesker is eventually going to try to come to you and when he does just hit him. Without a good assist unless u press a jumping attack or air dash at a bad time in the air gun isn’t a huge deal.

I dont really think Chun Li is that good of a character but if you’re having trouble I would suggest using Doom’s beam assist to help you with Dante so or Akuma so you can get in. Chun Li has a lot of trouble with zoning and lame game and at the same time you can use that doom beam assist to give you a safe teleport setup. If you can get her in position to block the beam you can basically teleport or generally move towards them with Akuma for free. If you land a hit combo. If not you’re much closer to getting in. Legs spam is a big problem cuz better Chun Lis will know how to convert it into combos and it has broke as priority and is +10 on block but that’s why its better to just work on spacing Chun Li for a while and wittle her out because she can’t really move in well on good spacing. It’s just once she gets in she’s gonna try to mow you down with legs and air dashes.

Remember to make sure you learn tools to use Doom on point as well. Whenever I hear of someone using hidden missles assist I think of Noel Brown’s Doom which is basically great assist then basically does nothing at all with Doom on point and loses. Doom beam assist + learning Doom’s on point tools will help you a lot.

As far as like general tips for Doom on point vs. Wesker and Chun (I play Wesker/Doom/Chun actually) is I would say against Wesker try just to keep stuff on the screen if he’s away from you. His gun shot is good but as long as you put L and H plasma beams on the screen and mix that up with Photon shot that’s enough to get him to change to a more offensive strategy. Jumping against a good Wesker unnecessarily is more of an issue than staying on the ground because if u jump and air dash and he hits you out of the air with the horizontal ground shot you’re eating a big combo. Only really jump if he goes to the air with the gun. If he’s on the ground just stay on the ground and try to punish and random attempts to teleport above your head with air throw, air M, photon shot or sphere flame super. Definitely remember also that you can control how many hidden missles you can throw when Doom is on point. Instead of throwing all 8 like the assist version you can just choose to call 2 or 3. 2 or 3 then shooting photon shot or H beam covers pretty much most of the ways Wesker can appraoch you. Even if he does get in and combos you the missles will most likely track him and he’ll be forced to stop the combo or get broken out of it and possibly get put in a combo himself.

Eventually you’ll want to pressure him though so once u learn your ground movement you’re best off looking for opportunities when he isn’t shooting gun on ground to move in with dash cancelled air dash M’s and generally fish for him doing bad air teleports so you can air back throw him into combos. Dr.Doom cracked out in X Factor level 3 will be great for fighting Wesker cuz it will be much harder for him to run away from you, you’ll be able to spam your zone game even faster, and if u touch him he should be pretty much gone.

Against Chun I would suggest a similar play style. IMO its easier than fighting Wesker though because from a range she doesn’t really have much. She can’t even really throw ground projectiles to zone with you because H plasma beam has 12 points of low durability and will eat her fireballs up for breakfast. The only thing Chun is ever going to do to Doom I would feel is just try to get in because once she gets in he doesnt’ really have a whole lot to get her off. Her normals are generally faster, he can’t suddenly reposition himself away from her and legs in general is just a big issue for Doom at close range. I would say the best strategy is employ a similar strategy you would use against Wesker. Throw out 2 or 3 hidden missles then throw out H beam or photon shot. Chun Li doesn’t have any tools that instantly bring her to the ground from the air like Wesker’s H teleport so photon shots in general shouldn’t be terrible to just throw out to give you more spacing if needed. Just dont rely on it too often cuz if she gets in and presses a button when u try another photon shot you will get hit and take damage. Photon Shot has no priority at close range and he is easily hit out of it by ground moves.

If she does get in I would try to use H molecular shield to back her out then immediately call another 2 or 3 missles so she gets combo broken if she tries to hit you or throw out L beam to blast her back. Remember if u have 3 meters that a landed L beam at close range is free level 3 super so remember to employ that once she tries to get close. Once u turn on the X Factor it should be easier to play a more aggressive style and just dash cancel air dash in on her and land an air M or c.L and do huge damage to her and pretty much win. Even without X Factor if you do land a combo on her you can put her in big hurt easy due to her low health but unless you hit her when her body is towards the corner (like around where the start position is) you’re not really going to be able to instant kill her unless you have level 3 super available. Your best bet is to just have X Factor ready for her I would say or just zone her until u do get it.

