Just spreading info from this: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1908.msg53946#msg53946
Very interesting list. Almost a totally results-based tier list. Skewed probably a bit too much based on character popularity, but it’s the best starting point for a conventional tier list I’ve seen. The only glaring things I would change is moving Beni up to 2nd tier at least, and swap Billy and Leona.
Ah! If this were the case, EX Iori would probably be on my team for sure. Ratio 0 and 1 have viable characters - I would probably run Athena and then the member would be someone like Ash, Mature, or Elizabeth. (The truth is, I have not yet tested Mr. Karate… and I’ve been wanting to for the longest time) Maxima would be able to dish out lots of damage along with his autoguard but the player would have to be really careful of zoners and his speed!
Every character has some nice tools to work with - Ratio 2 and 3 have comfortable characters.
… This lists seems to be okay… but, we’ll just have to wait and see what happens next. Thanks for posting. I wonder what others would do if they were in this scenario.
I’m running Robert, Terry, Takuma (in this order), so I don’t really care lol.
The thing is, in the game, even the ratio 0 can be EXTREMELY dangerous.
Damn my thread took off in views. Haha
Man, this game is the shit.
Oh yeah!
Hey, if you were to make a tier list, how would you categorize the characters? Who are your main characters?
And… Eventhubs just posted a tier list yesterday. Personally, I still think it is far too early for a tier list and I don’t really trust Eventhubs that much for obvious reasons. Link: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/may/22/tiers-king-fighters-13-eventhubs-community/
This should provide people with some more materials. This is probably going to be really hard to actually come up with a tier list for a game such as this.
Well, some new Mai footage from the last Nishinippori event. Scary.
[media=youtube]u2povwB9MaA[/media]
Why Mr. Karate is considered top tier is quite obvious, now. So many options and lots of damaging moves… and sweet command throw. The person playing as Kim between 10:31 to 11:44 was nice! (KOF XIII is one of the most juggle-friendly KOF games ever - the Mr. Karate/Mai/Beni and the Kim player summarize why I love that HD meter so much).
That Mai is something else… she has some of the best normal of the game. So much priority. She works a lot like Kusanagi did in KOF2K2UM - her normal attacks not to be toyed with!
… Although, Mai has no reversal options (unless she has meters), she does not do much damage from mid-screen, and her high jump arcs are annoying because they leave open to AA’s… Otherwise, she is a fun… useful… and tricky character to use. Nice priority in most of her normals, one of the best Neo Max’s in the game, good for spacing, her short jumps bypass projectiles (except Mature’s for obvious reasons), she can cross-up after a throw, and she is deadly when her opponent is driven to a corner (which is pretty much guaranteed to piss A LOT of players off on ranked matches).
What are some reason mr. Karate is considered better than ex iori?
Are you referring to event-hubs or another tier list…? I don’t normally play as either one of the characters but, I can give you insight on their arsenal for you to review and interpret.
.[SIZE=4]… This might be subjective. Mr. Karate is a… "Rush-down pressure king"so to speak, much to the likes of Mature, Andy, or Duo Lon. Iori simply has all recessionary tools for every situation and is particularly combo-friendly. [/SIZE]
Iori can be played in quite a few ways, while Mr. Karate excels in rushing the opponent down and destroying them. Mr. Karate is able to conduct a guard crush with his EX Ko’ ou Ken but has a ridiculous start up and requires players to do this preemptively. Mr. Karate can shorten his recovery time of his C Kohou (anti-air), and continue with his assault once more or hit the opponents into a reset to do a mix-up after they have touched the ground. C Kohou has NO invincibility start-up but the A version does… Also, Mr. Karate can counter against a lot of moves too with his Hakokujin. The regular version of this move will cause him to dash forward to continue his rush-down (this is only for high/mid attacks however). EX will cause him to do a lot of different things depending on what kind of attack
EX Iori… first of all, his command move, the F+A > A move, is slower, but is still easy to use in a combo after getting used to it (which I have not yet, due to using Claw Iori for so long). Iori projectile use leave very open but both of his versions are quick. Mr. Karate’s projectile travels about half the screen (you can not see it), but has less recovery time than the former. It is possible to hit low meaty’s or crouch low’s with Iori’s anti-air. Iori’s rekka series has a wicked start-up animation so it is best to use this in a combo, rather then the move itself (unless the opponent is a recovery animation sequence or if the opponent enjoys hopping). After the third rekka hit, it is a hard known down, and the player can OTG the opponent in the corner with Iori EX Koto Tsuki. The second hit of the EX rekka knocks the opponent higher… so there are many possibilities after this second hit.
