Kyo Strategies and Match ups

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

Since most strategies and tricks are matchup-dependent, it makes sense to group the two together. Discuss anything useful in actual matches here, from specific tactics, to character-dependent move counters, to overall gameplans. The more specific you get, the better. It would be greatly appreciated if you took the time to test out everything you plan on saying in training mode to make sure that it works and to provide some numbers for stuff like damage and dizzy amount.

Other than that, try not to piss anyone off or start any flame wars.

2

Does c.mk work?

3

How does he do against Yama? I hate that match up … Yama zones me for free. :frowning:

4

Q’s about the Vega match-up:

I know that Kyo needs (Or should) stay in the opponents face to get the most out of his game… But it is very difficult to establish this range against a good Vega player… One thing I am wondering is how to deal with playing at the range of his low strong trying to get in?? I have found that at that range a low jump fierce stuffs most of his anti air options from that range (Low fierce and stand roundhouse) not sure about the slide though… But just relying on just that will only get you so far…

I guess what I am trying to get at is what do you do to try to get into that range? Any bait tactics to look for or do? What is the attack you should look out for and what attack you should be ready to use? Or maybe what is the general idea you should be thinking about?

Side Note: I just saw a vid of A-Kyo vs. A-Bison and he blocked a one hit scissor (From a crouch position) and he hit him back with stand strong into combo… I am sure it looked like he was in the recovery of the kicks but then again it is hard to judge on vids… Can anyone confirm this?? I thought they were unpunishable by Kyo or at the very least highly difficult…

Thanks in advance for any replies

5

More Uses For Kyo’s Moves:

-rdp+k:
This move is actually really useful defensively. It’s off the ground on the first frame, meaning it can’t be thrown and will go over low shorts and stuff. If he gets hit out of it on the way up, he was airborne and nothing particularly threatening happens. Use it as a safe® way to get out of throw/low short mix ups rather than DPing.

Another use is after a low jump attack done too high. Let’s say you low jump fierce early on Sagat. Sagat blocks and is most likely going to hit you for free when you land with a low short combo. You cancel your low jump recovery into the rdp+k, which again is off the ground on the first frame. It goes over Sagat’s low short and kicks him in the head, getting you the knockdown and mix up.

-fierce rekkas:
aside from their obvious use in combos or RCs, they also do a grip of chip damage and guard bar in a pinch. The whole string does 400 points of chip damage, well more than enough to chip anybody to death without having to worry about the feared “magic pixel”. In fact, you can safely chip somebody to death that has about 2 pixels of life left for free with this.

The fierce rekkas also does FAR more guard bar damage than a DP, making it so Kyo can guard break somebody whose guard bar isn’t even flashing yet, and also from at around his low strong range (as opposed to having to be point blank like with DP guard breaks).

-qcf+short, short:
Believe it or not, if the second kick is blocked Kyo is not only safe, but has a fairly hefty frame advantage afterwards. You can use it to get in from more than half-screen away on those pesky players who like to jiggle and wait for whiffs, since they’ll walk back and block it standing. However, most characters that are shorter than Sagat can crouch the 2nd hit and put the hurt on Kyo. Seem risky? Yeah, it does to me too. I saw Makoto getting away with it a LOT though. It also seems fairly abusable against Sagat-height characters.

-standing forward:
While it might be fairly meh as a regular anti-air, it works surprisingly well as an anti-cross up, covering Kyo’s weak area directly above his head very well.

-low fierce:
another anti-air that is lackluster but works surprisingly well in a given situation. This move works well on low jumps, cleanly beating even Vega’s low jump roundhouse (!). It did trade at times, but I don’t think I ever saw it get cleanly beat.

6

Good shit. :smiley:

7

I recently started playing against Yama players, and at first I had a hell of a lotta trouble. I think it’s a fairly bad matchup but here are a few things I learned though…

  1. If he has a lvl 2 or 3 super on hand, and he use j.lk or lj.lk, jump back or low jump up after the block. At worst, you’ll eat a snake arm, but there’s a good chance that his throw super is coming.

  2. Once you get the knockdown, do not let up. If they’re going to get out, they’re going to use a super, so u can try to bait it out. However, if instead they use s.hp xx sand xx saa to get out, it’s gonna be a lotta work to get in again.

  3. Know the range of s.hk, it’s probably his easiest move to punish. So far, the best punisher I hav is s.hk xx lvl 3 cloud but if someone knows a better one, please post.

The whole match will be a lot of baiting and punishing big whiffs. I try to bait a s.hk and super jump in for the cross up if possible, but it’s hard. I generally jump a lot the match too, since it’s not too hard to jd his snake arms (hear saaa tap back in air). If anybody has any more advice, I’d like them :slight_smile:

8

Yeah, a good basic strategy is to stay as close as possible and make him screw up somehow. It can be really hard to get in, but I’m even more afraid when he comes looking for me! It’s sooo easy to hit with his supers, definitely a scary opponent.

Kyo, however, can cleanly stuff both his supers if he tries to wake up with them. If you bait out a wake up level 3, just do a level 3 wave super to stuff it. If he Guillotines, he’ll jump right into the fire, and if he Drills, well you can’t be grabbed out of a level 3 so he gets burned in that case too.

