Korean arcade parts discussion

Tech Talk
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I figured this would be the place to ask.

I’ve seen a lot of discussion on Korean joysticks and they seem like the kind of thing I’d want, so I was thinking about putting a Crown CWJ-303A on a Qanba Q4. That would work right? From my understanding the 303A is meant to fit in place of a japanese joystick with a korean feel.

While browsing etokki to find one I came across korean buttons of many makes. How does the feel of korean buttons compare to sanwa? Also, which if any of the korean buttons would easily be slotted in place of the sanwa buttons on the aforementioned Q4?

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Korean buttons are 27.5mm, snap-in korean buttons are not an option in a Japanese Arcade stick.
You might be able to get screw in buttons to work, but they will not be a great fit.

Korean buttons are stiffer than Sanwa buttons, but then again everything else is stiffer than Sanwas.

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Airbag Fanta that IST has is Myoungshin with Matsushita switches. Personally pretty light to trigger switches unlike a default Myoungshin. I have the wooden stick and spent too much just to find out about the Airbag isnt the true real deal. At least I have a spare PS2 stick.

That site doesn’t ship overseas if I recall correctly and doesn’t have PayPal if you were gonna use that. Apparently IST has another site that’s for international selling but they don’t have the PlayStation 4 Makestick Pro, MDF stick or the PCBs. The site doesn’t seem to be fully complete either.

The CWJ-303A/FK should work fine on a Q4. The buttons, I am assuming the CWB-203A, feels sort of loose but has some give into it than Sanwa.

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So would CWB-203As slot easily in without any need to modify the case? I’m new to this arcade stick thing and don’t want to have to mess with that too much.

Speaking of more in-depth modifications, if in the future I wanted to use a Myongshin Fanta with a Q4/Fusion, is that at all possible and what sort of changes would I have to accommodate for?

Thanks for the help.

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@Nynten Unfortunately, crown buttons aren’t an option if your stick has 30mm holes, the standard for Japanese sticks. Crown buttons are a tiny bit smaller, but small enough that they wouldn’t stay in place.

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Previous crown buttons yes…but the new ones that are coming out have a lugnut bolt feature that can secure buttons in a 30mm hole now…I’m just waiting for paradise arcade shop to get them in…which should be soon.

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@“The Phantomnaut” Thank you very much for the information. I wish I would have known earlier. I was feeling kind of desperate for a korean stick, said screw it and bought the IST MDF stick off of Ebay. I tried to ask for the parts, but the reply was in broken English so we will see what happens. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-PS3-Joystick-Pro-game-KOF-ARCADE-CONTROLLER-USB-ACTION-TEKKEN-ACTION-GAME-/181524182280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a43af3508 @slaycruz Are the new crown buttons exactly the same as the 203C but with pins now instead of having to solder the buttons on? I am having a hard time looking up info on the new buttons as I am really interesting in trying them out. I have only seen that video of someone installing it and that is about it. He didn’t even plug in the QDs.

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https://youtu.be/uuRCzKm5Ego
Here’s a video of them being tested…the model number is 207-H…and from what I have read they will have qd’s

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I’ve been toying around with the Crown CWL-307F-J-W and the Fanta Crown Upgrade Kit stocked by FocusAttack for the past few week and comparing/contrasting the lot with a Crown 303-FK I’ve had collecting dust. I unfortunately no longer own any Korean sticks proper, so I’m only comparing these three parts against each other and to my distant memories of playing on a Myoungshin Fanta for a few months about a year or two back.

Comparing the rubber
All the grommets I own have had less than 2 weeks of wear on them played more or less equally every day for about 40 minutes to an hour apiece. I unfortunately don’t have access to any tools that can test the rubber’s hardness or how much force it requires to move the joystick in a given direction, so I’m entirely guessing based on feel. From my time with them, the 307’s rubber has the highest tension among the three with the 303’s coming in second, and the Fanta upgrade kit as a close third.

