yeah running away from lvl 3 xfactor’d people in the air lol
When dash cancelling after a normal, how are you doing it? For example, If I wanted to cancel a move like c.h into a j.m I was trying to dash forward then jump up and airdash, then medium. Then I realized after the c.h I could just hit dash while holding up, airdash and do the medium. Up with dash then airdash is really easy and feels natural cause your basically just hitting dash twice in a row, it’s not confusing at all. It’s probably how everyone is doing it anyways,but I just found it today and thought id share.
Hey had me locked down, if I tried to jump the Plasma Beam would hit me… maybe it was light or medium.
This is really cool! I’m going to give it a try!
Question guys, when super jumpingxxphoton ray (the qcb+ Atk), is there a way to speed up the cancel? I keep doing it as fast as I can but end up being to high pressure opponents from the L version! Suggstions?
I’m sure it has been asked, but what are the best ways to approach with Doom? J.M and J.H isn’t really getting me anywhere, and I can’t seem to get close to anyone without risking getting hit by a projectile.
Posting this here instead of the combo thread because the combos have more effect than simply damage. It gives better position and different followup options than most. Maybe I should post in the combo thread also?
You can combo into spencer B for a reset attempt. This is a standing , untechable recovery from hitstun.
Easiest is any knockdown into s.H + Spencer, fly to cancel recovery then ->H dive kick. Then his standard mixup. Dash any direction to high/low/away/block. Here’s a combo I find easier than Buktooth that lets you land a s.H at any rep.
My reset combo : [launch, S -> addf xx M land, dash, s.H ] X n otg + spencer xx fly Hdive xx air dash
Some explanation: During the rep air dash you must attack to cancel the dash and land faster. I usually double tap L+M to get a quick dash and cancel. This gives enough time to land and ground dash in to land the otg. I’ve tested on a large variety of the cast and I am convinced it works on everyone. Some characters make it hard to land 3 reps. It is safe to get 2 reps on everyone. Zero is weird as usual for the otg combos: he needs two hits of the s.H before launch. Everyone else I’ve tried lets you get away with 1 hit for better scaling on damage. Sent/Tron you can do 2 reps and then the last M, Hdive, S dive due to the large bodies.
If you have a hard time connecting the otg you can use s.M instead for worse damage. But it starts faster for more leeway.
If you opt to finish the combo (3 reps + a fourth M, Hdive, Sdive,addf otg+ assist mol shield sphere flame) you can get damage a little better than the enhanced buktooth combos I’ve been seeing (710k ).
Important : 3 reps will put the opponent in the corner even started from the other corner! 2 reps will corner from nearly anywhere. This is why you can finish the 3 reps with some of the corner combo enders.
If you perform 2 reps then reset into a full corner combo you can get ~=400k + 750k damage. 3 reps + reset ~=500k
One reset if you perform all hits will kill sentinal. The whole thing will cost one meter. This sequence builds lots of meter. 1 bar from reset combo ( 2 reps + finisher). The corner combo builds about 1.5 bars. So you can always end it with a DHC by using air photon super to otg into DHC for over 800k damage.
My favorite part of this is even if the reset attempt fails you put the opponent in the corner with fewer reps than Buktooth. The downsides are the downsides of the divekick mixup.
The weird thing about Doom is all of his beams come out in 22 frames. It’s just the M and H versions have more recovery. His L and h are +2 on block too.
But you could totally block and have time to jump though. I’m not sure what was stopping you
is it possible to do the OTG hidden missile in the corner like this vid [media=youtube]ycs0HJTYIu0[/media] with captain america’s backflip? I have tried in the corner after an airS knockdown ,call missile assist and backflip. However the charcter gets up before the missiles are launch. So I just wanted to confirm is it my timing or does it simply doesnt work?
You can do it off his back throw to.
Doom is losing popularity quickly, particularly on the west coast (the only coast when it comes to marvel 3).
^Doom is really hard to play on point in my opinion.I dont think he is bad on point, but no one has gotten their dooms to a level where they can comfortably play him on point yet. His movement is quite unorthodox and foot dive and square jumping m’s dont dominate your opponents.His keepaway is not as good as MVC2 because molecular shield only hits horizontally instead of flying all over the screen like mvc2 and jumping laser is pretty much garbage with its terrible startup.Plasma beam gets super jumped over.
In my opinion they should have made air plasma beam have a horizontal version.If it was like that you could get damage whilst being mobile in the air, especially if you teamed up with a projectile assist that could cover the ground at the same time.Photon array damage should really have been higher aswell…Dooms best keepaway tools are on the ground but remaining grounded in MVC3 will lead to death quickly unless you have godlike blocking.Doom cant make transitions from ground to air and still be strong like other characters.Dooms keepaway doesnt score you much damage at all.Keepaway characters like Dormammu deal thrice the damage for much less effort.
Right now I would say he is more of a ‘tank’ character that can score big damage from his throws and well timed jumping M’s and foot dives.Also XFC into level 3.I guess its the price you pay for having hidden missiles assist(one of the best in the game).