Amazing stuff, DevilJin! You’ve given me more incentive to keep using Doom. I have used Molecular Shield H to go into Sphere Flame for fun. I’m just hoping more people use Doom more than just Hidden Missiles. I have him with Plasma Beam assist for crossups.

thanks deviljin. you make us proud. i was actually just thinking about option select dashes with doom and i missed alioune’s video. your explanation is excellent on the ground forward throw/st.C->dash option select. i will definitely work in the lab w/ this

also the l plasma beam to level 3 hyper sounds ridiculous. i got to try this right now haha.

No probs. I’m looking to get people to see that there’s more to Doom than just spamming lasers and he’s generally meant to be way more offensive than he was in 2. It’s just people wont see it immediately because in order to do it it requires dexterity and thinking out of the box that you wont see unless people really sit down and study it and put it together.

The guide says the super-jumping and hitting L Photon Shot and airdashing behind it is a good way to get in. Is this true? Does anyone else do this?

It probably is. I haven’t really even messed with air Photon Shot much as far as its offensive capabilities but I’m sure the potential is there. Buktooth already showed early on in vids that if you hit air photon shot close enough to an opponent while you’re both in the air you can air dash down and start a combo.

Twitch

[Crono_SteelShade]

I was practicing the string in the lab. I can’t get off the cr. L, but I think the pressure from st. H (or cr. H)-> instant dash -> instant jump -> Foot Dive is already enough to drive any opponent mad.

Foot Dive is not an overhead and I don’t think the patch changed it. Then again, I don’t think we have the full list. If it does low, then oh boy, Doom is even scarier than before.

A recording of that combo comes up on the new Doom combo vid. [media=youtube]NldQqkoulww[/media] @ around 1:10 on Hsien-Ko. About the foot dive blocking, I haven’t been able to check it again since I have limited access to my xbox. I actually think the reason that the training mode dummy didn’t block it is because it was set to blocking only low attacks, I guess the foot dive qualifies as a mid attack.

[EvilSamurai]

Great posts DevilJin.

[No_Cigar]

@Doom pplz, when you set it to block low only it doesn’t block mid or high. Dive hits mid, not low or high.

Alright I was in the danger room again theorizing some shit with Doom and I found out some new stuff.

OS dash/throw and OS air dash/air throw

There was a video released a while back where Alioune was showing off that you could option select dash/throw or air dash/throw with Doom. I wasn’t really sure exactly how to do it till one of my friends brought it up. Basically all you have to do is press f+H~H or b+H~M. That basically means you plink or tap really fast H then M right after. Luckily the window to option select is large so if u dont have fast hands u dont even have to do it fast. You can just press forward plus H then tap M at a decent pace though not necessarily SFIV plink fast. This will cause the game to stop the animation of your H attack and cancel it into a ground dash or air dash. Which then the game option selects this into a throw if you are close enough to throw or lets you continue to air dash and press a normal.

Like if you’re on the ground you can do this option select when you’re within throw range by pressing f or b+H then M. Fast but with just enough delay so the game knows you’re trying to switch options. This works where if you’re near somebody and they try to jump or backdash away and you do the forward dash/throw OS you’ll stay moving in near them instead of whiffing a f+H hard kick. Which then of course since your dashing you can cancel into jump then press M+H when you’re at correct air dash height (not very high but not too low) to cancel the dash into a square jump then immediately press M so you do a square jump M and bring yourself back to the ground.

This option select becomes powerful in the corner if they’re stand or crouch blocking as long as they dont tech the throw. Basically what happens is if they just sit there and block they get forward thrown to free corner juggle. If they try to jump away you can still cancel the dash to a jump then then press M+H then M to air dash/square dash forward with M to bring yourself back to the ground and set up a possible air throw situation or anti air them with air M again or hard kick to set up launcher.

Unfortunately this option select doesn’t work with back throw because b+H is Doom’s hidden missles and hidden missiles are a strange command normal that aren’t cancellable on hit, block or whiff. Therefore no option select can be created of back throw. You’re going to get missles with or without OS so might as well just back throw as normal.