I’m not sure why the Fanta kit’s rubber is so much more lax than the stock 303 or the 307’s. I was expecting the rubber to provide more tension than at least the 303 as I distinctly remember the 303 having far less tension than the Myoungshin I owned in the past. This might be my memory failing me. Regardless, the low amount of tension from the Fanta kit doesn’t feel that great, especially when installed in the 307’s body than in the 303’s. I’d rather use the stock 303 rubber or, preferably, the 307’s. Unless you specifically desire less tension in your joystick, I’d steer away from buying the rubber grommet from the Fanta upgrade kit.

Comparing the microswitches
The three microswitches I had a chance to play with were the Gersung GSM V0323A3 which came stock with my 303-FK, the Gersung GSM V1623A2 which comes with the Fanta Crown Upgrade Kit, and a set of Matsushita AM51630C69N switches that come stock with the CWL-307F-J-W. Testing the three switches against one another, the hardest switches were the GSM V0323A3, followed by the Matsushita switches, and then followed by the Fanta Kit GSM V1623A2 switches.

I tested the resistance of the three switches relative to one another by pressing the microswitch levers against each other and pushing until one of the two switches gave way. In doing so, I found that the Gersung GSM V0323A3 were by far the hardest of the three as it required far more force to depress than the other two. The Matsushita switches and the GSM V1623A2 switches feel like they are of comparable resistance, with the Gersungs caving in just slightly sooner than the Matsushitas.

Mix and matching parts
I tried out every possible combination of microswitch, rubber, and joystick body I had, giving each permutation a full 2 hour session of play apiece across about 5 days of playtime. Regarding rubber, the 307 rubber felt the best in both stick bodies and with all microswitch types, with the 303 coming second and the Fanta kit rubber being less than ideal. I believe a lot of Korean joystick users will agree that generally, higher tension feels better compared to lower tension.

Using the 303 body, the biggest improvement came from just swapping the Gersungs for the Matsushita switches. I believe the 303-FK units that come with the Mad Catz KE sticks and the ones that Laugh at eTokki sold all came stock with Matsushita switches as well. Even without swapping around the rubber grommets, this helped a lot with the feel of the 303 and helped a lot with punching clean corners. Unlike with both sets of Gersungs, you don’t need to push the lever all the way to the gate in order to activate the diagonals. The Matsushitas, if not activating sooner, at least improve the range of the diagonals.

With the 307 body, I actually preferred the Gersungs in there, specifically the Gersung GSM V1623A2 switches that come with the Fanta upgrade kit. I don’t know why, but the lower tension of the switch and the larger activation deadzone it has compared to the Matsushita make the 307 feel a lot better. One of the issues I have with the stock 307 is that perhaps because of the enlarged actuator, the activation distance for any given direction is tiny compared to how much I’m used to moving my arm for wavedashing or backdash cancelling in Tekken. I’m obviously guessing here, but to me, the Gersung switches made the 307 feel better.

Final thoughts
Playing around with all of this stuff, I’ve come to two conclusions: One, the 303-FK with Matsushita switches and the 307 rubber felt the closest to a Myoungshin that I could get with the parts I had on-hand. It also felt the best out of the combinations I’ve tried, moreso than any of the combinations I had with the 307. However, I think with the 307, it’s probably a matter of getting used to the stick itself. It feels way different from the 303 or a Myoungshin, so maybe I just need to put in some more time and get adjusted.

This is all just my two cents on the matter. I hope some people with more Korean stick experience can chime in on these parts.

