Lately the focus on Gen

[Warlike]

I made this thread to bring more activity and positive energy to the Gen forum, I visited some of the more popular characters and they have new threads everyday. The purpose of this thread was to inspire and get people to say hell yeah! and go master Gen more. Which in turn will bring more Gen victories, which just might make more Gen players. But since we are on the topic of tier lists, I definitely believe that Gen is lower tier. His wake up options and health just are not good. The amount of practice and thinking that a player has to use when playing Gen is substantially higher than other characters. cough seth

I’m not saying that cross up ogas are not good. They are definitely good if you can pull them off in a game. However they seem to fail too often, perhaps its my execution. The thing about cross up ogas is that you have to memorize a massive list. Throw to oga has a different setup from lk gekiro, which has a different setup from back throw, which has a different setup from back throw in the corner, the list goes on and on. God forbid you Oga too low, we all know what happens then.

Perhaps I’m looking in the wrong places but lately it seems like the discussion has been on these shenanigans, throws to cross up ultras, different character specific cross up Ogas, discussion about ways to improve our game play consistently has fallen to the side. It seems lately I’ve been attempting these new tricks, yes some times they work and hitting a cross up Oga it feels amazing, but using them puts me into a lot of unsafe situations. Just yesterday I landed a sweep against chun and I remembered reading a post here that I could backdash into ultra 1. Well I attempted it and it was blocked. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about. This forum is a reflection of Gen players collective consciousness, perhaps if the threads were about emphasizing patience and how to zone properly or how to predict in certain match ups, we would improve more. But I’m high, typin off the top of my head, and getting bodied on psn (yes all at the same time), but one thing I know for certain is that Gen is my favorite character to play street fighter with by far.

My solution to the cross up oga situations, let me know what you think. If I feel like attempting a cross up oga after a gekiro I look at the position of where my opponent will land on the screen. If he lands closer to me I use a mk or hk oga. If he lands further away I use a lk or mk oga. A rule of thumb that I use is to always try to wiff the oga or cross up, never let it get blocked. So say I knock down ryu after a gekiro and he lands far away on the screen, I know a lk oga might cross up, but I will do a mk oga because sometimes it crosses up and other times I will be safe after it wiffs. the alternative is to do a lk oga, get blocked and eat a shoryuken fadc to metsu hadoken. For other characters such as sagat and gief I will tend to do a hk or mk oga, never a lk. What do you guys think?

I’d say yes.

Also how is ‘learning a massive list of cross-ups’ an argument against them? If you don’t want to learn them thats fine but for people who do I’m sure (especially the quickstand ones) helps them up their game significantly, as long as you have the required execution there shouldn’t be a problem with those.

Not many people will flock to Gen for this reason, there is too much work you need to put into him and you need to memorize a lot of (sometimes specific) stuff on top of his regular execution diffuculty and his AA’s and so forth.

[street11]

@azndude108

There is absolutely no NEED to memorize every single setup. You can choose to memorize setups for only certain characters after a certain move.

And those cross-up lists were in Shenenigans thread for a reason ;). If you feel like it, you can start a post in his Basics or Match-up/Strategies thread. I will be more than willing to discuss the things you are talking about there.

@The_Theorical

I wanted to end this debate with my last statement but, I guess it’s impolite to not reply.

First of all, I agree about what strengths he has.

However, LK Gekiro being used as a poke is not “knowing”. It’s a prediction and you need to make your opponent predictable then make a correct decision. If he is not sticking out anything then you do it, then it becomes your own mistake. You can be forced to make mistakes as well.

I wasn’t talking about playing perfectly, I was about AAing perfectly. Gen’s air normals, while having great priority and active frames/whatnot, it lacks one thing: vertical range. AAing with low profile really hurts Gen’s game, and if the opponent can do it on reaction (even if you’re unpredictable, it’s meaningless if your opponent can simply AA after seeing you jump), it gets worse. You can hold your own AA games as well, and both sides will never jump unless it’s on wake-up, because both sides don’t have dive kicks. Then it goes to mostly ground game.

I want to make one correction though: better normals -> better zoning game.

Gen’s normals are, in fact, better than Chun in most cases. There are two factors though: fireball and walk speed.

Chun has the best walk speed in the game(plus one of the best dashes) along with some other characters, therefore her effective range of her normals become longer than Gen’s, because players are not just going to push their buttons without walking around. If you walk around in mantis, Chun can feel free to walk out of mantis normals’ range. The solution would be walking around in Crane stance and stance changing for footsie games. Therefore, you have to automatically add 5f to your normal start-ups, since stance changing takes 5f. If you want to keep yourself in mantis, it’s fine. You just have to have either a montrous reaction to her getting in your range or have really great prediction skills. However, to my eyes more prediction = more chance of mistakes.