^-- And?
Seriously this isn’t MvC2, you cannot spam the same thing over and over again and expect to kill your opponent. He has great tools, but they have their time and place. You don’t need “god-like blocking”.
Photon shots have their place but keeping your opponent at bay. In the air photon shots can be followed up by an airdash to either keep yourself distant or start being offensive.
The j.H is great when you anticipate a jump or against tall characters, but you must use it at the right range, you can’t recklessly throw it out and recklessly throw out repeatedly.
Empty trijumps into c.L or throw, crossup j.M trijumps are still at Doom’s disposal so he’s hardly predictable in his rushdown department.
A lot of the stuff I’m going to say here is kinda just stronger reiteration of what i said earlier but here goes. I still personally think there’s just a good bit more to be learned about his overall game. The way they designed Dr.Doom its going to take lots of little bits of putting things together to really make him what he should be. I really feel that the more people learn about him the more offensive he will be and the less defensive he will be. Which makes sense because his defensive game while self sufficient a lot of characters can overcome (especially characters with derpy ridiculously high super jumps or super low normal jumps Haggar/She Hulk) by jumping in randomly and just not respecting it due to the lack of damage potential if hit. Haggar or She Hulk isn’t going to care how many times u hit them with a beam as long as they can jump keep holding up forward and slam u one time with the pipe or or SHe’s 270degree arc j.H which goes into way more damage than what u get off a plasma beam or molecular shield.
It’s definitely going to have to do a lot with being able to air dash in with the M and hard foot dive and finding ways to break u advance guard as you go in whether its through assist or other techniques. One technique ive found from the strategy guide to break up advance guard is if u start off by doing air dash M and they push block it u can H foot dive. When you H foot dive after an advance guarded air M you are so low to the ground that if u cancel it into L photon shot after making contact with your opponent (hit or block it seems) that the L photon shot will push u to the ground (since it always slowly pushes u towards the ground in the air) and cancel itself then u can continue pressure. You can also apply this technique by just doing H foot dive super low to the ground from far away and if they block then try to advance guard u do the same technique and beat the advance gaurd. The timing to beat advance guard with this technique is pretty strict though. You pretty much have to do the air L photon shot on the exact moment they start the advance guard or you’ll get pushed back. Its almost like just framing a special move to their advance guard. If they dont advance guard you can of course just dash down forward as usual. You can also just make this easier by doing air dash down forward after H foot dive which seems to have pretty much the same effect and moves you closer to your opponent.
This technique is strong because it exemplifies the probable strategy that Capcom really wants people to employ witih Dr.Doom. Not so much just just pew pewing people all day with lasers but using anti advance guard techniques to constantly force pushback on the opponent and push them into the corner. Which once u do that your mix up, pressure and possible damage output all become greater. If you land a combo mid screen you pretty much just wall carry them to the corner then apply the same strategies. Once you push people to the corner you can go for super tri jump c.L/ air dash M/throw mix ups mixed in with foot dive air dash down forward cancels and and normal attack to dash jump cancels to really keep the pressure up. An interesting thing you can do once u have the opponent in the corner also is that Doom’s H foot dive has the unique ability to get behind people EVEN if they are cornered if u jump just over their body and use it. Basically allowing u another mix up to c.L to land big damage or back throw them to put them back in the corner for more damage.
**Overall the idea **is to use air dash M cancelled to air L photon shot or air dash down forward when blocked, cancel air dash M into foot dive into air L photon shot or air dash down forward when blocked and constantly pressure with dash jump cancelled normals to force people to advance guard. The other main strategy is to connect with a normal (preferably on block), dash cancel to jump cancel it which allows you super low H foot dive to more pressure. The cool thing about his normal attack dash jump cancels is that they completely bypass advance guard. Which what ends up happening is that their attempts to advance guard to keep you out keep getting cancelled by your anti advance guard dash/air dash techniques and all they end up doing is pushing themselves into the corner. Normally if your opponent tries to advance guard you it pushes them back towards the corner but at the same time pushes you away. With the normal attack dash cancel techniques if they advance guard they will be the only ones getting pushed back towards the corner.
With all of that i theorize that once Dr.Doom is completely gotten down to a science he will be very very offensive. Most characters have to call an assist or hope they have anti advance guard special moves to get around advance guard, but Dr.Doom is designed where pretty much once u force the person to start blocking they will most likely have no chioce but to mash on reversals, assist or jump away to escape. People trying to run advance guard against a Dr.Doom that knows all of the dash cancel techniques will force themselves into all kinds of pressure and mix up and even if somehow they block and tech throw everything they will be pretty much pushed into the corner. Which will force people to have to resort to regular SF style blocking/reversal techniques and risk being pushed into the corner very fast trying to do so. Especially if they are dumb enough to try advance guarding your pressure.
