This man has a good Gouken. Don’t sleep.
Another situation with the backthrow setup aka. “The Man Handle Technique” from here on out. If they like to crouch tech after you Man Handle them and you know the cr. Lk is coming, you instantly low kongo. Its alittle risky but the benefits are marvelous and I have more to come. All opinions are appreciated.
Indeed and thats level 2 of The Man Handle Technique. If they dp out of despiration, you would ex demon the dp and dive kick on their recovery and bring the pain. Its so Lovely!!!
That’s too risky for me.
I just don’t want to put myself in a situation where I give up a minimum 145 damage and then basically put myself into a guessing game.
I’m going to have to make a choice (EX flip, kongo, throw, block, meaty) and hope the other guy makes the choice that loses to mine.
DP beats throw, meaty, and kongo. Block ties with block, beats kongo, EX flip, and meaty. Late tech will beat throw, meaty, and block…
Worse, depending on the opponent, something like trying to bait a DP with EX flip can lead to a damage swing of over 500 damage if you get FADC Ultraed (the damage you gave up plus the damage they get).
I just feel like against someone who is on point you are taking more risks than they are trying to do this. Sure it could pay off but it’s not a “long term” strategy. i.e. It wouldn’t be something you would want to do in a FT10.
This is why it is so easy to beat command grab happy people with Gouken. Hold up and if they are command grab happy you are going to escape a throw at some point and do 450 damage with one bar. That makes back two command throws and then some.
Anyway, since I’m being a downer, I just thought I’d throw in this reset for you guys. EX palm in the corner, HP fireball, dash forward cl.st.hk, dash forward again to go behind. Tight but it worked on Ryu. Was just messing around with it last night so didn’t test on everyone.
I fully understand what you are saying and it is more risk involved. But its more to it than just throwing fireball and safe jumping. Think about this, the back throw is a mix up tool for mid screen when you don’t have them in the corner. Everybody says the he is powerful in the corner but that’s not all. He is a Master and by being that, you have to go beyond your limits, beyond your fears, and not having any doubts about what you trying to do. I’m not saying that this will work on everybody but how are we going to get any kind of upper hand or to strike fear in our opponents? If there used to the fireballs, what is plan B if they got the life lead or what if there was a grappler that had the lead and fireballs and demon flips is not working? I would use reverse psychology and walking up or position myself to bluntly throw them because they are not used to that. I’m not disagreeing with you but from my experience, its been working for me. You got your conservative type and you got your high rollers and I mean risk takers and some in between. I just don’t want to lose and have full or some meter and not take any chances.
Ok 1 motivational zen talking Gouken player is about all I can take. Let’s not do this again.
Having full meter isn’t so bad. I reversaled a DeeJay c.hk the other day for the win using my super 
I’m continuously surprised at what Super can punish.
As for throwing grapplers, this is my number one thing to do. You have to do this so that they start pushing buttons instead of just bulldogging, this way you can actually whiff punish their normals and play footsies instead of just walking backwards.
I agree with taking risks, I just don’t agree with doing it off of backthrow where a damage swing can be like whaaaaat. If it is working for you though, more power to you. I applaud you if you can make reads on people to that extent and I wish I could as well, but I can’t.
real quick.
Dont punish Dan U2 with your own U2. The tumbling animation Dan has makes U2 whiff.
Nope: You did it too early: Wait bit, see when he tumbles and hit him when he poses.
I did this more than a few times.
k.
In Gouken mirrors, is cr lk a proper punish against palms?
punishing palms is interesting. A good gouken will not throw out a random palm unless he is at a distance where it is highly likely to be safe or near-safe on block.
what this means is that the palm throwing gouken will see what poke you like to do for punish and throw a kongo. This means that you probably want to throw different punish pokes out to make him afraid to kongo. of course, rather than poke you can try kara throw against a kongo-happy or blocking gouken. overhead is also a nice one as the startup is usually long enough to wait-out a kongo and you hit them on recovery.
That said, when it’s clearly an easy punish, kara-throw or cr.lk to hk.tatsu are good choices.
I hardly ever punish with cr.lk against anything. It doesn’t have enough block stun. I use it as a shitty version of the Ryu cr.mk for zoning and to get under attacks like Hakan’s wake up dive. It is great if you FADC a hado after cr.hp. Dash in and cr.lk xx hk tatsu.
Against blocked palms: Focus attack/kara grab/st.mp xx hado or palm if the mp connects/overhead/lp.palm if they are close/ if you predicted the palm you can just ex tatsu before they hit you. You could also try diagonal jump command divekick(down+mk) to grab. I’m starting to use this move a little more to stay unpredictable. I like how it changes your jump arc.
Gouken is -6 on MP and HP palm, -5 on EX palm, and -4 on LP palm.
Distance can play a role in how safe a palm is.
c.lk is 5 frames.
I must have hit some people with a reversal ex tatsu (7 frame startup…I wish it were 4) out of pressing buttons or trying to jump away then. Never mind that as a punish. I have to erase that from the memory banks.
Yea, I was trying it in the lab. Shit is hard to do.
you have to anticipate the last hit being completed AND have your inputs finished just as there last hit starts, definitely a low probability type situation esp online
As an addendum:
LP Palm can never be better than -1(though I think it’s only possible to get it that as a meaty or with peculiar hitbox shenanigans)
MP and HP palm can never be better than -3 (so srks, chun, dud and ryu super and our new super can always punish it)
EX Palm will always be -5 if both hits connected on block(barring peculiar hotboxes)
EX palm on 2nd hit whiff is most likely -19 to -16 if the blockstun on both hits is the same(I’ve never tested actually)
If you get only the 2nd hit to connect it may potentially get to -2
An interesting 6-way mix up i recently started using mainly against chars with shitty reversals(rog, cody, sim, bison w/o bar, rose and so on):
After sweep:
- jab for timing into sj. Mk/hp/hk
- jab into df grab
- df dive kick
- df parry into meaty/throw
-jab into empty jump throw - jab into empty jump cr. Lk , lp Palm
Can u guys help me buid more options?
Though it’s pretty tough to do, you can space the palm out where the tip hit’s and EX/HP Srks whiff or get blocked.
I messed around with it for a couple of minutes and tagged him with Gouken’s HP Super everytime, but I was able to block Ken’s HP Super. I’m pretty sure Ryu’s HP Super with Tag him too.
This is the spacing that I used, it can be safe from Srk’s but not so much for supers.
[media=youtube]Fh8bvqwkSW0[/media]
It’s probably safe from this too but can you test it vs. reversal tatsu?