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thanks for reviewing our product.
it is difficult sometimes to determined hardness of a rubber without tools, so this is the current test result using durometer shore A (hardness tester for rubber). this will give most objective data to compare, and you can test it yourself by investing on cheap durometer from ebay.
ebay.com/itm/Practical-Dia-Shore-Type-A-Hardness-Rubber-Tester-Tire-Tyre-Meter-Durometer-Test-/141250852613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e334f705

[IMG]http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/wazwuz/Screenshot_2015-05-26-08-38-22_zps0h5fuu0t.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/wazwuz/Screenshot_2015-05-26-08-41-00_zpsbbos78vk.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/wazwuz/Screenshot_2015-05-26-08-40-02_zpse8rkulyq.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/wazwuz/Screenshot_2015-05-26-08-44-32_zpsjmywqjty.jpg[/img]

[IMG]http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/wazwuz/Screenshot_2015-05-26-08-43-05_zpsapm0qvfu.jpg[/img]

but 40 vs 60 is pretty big difference, and the difference is noticeable without tools. maybe ikagi get harder rubber in his 303 or get defect product from my productions. I have QC every batch by myself, but who knows maybe it slipped away from me

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Thanks for the insight, wazwuz. I’ll add that aside from having less tension than the other two grommets, the Fanta Upgrade Kit grommet I own is otherwise perfectly fine. All the directions have a consistent feel and there is more than enough tension there to center the stick properly. And like all the other rubber grommets, there is little to no deflection to the opposing side when you pull the lever to a given side and let it go. It’s still nice to have a softer tension option for people without buff forearms, but here’s to hoping that mine was just a single bad apple out of the bunch.

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I recently purchased a Joytron EXchanger from a seller on Ebay.

I was having a tough time finding the IST MakeStick Pro on ebay, so I asked the seller if they could list it. The link is below if anyone is interested.

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does anyone know how long the tension on the grommets last? I’ve been using a 2lb spring on my Hayabusa but it’s staring to loose it’s tension only after a few months. I’m thinking of switching to Korean Joysticks to avoid this.

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I’m not sure I could quantify it, as I’ve had several multiple month long stints of not using my Myoungshin Fanta joystick (which is my primary), however I can with confidence say that the grommets have a longer life span than any spring loaded Japanese joystick. In the sense that they don’t change too much too quickly. You’re talking at least 6-10 months of use before you begin to feel a ‘softening’–begin. And the ‘harder’ grommet you start out with, the longer this will take; in the sense that of when you begin to take notice of a notable ‘softening’, almost exponentially longer. I played on a Taeyoung Fanta (which has a ‘hard’ grommet tension) for over 8 months and felt nearly no deviation from day 1; I ultimately gave up on that stick/grommet & it’s sitting in a drawer now because of it. It’s just far too resistant for my liking. I really don’t know how those OG TTT players could perform at the level they did at Green Arcade on Taeyoungs back in the day. Perhaps like Green Arcade does today, with the modifying of Fantas (that I only learned thanks to this very thread) & all. Perhaps this is a long standing tradition?

I will share with you what I wish someone shared with me when I first got into Korean sticks, though there were far fewer options when I first got into them, which is… to try multiple combinations of K sticks, with varying rubber (or silicone) grommets where applicable, & varying levered switches where applicable. Also, when it comes to the aspect of testing levered switches, don’t just ping pong from a popular Korean brand of switch to a popular Japanese brand of switch. What you want to do is find switches of varying gram force of operation (e.g. 100gf, 200gf, 300gf etc.), when you find your seemingly ideal, it is then may you want to choose to try different manufacturer brands of that same resistance of a switch. This could result in different tab heights and alternatively angled levers, albeit subtle changes, you can test & learn what works better for you within the subtlety.

And when it comes to the grommet side of things, I personally subscribe to wazwuz’ philosophy, which is that you want the lion’s share of your resistance coming from grommet, and not your switches. Not everyone will agree, but in my experience I think this is where you want the heavy lifting to be done; from the grommet. But you can run into issues when you are sharing that weight 50/50. For example, the stock Taeyoung suffered from this, in that it had a ‘hard’ tension grommet in combination with Gersung ‘A3’ switches, which are 300 gram force switches for the uninitiated. This results in a wildly stiff joystick. I mean… it’ll return so quickly to neutral that it’ll make your head spin, but you have to ask yourself if suffering in just about every other aspect of a joystick, is worth it to you. Ultimately it’s up to you as to what combination of what grommets, with what switches, on what stick, works for you, but rest assured that when you finally do arrive on your chosen combination, that it’s not going to lose resistance (at least by fault of the grommet) in a few months time.

