Understood now.
@ Iam …good shit I forgot about the distance variations.
far mk(closest distance poss)>F.super works, *.>M.super wont link, super gets blocked due to space, and jab apparently whiffs all day.
Far st.hp also links from 5 to 8 hit combos based on distance.
Neat/
About double kongo:
In Super and in AE is it only possible to double kongo using EX, since we’re now just using punch buttons? Or instead of plinking, can I double tap or piano roll two punches?
In other situation, suppose I have no meter, and I try a double kongo (2 punches plinked). Will it come out like two regular consecutive kongos, like it was in Vanilla (with punch~kick) ?
Super was still kicks and punches so it worked there 
In AE it’s the same move and doesn’t seem to cancel into itself, so only ex version. If it did work you’d only be able to get it when you don’t have meter as the input is the same for the ex kara.
Have you figured out, what exactly was the buff to the kongo hit box? I think they made it larger in the front, b/c HP and MP Kongo both seem to work if some body hits the front of Gouken. It’s only if they cross up or hit him on top of the head where it becomes a little greyish.
Then again I’ve fought Ken’s and Akuma’s who have crossed me up with Air Tatsu and I use mp and get hit, then they do it again and I use hp and get hit.
I understand that the move might been a little too good as an Anti Air as other AA’s have weak spots but damn! It has changed how I aggressive I poke with hado unless I have meter now. They used to jump and I’d kongo or get a free cr. fp for them trying to empty in. Now, I have to look at the placement of the attack BEFORE I hit the button. What crap!!
I tried executing from a crouching position to reduce his hurt box, but the move makes Gouken stand so it doesnt’ work that way like srk does.
It just feels a little stupid that I’d use EX Kongo to AA instead of EX Tatsu, especially when I have the time to get it off. Every time I naked AA Kongo to FADC I’m always holding my breath.
I haven’t tested it to be honest, but I always wondered about the translation, are the activation boxes bigger or the explosion box?
Activation box in the front. I will test it today to pin it down. It’s def the same with cross ups as they are all hit or miss.
Against 2-hit normals, 3 Kongo cancels will not work because focus allows you to move 3 frames earlier most of the times, making your 2nd Kongo get armoured at 4th~ frame. This prevents the third one from coming out.
AFAIK both HP and MP have extended armour box downwards, but HP’s buff seems very slight. MP is noticeable (eg. Ibuki’s F+LK, Gen’s mantis cr.MP can be armoured)
It seems like they would have made the Armour Box for Hp and Mp blend somewhere below his shoulders. The window to beat either HP or MP kongo as AA should have been as slight as stuffing srk IMO.
It probably has some overlapping areas, but I can 80% guarantee you that MP Kongo’s armour box did not extend upwards. I don’t rly use it as AA now, since I prefer cr.LK, cr.HP and LK tatsu.
Uh, but doesn’t Gouken’s mp kongo stop Bisons st hk now? I bet the armor is more complex now, specifically armor on Goukens hand/arm on Mp kongo. So its better for footsies, but still shit/unreliable for AA
You mean in max distance? If it does then it indeed is a news for me.
It does not at max range. Closer yes.
If you take a close look in training at the background, the blocks easily tell you which kongo should be used. Ken , Ryu and others have low attacks that connect almost at Goukens knees use the grid/blocks as a reference point and see that you use lp kongo up to a certain height. Now try Oni, youll see his cr.lp attacks a bit above goukens knees but his attacks fall in the block above where ken , ryus do. He therefore needs mp kongo to counter his cr.lp.
I think the kongos are entirely character attack specific.
And this is the reason kongo has been terribly weakened. I could deal with the AA aspect being changed, but basically giving other characters a mixup based on a flawed design for the move (I.E. Two low zones: Oni cr.lk or Oni cr.lp) is utter BS. Low kongo should block ALL crouching attacks that hit below the waist…period.
On a similar note…wtf with having to block Chun’s overhead move high but having to kongo it low? Just…no.
Indeed, the move should be based on how it needs to be blocked. As it stands, Gouken players need to memorize the (unviewable) hit box of every single strike in the game in order to be effective with the move. What other character has anything close to this kind of requirements?
Which other character has a move that can stop any other non armour break move(not counting the few double hit moves, or certain whiffs) in the game and strike back with an unblockable attack the sends them full screen?
Ken and Ryu’s cr. lp needs to be countered with mp kongo. Gouken’s too.
Was this always the case??
IIRC how kongo originally worked is High Counter for above the waist and Low Counter for below the waist, and alot of those attacks would be covered by low kongo. I understand they wanted to get rid of the kongo spamming and the mentality that all you have to do is hang in there to get a back throw > U1 and win… but damn.
This shit really does have 3 different zones whether the opponent is crouching or not.
I can’t even begin to describe how the nerf to kongo has changed how I play with Gouken. No more throwing a fireball in their face to bait the jump in to kongo their ass… Now you got to know where you are going to get hit or burn meter.
No wonder I thought about maining Akuma so many times… but it is what it is.
Bottom line, if you use Kongo make sure you KNOW where it’s going to hit or use EX. I wouldn’t mind going through the game to pin down all of those attacks that are in the grey area, but I just don’t have enough free time to do it, let alone play the game for an extended period of time.
Yes, it was always this way. This is way I barely use low kongo against a lot of blockstring pressure because its too easy to defeat it.
I normally EX Kongo unless I’m going to snatch cr tech