Both Iori and Mr. Karate have command throws. EX Iori’s Neo Max is a unblockable auto-grab, but it is EXTREMELY easy to react to (hell, you can even DP him out of the move)! Mr. Karate appears to build meter a little more too…
TBH, EX Iori does really well against Mr. K. IMO, the matchup is 5-5 because as of now, iori is the only character that I have seen with my own eyes that can really slug with him. Mr.K can’t dp rekka safejump setup so Iori can get down and dirty with Mr.K. Go watch Xaoihai vs Tokido from SS and see what I mean.
I saw it, sick ass match. I wanted xiaohai to win, screw tokido.
Mr. Karates is too beast, the only reason I don’t use him is cause just doesent look cool in general. Lol
Ex iori, Elizabeth, Kyo or Yuri all day everyday baby.
Updated my personal tier list:
AAA+++: Mr. Karate, Hwa Jai
A+: Both Ioris, Both Kyos, Benimaru, Yuri, Takuma, Billy
A: Shen Woo, Vice, Saiki, King, K’, Kim
A-: Andy, Kensou, Kula, Duolon, Mature, Ralf, Clark, Liz, Ryo
B+: Raiden, Joe, Leona, Daimon, Chin
B: Terry, Ash, Robert, Athena, Maxima, Mai
Just my personal opinion based on my experiences in Socal.
This game… it is really, REALLY hard to solidify these tiers… one is because, players come up with so many unique ideas for each of them. This could really be THE balanced game of this time…
I’m going to post a personal list based on my analysis
S; [SIZE=4]Beni, Yuri, EX Karate, EX Kyo, Regular Kyo, Claw Iori[/SIZE]
[FONT=times new roman]A+: King, Hwa, K’, Shen, Billy, EX Iori [/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman]A: Vice, Saiki, Mature, Kim, Betty, [/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman]A-: Daimon, Clark, Mai, Takuma, Duo Lon, Andy, Ryo, Ralf, Kensou, Kula, Athena[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman]B+: Chin, Robert, Raiden, Joe, Ash [/FONT]
B: Terry, Maxima, Leona
And here is a list based on online usage - this is also subjective.
Extremely Common = Robert, Andy, Takuma
Common = King, Regular Kyo, K’, Joe, Terry
Occasional/Inconsistent = Ash, Shen, Clark, Maxima, Kensou, Raiden, Hwa, Kim
Rare = EX Iori, EX Kyo, Yuri, Duo Lon, Betty, Beni, Mai, Athena, Chin, Ralf, Mature, Vice, Claw Iori, Kula, Daimon, Billy, Ryo, Leona, Mr. Karate, Saiki
These have little to do with tiers but I just want to give a heads up on what characters people are using online - granted, these might not be too useful due to net coding and that the majority of these players might not play this competitively. Make sure ya’ll go on practice to figure out the odds and ends of the characters, too… What cancels into what? How do you use this characters technique effectively? What role does this character play on your team? Battery? Meter builder? Anchor? Starter? About the rolling differences? Jumps? Command moves? What happened during the tournaments? What did you experience in the tournaments?
Take a look at davidkong07’s post = he provides evidence of his experience as well as insight on what the characters can do so far. These appear to be one of the more accurate tier lists. However, people here are still conducting research on the said character.
Results
Everyone has a story to tell when it comes to KOF XIII… but, what should we say about KOF XIII Climax? Should we… some how find people who are willing to conduct versus matches somehow to get a little more insight? (Then again… even that might be complicated…)
It’s a fairly balanced game, top tiers differ on who you ask and no character is unusable.
Beni, Kyo, Iori and Mr. Karate are all generally considered to be the “best” characters but there has been a huge variety in terms of placing at tournaments including Hwa, Elizabeth + Billy among others.
I’m quoting you just because I know you will answer.
Tier lists are no doubt useful, but how about this for a change.
Why not “tier” characters in specific orders.
Let’s just say we’re looking at King.
Point: A
Mid: B
Anchor: C
We would specifically be looking at the usefulness of the spot in the order as well as using the tier lists.
It would obviously take into account who needs HD to live and who has the highest damaging DM’s, Neomaxs, Max Cancels, etc…
Thoughts?
I did actually consider something like that but I never really said too much about it.
King?
Point A:
… High Tier? King has a bundle of combo starters. Her j.D cross after a throw is spectacular and King can get some easy BnB’s in as she is able to zone her opponent with Vemon Strike. It is easy to build meter off of King for the second character. The thing is though… King actually NEEDS meter to be effective too. Then again, 3 meters is enough to push the opponent over the edge. HD comboHer EX moves are very useful and her EX Trap Shot is a viable anti-air (and so is her Surprise Rose… and probably her EX Tornado kick if timed correctly - the EX tornado kick DOES have invincibility start up). She can batter the opponent easily with just BnB’s without utilizing too much meter. Her slide is useful and easily cancelled to special moves (unless the opponent guard cancels away from you, the players can get punished), and she can avoid most projectiles this way since her own hit box “shrinks” during the move. She can do a lot with just three meters and she might be one of the more better starters. Her mix-ups and rush down may take some time… her neutral game however is viable. Oh… and King is the second character who can conduct cross up from a throw by rolling pass them.