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@Antonio-o-o thanks man. That was really helpful!

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Ohh, haha, good… I’m glad that rambling was of use. And I think somewhere along the way of writing that post, I kind of lost track of my paramount point, which was to share that you’d want to find the quality & tension of the Fanta you’d wish to use, from day 1. Honestly, I can’t stress that enough–day 1. By that, I’m saying don’t find a K stick that hit’s all of your major & minor points, but is juuuusssst a bit too ‘tight’, with the assumption that it’ll loosen over the months of playing, because it won’t, certainly not in the sense that you’re used to. This may ring true for a Japanese stick that rely solely on springs, but try not to readopt that philosophy here.

So in the beginning, I suggest that whatever K stick you start with, that you now consider that your baseline. Now… if you want lower resistance from this baseline… you replace the switches with that of a lower ‘gram force’, and if you want a higher resistance, you replace the grommet (where applicable) with that of greater hardness (with a now granted option to in combination replace the switches with that of a higher ‘gf’ operation as well), or even start anew with a different model of K stick (as no two K sticks are alike) when those variations are exhausted. It sounds like that process can get pricey, and it can, but you can purchase a new set of switches & additional grommet for <$20, and for that $20 you’ll have a Fanta that now behaves on this almost diametric spectrum of responsiveness than previous. Alternatively, if you wish opt for a lower resistance, you can choose to simply opt for a softer grommet, but to stay in line with my aforementioned point, it’s that you want to keep your grommet’s relative tension above that of the switches, I can’t really advise this.

Okay… to drive the point home, don’t expect a Fanta to break in with any notable resulting change within the first 6 months. It is better to hone in on that preferred ideal from day one. This also makes your life easier when replacing components down the line as well. As once whatever component of your rig is replaced (actuator, switches, grommet etc.), you’ll be back to exactly where you were on day 1 (…that’s what you want). This is opposed to the alternative, which is replacing said component and then saying to yourself* “okay welp… after a short 9 month break in period we’ll be in business!”*. So yeah, because of this point, your ‘break in’ period being negligible, you’ll have a joystick with a much longer lifespan than that of most traditional Japanese stick, so it’s just good form the get go to pick out that right bowl of porridge.

Oh, and since I’ve lightly hit upon the the lifespan of a Fanta, in terms of replacing ‘worn out’ components, we might as cover that here as well. In order or frequency of replacing, it’s likely going to be the switches, grommet, and then actuator… respectively. Your switches will certainly degrade far, far before the other two; though a simple rotation or rearrangement of the switches can prolong the lifespan (as with any joystick). But it’ll be up to years even, before you feel the need to replace the rubber grommet. And the frequency will be less & less frequent with the greater hardness of a grommet you begin with, as the softer the rubber, the more exponentially rapidly, does the rubber further soften (as I’ve stated in my earlier post), though still a very steady & slow process.

The other thing about this longer, slower curve of… we’ll call it deviation, or even degradation(?), from day 1, is that the change is ever so gradual, that it doesn’t require any adjustment on your part. You’re not going to fire it up one evening and it all of sudden feels off from the evening before. That’s just not going to happen. With Korean sticks, you ‘evolve’, for lack of a better word, with the joystick so gradually, that no behavior of the joystick will come as a surprise.

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^whenever someone asks me what makes a korean lever different i always refer to the term “organic”, exactly because of reasons you pointed out

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Question for anyone, though wazwuz is who I have in mind: when replacing the grommet in a Crown 303-FK with a harder one, can the spring be discarded, or should it be kept? Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, been out of the loop for a while.

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this might help

http://www.gersung.com/english/image/product/py01.gif

stumbled upon this as I was looking for gersung microsw info.

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good question. yes you can discarded the spring (especially if you use stock switches). I have try this setup since I run out of omron switches and have to use the stock switches. and I like it (personal preferences)
the point is, you should try any possible variations/setup to find out which one you like the best. because every player have different preferences.