Let’s not forget st.MP completely whiffs on low profiles. I was surprised to see the number of the slowass cr.MP pokes my Chun opponent made. cr.MP works pretty well against Chun though.

Back to the topic.

As I was saying I want to use everything I can to beat opponents, whether it be character specific or not (If you’re coming to Canada Cup 2011, then expect me to be in a stream using cross-up Ogas). IMHO, having more tools in your arsenal is better than having less tools. I’m absolutely not saying “ignore basics”.

[Warlike]

What is this Canada cup thing and when is it taking place, and is it streamed? Is it a big name event? I might watch it and I hope to see a Gen make to the top (32,16,8 lol).

[street11]

It’s a pretty big tourney that started last year (tho I wasnt there then). It’s takin place in western Canada on November 5~6. There will be single double elim tournaments and 5vs5 international matches. IIRC some big names will be there this year as well. We’re going to have Team Canada qualifier matches the day before, and if I do it well enough, I may even make it as one of the crews. Depends on how others do against me tho.

It’s the 2nd tourney I’m going to attend, but I’m going there to win. Expect me when you see a Gen picking ultra 2 and taunt 6 regardless of the opponent.

[tha_messiah]

I like turtles. (been a while since I’ve seen or heard that)

[Schiff]

It’s the 2nd tourney I’m going to attend, but I’m going there to win. Expect me when you see a Gen picking ultra 2 and taunt 6 regardless of the opponent.

I hope to see you on stream!

[Warlike]

It’s a pretty big tourney that started last year (tho I wasnt there then). It’s takin place in western Canada on November 5~6. There will be single double elim tournaments and 5vs5 international matches. IIRC some big names will be there this year as well. We’re going to have Team Canada qualifier matches the day before, and if I do it well enough, I may even make it as one of the crews. Depends on how others do against me tho.

It’s the 2nd tourney I’m going to attend, but I’m going there to win. Expect me when you see a Gen picking ultra 2 and taunt 6 regardless of the opponent.

Seriously? U1 can punish a lot of things in so many match-ups that it severely limits your opponents game in a lot of cases and crane U1 owns any neutral jump, (late-ish) jump-in, and backward jumps in/near the corner. Why torture yourself with U2 unless I suppose you absolutely need to punish fireballs like that, but I don’t even pick it much for that either tbh.

[street11]

Because I’m trying to rep U2 Gen. Xian is fortunately going there, and I bet he will rep U1 Gen. I seem to play better when I pick U2 as well.

I know that it’s a shitty and lame excuse, but know that I am entering the tournament to win.

[azndude108]

I’d say yes.

Also how is ‘learning a massive list of cross-ups’ an argument against them? If you don’t want to learn them thats fine but for people who do I’m sure (especially the quickstand ones) helps them up their game significantly, as long as you have the required execution there shouldn’t be a problem with those.

Not many people will flock to Gen for this reason, there is too much work you need to put into him and you need to memorize a lot of (sometimes specific) stuff on top of his regular execution diffuculty and his AA’s and so forth.

I take it all back. I think memorizing the character specific cross ups and situational moves are all worth it. These moves can turn around the entire flow of a game. After one attack phase consisting of setups that would end in a cross up oga, Cr. Short, Cr. Jab, S. mp (Optional), TC2, Lk Gekiro -> Juggle high/low -> Specific strength of oga. Cross up Oga is the future of Gens game. Imagine the power of a player who could cross up oga at will and do it off of multiple setups. Cross up Ogas should be pursued with full power.

The next technique that I underestimated is the Cr. Roundhouse -> Mantis Ultra One. Landing this in the first round of the match can permanently condition your opponent to fear your sweep, because it will lead to either a cross up ultra, or a regular, front attacking ultra if you’re a bit slower on the inputs.

These Oga crosses and Cross up ultras are powerful.

[azndude108]

Because I’m trying to rep U2 Gen. Xian is fortunately going there, and I bet he will rep U1 Gen. I seem to play better when I pick U2 as well.

I know that it’s a shitty and lame excuse, but know that I am entering the tournament to win.

Good luck. Taunt is number six…? Is it the one where he says beware my something strength.

[tha_messiah]

I think Six is “You cannot keep my fists in your sight for they move with the fury of hell.”

[ShadowXSnake]

If they have english va on, I just stick with the taunt that makes Gen’s arms flap limply by his sides while he turns his head and says, “HURR.”

[Rhyllis]

If they have english va on, I just stick with the taunt that makes Gen’s arms flap limply by his sides while he turns his head and says, “HURR.”

I laughed. I’ll never not hear that now, you cur.

Also Street11, I greatly respect your dedication. I’m using U2 in more match ups than just fireball ones now, so I hope you manage to do very well! I want to see some U2 awesomeness :). Best of luck to you.

[tha_messiah]

#2 is my favourite “Waste of Time”. I love hearing peoples reactions online when I use it.