The thing is, King can rack a serious amount of damage with three gauges… The King player can go either way - save meter or conduct a damaging. She does have a lot of combo opportunities with three stocks and one gauges. She might one of the best starters here.
Second Position:
… High Mid tier. 4 meters and a full HD meter does not sound too bad… but there are other characters that can be placed in battery for a better chance of winning. King needs to watch out for rush down characters in this position and keep her space. Her air D Venom Strike cause her to propel backwards and the air B version makes her move down to the ground. These can both be advantageous for set ups and out zoning the opponent and her Tornado Kick is unsafe - if used up close, but if the opponent guards from a distance, the tip of the move, then she safe so she needs to use this sparingly to keep her distance. Last… King can execute her HD combos here for some extra damage… in this position should save meter for the likes of… Claw Iori anchors? Shen and Leona might be good choices too.
Anchor
… High tier. Again, King functions well with meter and HD combos are blessing - King BnB’s are easy to conduct after you open your opponent up, but she still needs to watch out for Guard Cancel rolls, especially after her slide (that’s IF she does a special move after the fact which would certainly NOT be a good idea). The same rules apply as the point B except… well sense she is the last character - the player SHOULD be about saving meter for EX, Supers, Drive cancels, Super cancels, and HD combos) with whoever their battery is. King can dish out a lot of damage in the corner as well. It easy to just hit confirm into an HD combo… like this one…[corner]c.C> df.D> HD activation> c.C> df.D> hcb+D> (HDC) qcf+BD> [dp+B/D> (HDC) hcb+B]×3> hcb+D> qcfx2+AC = 793 damage.
Things like that. It would be best to take a practical approach to HD combos but we want to maximize our damage as well…!
Good shit all around, now we should somehow get more people to attempt this format of analysis.
By the way isn’t that throw you mentioned above a glitch that only works for player 1? ^
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/System_Guide
Vid from this link.
[media=youtube]TePo-epAmJc[/media]
Go to 6:51 and the guy says only King and Mai have this and that it is potentially a glitch.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it got patched sometime.
I’ll keep going then - Let’s talk about Yuri!
Point A:
… High Tier
Okay. Listen, Yuri normals are viable… but they are extremely short ranged so the player would have to open their opponent up. The player can poke the opponent with c.B, however. Yuri is one of the better meter builders here too. But, to dish out some really good damage, she needs meter - AND, the player is should have a high execution level. Not that it’s mandatory because Yuri CAN get away with more then a few game play style (rush down, turtle, etc.) Yuri has a TON of meterless combo possibilities however: c.B, c.B, c.A, dp.C. or perhaps j.C, s.C, hcb.B (this one equals to about 236 damage and is HELLA easy to drive cancel or super cancel into). Yuri’s demon flip can utilized as a sort of jump cancel. It’s important to keep in mind that Yuri has a very good command throw as well - it is a one frame command throw and it is rather easy to hit confirm into. Lot’s and lot’s of ambiguous cross ups. In this position, Yuri can still play the role like that of a meter builder, but this is not recommended. Though… what should be understood is that her HD combos make her a real problem too, and that is also why she is high tier in this position. Like… this! No super meter spend whatsoever! This should PLEASE a lot of people… (or piss them off)… HD combo!
[SIZE=4][FONT=times new roman]d.B, d.B, s.B [HD] s.C, f+A, (air) qcf+B, [d.C, f+A, (air) qcf+B] x10, d.B, s.B, dp+C. Adds up to a nice 768 damage. [/FONT][/SIZE]
You can just build meter by whiffing the Saiha, her command throw, or whiffing DP (this one not recommended unless you actually hit the opponent). If you don’t want to spend any drive use this one… d.Bx2, s.B, dp+AC for 229 dmg. Costs one super meter…
Second Position:
… High Tier… Seriously! Yuri… is a MONSTER in this position. She is evil and 4 meters and a full HD guage will should already make the opponent paranoid! She is THE perfect battery character. Yuri has a lot of easy drive cancel confirm which is part of the reason why a lot of people recognize her the most in a game such as this. Yuri can also use an air throw - for example: c.D > EX Houyoku > Air throw = Hard knockdown! Yuri can then conduct a hit confirm on the opponents wake up or bait an anti-air (I do this all the time as Yuri has really nice option selects). Yuri’s Hien Hou’ou Kyaku has a fair damage output too. Don’t forget those demon flip pressure. Yuri is NOT safe during the demon flips if the player for some reason choose not to follow up. Her dive kick shortens the jump and is SAFE on guard (but she can be punched out of it though before she does it and the player would have to respect the Guard Cancel roll - a lot of people tend to underestimate its use…). Here, in the second position, you can do whatever you wish - save meter, consume meter and dish out some serious damage, batter your opponent to hell, play defensively, zone them with Saiha (which can be used as a pseudo-anti air if used preemptively), Raikouken, and Ko Ou Ken (a deceivingly large hit box - ONLY THE A version can be comboed into from heavy normals but is NOT SAFE from block, while the C version is, but has a lengthy start up… j.C > s.C > qcf.A. It is possible to combo AFTER her Neo Max too (if you seen her trials, you’ll know what I am implying). The character in the third position can finish whatever Yuri was doing with the meter saved up… or, should she not have meter, Shen or Athena would not be much of a problem.