I really like using characters with a lot of advanced mix up/techniques and originally I only picked up Dr.Doom because i wanted a character that could pew pew all day to back up the other 2 characters i would use that would be more offensive. I’m really glad i got into learning Dr.Doom though because although he has a pretty solid zone game he’s actually a character that seems to have very creative offense that when figured out I think will be quite the force also. I’m nowhere near putting this all together myself and making it work in like tournament play obviously. At the same time, from reading what was in the guide and putting some things together I can pretty much visually see what Doom is going to look like at high level play in the future and its pretty much a complete change of a character. If my theory is correct he’s going to be a character that people will respect for his technicality and ability to play a pretty much jack of all trades style in the future.
Is there anything else the guide mentioned thats pretty important to know about Doom? For the top 16, i knew his combos, knew how to zone and such, but just simply had problems actually landing a hit
Edit: i see the edit you did. Ty for the information, that definitely helps. i wish i had that sort of stuff rdy for FR but o well, there’s always the future.
Yeah there’s a lot of cool stuff I feel that’ll be put together with him in the future. Sucks I didn’t put it all together sooner for you, heh.
It’s really starting to make sense though. This all pretty much points to exactly why they dont allow him to normal cancel his dash. The fact that he can cancel in reverse by dash cancelling his normals means he would be pretty much broken if he could normal cancel his dash while still having the ability to dash cancel his normals which completely bypass advance guard. He would just be a ridiculous monster that no one would ever be able to get off. Yet…there will still be a more balanced version of such a monster when people get this all figured out. Either way advance guard is going to be close to useless against a good Doom and that’s going to be big later on for his pressure.
A quick example of a strategy for how this can work is to do something like this. Throw out a c.H from outside the distance that your c.L will connect. c.H has more range than c.L but still easily lands into S into buktooth loop on hit. Basically if you get into a situation where the person blocks your c.H you dash cancel the normal then before the dash ends press up to jump cancel the dash. Then just as you become airborne do H foot dive. This is a strong situation because it allows u to do H foot dive ridiculously low to the ground and H foot dive has retarded good priority. If it hits air dash down forward into free combo. If it’s blocked air dash down forward any way. If they dont advance guard u get in for free and if they try to advance guard that’s even better because along with getting in for free they push themselves closer to the corner due to advance guard push back at the same time that u just got in. Then u can start playing counter hit games by trying to land c.L, c.M or air dash M into S when they try to throw for big damage. You can also try to air dash straight down then counter hit a footsie with his long range c.H and land that into S then big damage. Due to c.H’s slow start up probably more often that not you’ll just be trying to get in c.L range then chaining into c.H which can pretty much follow into the same thing.
This is why Doom’s forward throw doesn’t really do much but push people ridiculously far towards the corner. If you have the person relatively close to the corner after the H foot dive you can ADDF in to forward throw and if they are towards the corner at all the forward throw will finish the job and put them completely in the corner. Then u just foot dive in again to air dash down forward and free corner pressure that can’t be advance guarded. If you are towards the corner you can do the same thing into back throw then same bullshit from there except back throw gives u free OTG combo first. The nice thing about forward throw also is that if both you and the opponent are towards the corner when u land you can juggle them before they fall to the ground and start foot dive looping.
Basically Doom is like Magneto or Iron Man in that he’s really only supposed to be spamming shit from far away to build space and time to go nuts in people’s faces.
Was that a response to my question with missile otg and cpt. back flip? So it is possible?
Hopefully over time, ill get to that level of offense with Doom. i figured that Doom’s dash-jump cancel stuff would be important but you said (in nice detail) why and its application. This should really make Doom’s X-Factor pretty good, and usually i reserve X-factor for him unless the way a match is going tells me i should use it earlier.
Hope this doesn’t sound dumb/noobish…if you know you are going to hit Doom’s f,236+atk,atk hyper(the projectile he throws straight up…)you can throw it, and then x-factor, and it doesn’t cancel the projectile unless you throw another, and hella beefs up the damage. So for example, in the corner, s, jm, jm, js, h(otg), f,236+h, f,236+atk,atk, xfactor, watch them die.
Only a few hypers seems to act this way with the x-factor that we’ve found so far, Doom’s, Hulk’s Gamma Wave(i think that’s the one, where he smashes the ground to hit full screen).
must work on that stuff deviljin was talking about. I’ve been practicing cancelling block strings into dashes into ad m or ad df, (go low or throw). But today everyone was just pushblocking my first square jumping m, and I was too far away to even continue attacking. On a side note, I hate playing against zero, against whom pushblocking seems to not work so well, and makes it hard to tell what is going on. I mean seriously, with all the bright colors and assists, they decide to give him a glowing sword that spins around, makes noises, and hits an ambiguous number of times?
A mixup I’ve implemented using the dash cancel is, after doing a cr.h blocked by the opponent, cancel into an up+forward dash (doom goes skyward), which can then be cancelled into an airdash forward for xx j.m, or down+forward to lead into a low hit string. So basically you’re cancelling a blocked cr.h into either a tri-jump or a square jump. It’s proven to be pretty effective for me, but maybe I was just playing bad people.