***The air dash/throw or back air dash/throw OS is a bit different to use but similar. ***

Generally for a forward throw what you do mid screen is just jump forward then immediately press f+H then quickly hit M but make sure there’s enough delay so the game knows you’re trying to option select and wont throw out a hard attack. If you get this to work correctly Doom will basically just air dash forward like normal but if you’re near the opponent and you expect them to jump away this will forward throw them towards the corner if they jump and air dash forward towards them if they backdash or stay on the ground. If you try to air throw them and they’re already too high up in the air you’ll still be able to air dash forward then immediately press M to bring yourself back to the ground.

A solid way to test your ideal range for this is go up right next to the opponent then c.M them on hit. You’ll notice on hit they will move back a bit but not too far. This range is just a tap forward or 2 too far away for the OS to work. Just walk one or 2 pixels more forward. This is your ideal range to set this OS up. If the person tries to jump and you do the OS they will get forward air grabbed. If they stay on the ground you can immediately press M during the square jump/air dash and you’re in perfect range for ambiguous cross up/non cross up overhead square jump/air dash M against a lot of characters. Just remember to pretty much press on M the instant u start air dashing.

You can also press uf+H~M to do air dash upward throw OS. This works well if someone is coming down from a forward or neutral jump close to you. You’ll get a slight bit of extra height before air throwing them and this is powerful in the corner. Once you get people in the corner you can mix up between jump forward H~M OS and uf+H~M OS. If you think they will probably stay blocking (usually they’ll be crouch blocking) do jump forward+H~M OS. If they did jump you’ll OS forward throw them to set up free corner juggle and if they stay on the ground you get free square dash M. You can also whiff the square dash M by pressing H instead incase they try to advance guard your M. There’s also techniques to use if they do advance guard your M to stay in that some people brought up earlier and I’ll go into further another time when I’ve experimented more.

If you already see them jump up or back away from you and catch it early enough you can OS uf+H~M to catch up with them quickly and OS air dash up forward throw. If they do anything but immediately press an attack you’ll get them up and otherwise you’ll air dash forward up towards them and can press M to try to counter hit them out of something on the way up. If you miss them you can just wait to come back down when they come down depending on if they jumped or super jumped and try again.

You can even do a back throw OS which is a bit less useful but works if it lands. Basically do a similar technique trying to catch them jumping and press b+H~M after jumping backwards. If they are close enough for air throw you’ll back air throw for free OTG combo anywhere. If they are too far away to air throw instead of getting lame ass heavy gun coming out you’ll air dash backward.

The only issue with these OS tactics especially the air dash backward one is that you can’t block when you’re air dashing. Which means if the OS doesn’t grant u a throw try to press M so you can get back to the ground as quickly as possible. If you just let the back or forward air dash ride you can be in big trouble if they have a quick air super or special.

So does the ground dash O-S throw work after a normal xx dash o-s? I doubt it because they would still be in blockstun and you can’t throw when they’re in blockstun.

So when would you do this? Maybe after a string xx dash xx trijump back down?

[Crimson_Cobra]

Due to the health nerf on sentinel
i have finally returned to Doom(A Character whom i used a lot online in MVC2)and to be honest i think this might turn out better then if i had stuck with sentinel

[DevilJin_01]

So does the ground dash O-S throw work after a normal xx dash o-s? I doubt it because they would still be in blockstun and you can’t throw when they’re in blockstun.

So when would you do this? Maybe after a string xx dash xx trijump back down?

Well it wouldn’t be terribly hard to apply if you’re the only character in the game that can move while the opponent is in block stun without using an assist first. Everyone else has to plant an assist down to continue strings/shut down advance guard pushback or break up strings and force people to press buttons and counter hit them or dash in after. You pretty much have the idea where even without assist there should be enough block stun on the c.M to dash, jump cancel dash, ADD or ADDF into range where you can OS forward throw. This should become pretty tricky especially if the opponent tries to advance guard a c.M or c.H you can dash in half way then jump up into foot dive. Especially if you call a lockdown beam or attack assist during the middle of it which will already negate the pushblock.