9

I don’t think it’s safe to try to punish a wakeup level 3 w/ a level 3 cloud super, unless your opponent is SUPER predictable. If you made a mistake, and they didn’t do it, it’s a free combo into super for them.

Question about Sagat. My general strategy is to run in and mix him up to death but a few problems I run into. First, his high tiger shot usually stops me dead in my tracks cuz it’s hard to low jump over since I’m usually running. If I jab into just defend or duck, i’m not getting any closer. If I jump or super jump, i’m eating a tiger uppercut. When I finally almost get to attacking distance, c.hp comes out and makes it hard for me to attack to. I can guess a lot what attacks are coming out but sometimes I get outwitted and eat tiger uppercut and way too many c.hp’s. Any tips on getting in/counters for his c.hp?

10

Kyo vs Blanka

I find that fighting Blanka can be extremely difficult. I find it very hard to get in on Blanka mainly because of his reach. It’s very hard for my Kyo to create situations where I can capitalize. Whenever Kyo tries to get in on Blanka, Blanka rebuttles with a nasty c.hp :mad:

You guys got any tips for me cuz I’m stuck when it comes to a nicely played Blanka.

Random things I have figured out:

  • After a blocked blanka ball, do: qcf mp, qcf mp, k. This is (from what I’ve experimented on) the only way that Kyo can hurt Blanka over a blocked blanka ball.

  • Kyo’s down forward+kick doesn’t seems quite reliable on getting in on Blanka when he’s just sitting their for time to run out.

11

kcxj/kamui, can either of you give some data on far/close s.HP? i’ve been trying it out as anti-air from far instead of s.MK. it seems to hit really meaty.

12

Vs. Guile

Here’s some random crap I found out the other day. After a JD’ed Sonic Boom, try putting out a c.MK. It’ll either totally stuff Guile’s s.HK or trade with his c.MK. I’ve gotten Kyo’s c.MK to stuff Guile’s c.MK a few times, but it has to be really fast.

13

Play footsies with him and stay JUST outside the range of his c.HP. Once you see it stick out, counter it with Kyo’s s.HK. Watch out for his slide though. Low-jump HP/HK snuff out any attempt of Blanka hitting you with his c.HP because of its start up.

14

I’ve read several threads that talk about p-kyo being a mid/top tier character, but I haven’t figured out what makes him so good in p-groove? I know he has a bunch of offensive attacks that get people dizzy, and a lot of mind games set up…but still…

Anyone?

15

The main reason Kyo is good in P is because he has really damaging normal combos, and add that to that fact that each combo can send you to the corner to be pressured, he becomes pretty scary with parry. Also he has lowjump, and you’re almost forced to just bock his c.shorts once the p player starts option select down parrying them.

16

do you have any specific examples of why kyo is so good in p? 'cause his “really damaging normal combos” and lowjump is also available in other grooves. and about option selecting…what specifically makes HIM so good, 'cause anyone in p has it. other characters in p have damaging combos after parrying like iori’s rekkas, or ken’s face kick, or yamazaki’s chian attacks, but that doesn’t make them mid/top tier.

17

Iori needs rc, and Yama is better in other grooves Ioris Rekka combos barely do like any stun, and Yama’s BNB doesn’t knock down, AND is punsihable by fast supers. I just told you, for Kyo Parries lead into HUGE damage (parry, c.mp, mk juggle kicks, dp HK) youre in the corner now, and lost 1/4 life, and you’re about 1/2 stunned, Yamazaki and Iori can’t do that. And yeah kyo has low jump in other grooves, but he doesnt need the other things that come with them (he doesnt need like anything in N groove but Low jump, s-kyo sucks(and don’t tell me omg he doesn’t because he does))K and P just really suit Kyo.

18

ookayy…

19

kyo’s best grooves are definitely P/K,A,C,N/S

because:

a) all his combos start with either light attacks (bnb, linked into MP xx rekkas) or an up close attack (big punish, linked into launching kicks), neither are practical to finish with a level 1 super (qcf,qcf+P has shitty range, less damage than a launching kicks juggle, and lvl1 qcb,hcf+P won’t combo off any of his starters).

b) launching kicks -> flame super from anywhere on the screen does more damage than any combo into qcf,qcf+P (no matter what level), and at midscreen, kyo has huge damage combos off of launching kicks (launching kicks -> dp+MK -> flame super -> otg hit)

so… level 1 supers are useless for kyo, his alpha counter is unsafe, his roll is too shitty to punish anything. P/K is definitely his best, he’s good with dash OR run, low jump is butter for him, and A and C grooves are just worth mention for their huge damage potential.

but i’m just a scrub, don’t listen to me.

edit: oops for asking again on s.HP… that seems good anyway, it seems to work like bison’s AA s.HP

i would guess now that c.HP is 4 frames, it seems as easy to link as a MP after c.LK/c.LP/c.MP… how’s c.LK, c.LP, c.HP xx MP/HP rekkas sound for practicality, c.HP has more range than c.MP but less than far s.MP from my testing

20

I have trouble dealing with Zangief.
Playing A-Kyo against RC C-Zangief.
The guy’s played against my Kyo long enough to know what his mixups are, and almost all of them can be punished by the SPD in my experience. I’m almost always forced to play footsies against Gief, unless I land a good d.LK leading to a custom