Anchor:
… Depends. Well, mid tier… This is a bit strange. She can do, more or less, the same thing as she did in her second position, but she has nobody to back her up. She builds meter easily and she does not zap it that quickly, which is why she is perfect for the second position. She is still a beast in this position though, but she fits in a lot better as a battery and she does not need 5 stocks and full drive meter to be super effective. The reason why she is mid-tier in this scenario is because her combos still require a lot of good execution. On the other hand, she can spend the living hell out of meter to the fullest. Her block strings are most short and her normals are also short ranged. One should keep her mix-ups and mid-air resets in mind if they want to be successful. She can keep up with high and low normals and get easy drive cancels and hit confirms if the player is careful. It is really easy to catch people off guard if they respect you too much with hcb.D. Her Haoh Shou Kou Ken super is also good for punish mid-screen and characters using projectiles with high recovery.
Nice.
I feel bad because I have nothing really to contribute, like, I experiment in the lab and all, but I don’t keep all of the notation in my head and just kinda go for whatever HD stuff and max cancels I can feel comfortable with. o_O
Why don’t we look at Duo Lon?
Point:
[SIZE=4]… High tier. According to tournament videos and personal experiences with the said tourneys, Duo Lon is almost ALWAYS going to be in the first position. Duo Lon is a great character all around, but those who played the arcade version should keep in mind that Duo Lon damage out put is decreased a little. Mix-ups, block strings, and rush down is key for all Duo Lon players and it is imperative to understand how to punish others with his teleport (qcf B/D - qcb B/D). Duo Lon can build meter quiet fast and he does not need much meter to work with either. His Neo Max is a ONE FRAME COMMAND THROW worth 448 damage and CAN BE DONE DURING COMBOS! None of his Rekka series combo are safe on guard (In his debut, he actually had a lot of follow ups from his rekka series). After his rekka you can use another teleport to get out of the way or continue your assault (s.D reset after rekka > teleport): [/SIZE][SIZE=4][FONT=times new roman]s.D, f A, Rekkas x3, qcf B, s.C (reset).[/FONT][/SIZE] Also his s.B hits LOW and is cancellable. I guess you can play keep away… but, he is not Dhalsim. Although, he can be predictable due to his… limited move set, it’s simple to blow up any opponent. A defensive/turtling opponent will fall easily to his teleport (cross-up…). The truth is, Duo Lon has VERY few weaknesses. In this position, he can cripple the opposing team. Duo Lon’s projectile (qcb. A) has a good start up and can stop other projectiles (not DM ones) and you can trap the opponent this way. Last, the player can easily cancel into his DM from f.A or f.B.
Battery:
… Mid tier. Again… you can still beat the crap out of your opponent. Duo Lon HD combo options are limited and his damage output is not good… not that it NEEDS to be, but hey! Duo Lon still plays the same role. You CAN zone your opponent with his f.A, f.B, his air f.B, his teleport, and projectile. Then the player can capitalize with his BnB’s whenever the opponent leaves himself open. There really isn’t that much to say for Duo Lon in this position (a lot of new players have a habit of putting Duo Lon in the second position for some odd reason). Duo Lon is still going to be better off in the first position.
Anchor:
… Mid tier. Same as above… But… Don’t forget about his EX teleport. It goes THROUGH projectiles and you can punish others like this for free. Duo Lon seems to only have one staple 5 stock HD combo. None of his HD combos are THAT damaging. It is possible to do extremely damaging combos from his EX Rekkas however. Duo Lon can sit comfortably at mid-screen. Actually, Duo Lon works the best at mid-screen and close range. For decent damage output the player could go for a qcf rekka x3 > teleport > EX DM for good meter usage (he can do this in the first position too, should the second character not need meter). Putting Duo Lon in this position is not recommended.