[media=youtube]0gLtXmtuQ3Y[/media]

This is the original video that shows off like basically how the OS is done if the opponent tries to jump away. Apparently you can even use the ground based OS to catch peopel jumping away and it will auto correct into a forward throw in the other direction. I’ll have to test that out too. Actually now that I think about it he’s probably just dashing under the jump then jump cancelling the dash into OS air dash/throw.

Due to the health nerf on sentinel
i have finally returned to Doom(A Character whom i used a lot online in MVC2)and to be honest i think this might turn out better then if i had stuck with sentinel

Cool stuff. I always thought Sentinel was overrated and derpy (especially now with 400k health nerf lulz). No one’s really discovering anything with him so I dont really see his viability really panning out in the long run outside of being a strong assist. The only Sentinel that remotely impresses me as far as like mix ups and pressure is Marn’s and even then he could be doing more stuff with another character. When he’s on point he’s alright if he can hit you but his avenues to hit you IMO are very limited and pretty much require an assist backing him up or he just gets turtled out or rushed down pretty easily against someone who isn’t afraid of pan or hyper armor normals. There’s characters that can out zone him and characters he can’t really keep away so he’s just in the middle trying to throw stuff around or just be dependent on as an assist till he can come out and swing something and turn on X Factor. It’s very easy to make him whiff a c.M and then just air dash on top of him with a combo or dive kick on top of him into combo. The only thing he has to protect himself that’s safe on block is hard drive and that forces him to waste meter that he needs to kill you any way.

He’s just a really lazy typical US style character that gets a lot for not much but doesn’t really have a lot of ways to actually hit people at high level play other than praying they run into something he throws out that’s usually punishable outside of his air normals. Which even his air normals most characters have something they can run away and shoot them with or they can air dash under on anticipation and air throw into combo. The latter being risky but now with only having 900k health it’s like why not do it? Better than giving him a chance to hit u into lazy death combo.

**Right now I feel people still have a lot to learn with Doom’s overall gameplan but once it’s all figured out it should be very strong. ** The only Dooms that Ive seen in tourney play that are like really solid and not just throw out hidden missles all day are Wong’s and Clockwork’s and neither really seem to take much advantage of his OS throw or dash cancel techniques. I guess it’s kind of a moot point for Clockwork since he’s just trying to build meter for broke ass D.Phoenix but it wouldn’t hurt to make Doom’s offense stronger and not have to rely on assists all the time to stop advance guard. Wong does a decent job of mixing in the air dash M’s and air dash whiff H’s to c.L’s but again doesn’t really push the anti advance guard game or throw game like he could.

Which I think part of making Doom strong is finding out the best avenues to push people into the corner. Which is pretty much what the strategy guide tells you to do. I’ve been trying to look at different combos to see which ones have the best wall carry (push people to the corner the easiest). Doom has death combos with one meter, no xfactor against anyone with 900k or less health if he hits them while they are towards the corner and u have an assist that can pop them back up after the last dive loop into H plasma beam cancel super. These combos build 2 and a half meters exactly so as long as you have half a meter you’ll get the meter you need in the end to DHC into another character to start killing characters with about Ryu health or blow it all on the level 3 to kill anyone that has anything less than 1.2 million health (you’ll get about 1.15 to 1.17ish million damage).

When you land a combo mid screen it seems the best avenue is just to finish into sphere flame for about a bit more than 500k or loop into air photon array and DHC that into someone else that can still hit and get a bit more damage. Yet that costs 2 meters for a bit more damage midscreen. Generally there isn’t a lot of solid ways for Doom to hit someone for a fuck ton of damage or carry them to the corner to do so when his back is at start position or closer to the corner. If you hit someone when you’re in the center of the screen or closer to the corner you pretty much have to burn 3 meters to get a bit more than 700k with level 3. The only scary thing he seems to have mid screen (but it is pretty fucking scary) is to do basic bnb foot dive combo mid screen into c.M, c.H sphere flame, immediately active level 2 or level 3 XFC then do another sphere flame before the first one blows up. This 2 meter XFC combo gives you about 1.5 million damage at level 3 XF (enough to overkill pre patch Sent by 200k).

Obviously without Sent being nerfed to 900k (why capcom why this would be so much fun to do to him) the game its not really necessary to do 2 sphere flames unless you hit a full health Hulk, Haggar, Tron or Thor. Even if you just do like c.L,M,H,S jump air M, f+H, ADDF, air M, c.M,H sphere flame than activate level 2 XFC you should get about 903 damage which is enough to kill Dante or Sent (LOL). Then you have X Factor ready to go and your basic bnbs will pretty much just about kill people and you’re much faster so all your block string and throw games will become stronger and your beams will be faster thereafter. Which at level 2 you’ll still have an assist to use also. If say you just wanna get straight up as much damage as you can and you’re by yourself you can do buktooth loop of c.L then do sphere flame XFC before it blows up and you’ll get like 1.08 to 1.12 ish million damage. Which if you XFC early enough after the sphere you’ll get the 1.12 which is enough to kill Wesker and almost kill She Hulk. Then you’re ready to go in XF level 3.

I was just thinking of something else actually that I’ll touch on real quick right now.

Uses of heavy gun (air H)

This is something I wanted to get into cuz someone mentioned about the use of heavy gun in combos. Using it after starting a combo adds a lot of hit stun decay the move by itself I’m starting to feel is a real strong part of Doom’s offense that almost no one is using enough yet. Basically…if we go by what the strategy guide says which is it’s important to push people into the corner with Doom then heavy gun will probably be a big part of that. I’ll probably have to read the strategy guide again to see exactly what it says but from what I was messing around with in training mode…heavy gun puts the opponent in an unrecoverable juggle state. No matter when you hit them in the air they are stuck in a juggle state and can not attack or move again till they hit the ground. This is important because Doom’s beam takes up like most of the screen space if he gets all the active frames out and will definitely stuff or trade some assist or other things that are out on the screen.

I feel this is important because basically you can employ a game of throwing out heavy gun when the opponent is within normal jump height or lower and if it hits this does 2 things. One if you are too far away to juggle them it puts them in an unrecoverable falling state from near full screen away. The second is if you’re close enough to hit them with a c.M (which the c.M will actually hit from a solid range once you get in) you can go into c.H into S launch and go into something basic like air M, H foot dive, ADDF, air M, c.M, c.H, S, etc. The only issue is that the heavy gun adds a lot of hit stun so you’re not really able to follow up with much afterwards without them falling out mid screen.

This still gets pretty strong though because if the opponent blocks this you get to move in on them while possibly stuffing an attempt of them trying to hit you with a move and move in. Once you get towards the corner this becomes powerful because with all of your other offensive techniques you can use this move to keep them in check.

Now the issue you’ll run into is that people will catch on to this and start advance guarding your heavy gun to push you away and keep you from pushing them to the corner. That’s when it’s good to start pulling out an assist like Chun Li’s legs assist during the heavy gun. Remember to use a neutral or forward regular jump during the heavy gun so that you can still call assist. When you do this (preferably when jumping forward) Chun Li will come out right next to you or out in front of you and if you are close enough to the opponent will force them to block the heavy gun in mid air then they as they are falling to the ground they will be stick blocking the legs assist. They can’t advance guard the assist so they are basically trapped by the assist and you get to move and start a mix up after they get out of the assist block stun and land a combo or throw and push them towards the corner.

The other thing you’ll probably have to worry about with heavy gun is that it has like no projectile durability at all. The fact that it’s a projectile makes it a great poke against a lot of physical attacks but if you’re fighting against another projectile character or beam character they’ll start shooting stuff at it to avoid the lockdown capabilities of it. For right now I would guess your best bet to deal with this is to mix it up by shooting an air photon shot and following it with an ADDF to get in or just stay on the ground and blast out their projectile with H plasma beam then go back up to try and laser again.

[Veserius]

General combo question, I can Buktooth loop(though I can’t sphere flame ender yet I do photons), I have a corner loop I like that does 1.05 with level 3, and if the midscreen loop pushes them to the corner I can transition to the corner loop and either level 3 or end with sphere flame.

Is there really anything else I should be doing combo wise? adding assists in just messes up my hitstun scaling. It seems those two combos are perfect and there isn’t anything else to be doing other than learning what to do with xfactor cancels.