I donât like it at first blush either, but Iâm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now. DMs, EXDMx, EX moves, and Climaxes all take the same resource now, and a change in properties could make a DM and an EX be effectively the same thing. Heck, Iori and Kâ DP EXs in XIII WERE old DMs.
If the properties of certain DMs on different button presses get enough attention, what we really might have could fell less like a straight loss of EX at neutral, and more like a shifting to where EXâs didnât give so many character so many tools they were never meant to have (such as giving non DP characters DP like reversals), rather limiting them to 2 XIII-EX-like tools through DMs.
Could you not still pop MAX after a blocked normal in neutral? This makes EXâs more of a continual pressure tool rather than a reversal tool, but this might not be bad for a game that favours aggression like KoF.
When I heard EXs were behind max, this is a change I expected to happen later in development. Not as sure now, but the side of me that loved EXs in XIII would easily welcome it.
Eh, I think Heavy D!'s powered up moves from his d,d+P state feel like a genesis of EX moves. Then we had things in other SNK games like Tungâs meter-burn moves in NGBC, and the TOP system in Garou, and even some DMs in KoF. I donât think the idea is so foreign to SNK games, which often had way more Super versions of normal moves than most fighters in Capcom games.
I feel that XIII did EXs better than SF, because they turned them into moveset-expanding tools. While I think many here on SRK dislike this aspect (seeing it as a method that gave some characters tools that they find unneeded or goofy), I think it was a better implementation of the large movelist KoF characters have traditionally had. There were so many motions, for many things that kind of did the same thing. Why does Athena need 2 FIreballs (Psycho Ball and Psycho Shoot), when one of them could just be an EX of the other? Terry has had DP+K act as his motion for Power Dunk and Rising Tackle over the years, why not just make one an EX of the other? Some moves honestly donât need 2 strength variations, if you only ever find use for 1 variety of it. You see such comments all the time in SRK wiki write-ups. Hiding the clutter behind EX variations gave less change for input errors getting the wrong moves, it make the movelist somewhat more concise, and it allowed developers to give a wider range of tools, as some highly sought after properties were tied to meter use.
Most SFIV EXâs just felt like âBigger damage of the normal variationâ, and offered little new strategic options. (SFV is better at this to me, which Iâm happy about.) KoFâs gave guard point, invincibility, throw invuln, or full screen options to characters that didnât have them in their normal special moves. It really made it feel like you could shift styles to something normally denied to that character (such as giving Leona a Meter-dependent full screen projectile that didnât have suicidal start-up!), and this is an element that brings me back to the game quite often.
Past that, I like your analogy of seeing it like V-Trigger. I think the change, if itâs worked out right, could be very refreshing. Non MAX mode feels more like 98, and MAX feels like a refined XIII. Some character could benefit more from one mode of play than others. If tuned right, I think it could make different types of Battery, Limited-Meter use, and Anchor full-resource blowout characters, that could help differentiate gameplay away from all boiling down to HD-Anchors as the de-facto last slot. I think Drive Cancels VS Full HD were suppose to do this in XIII, but unfortunately, it favored one too greatly.
While I was surpised too, we should remember that the cost of these combos is often way lower than in KOFXIII. Doing a MAX mode cancel and two EX moves costs 1 bar in KOFXIV, while that would cost all of your HD and two bar in KOFXIII. That is a significant buff.
That being said, itâs obvious that the devs are taking clear inspiration from KOFXIII damage values. And that sucks ass.
Someone earlier said it doesnât really matter as long as the damage of combos is fine (canât find the comment right now). But thatâs bullocks. It heavily skews the damage output in favour of the person that jumps like an offensive mongoloid. The person who gets the jump-in does 10x more damage than the person that consistently anti-airs the opponent.
There is no good way of demotivating your opponent from jumping like an idiot, if getting anti-aired solidly 3x does WAY less damage than hitting a jump-in combo once. Itâs essential that the damage is more evenly distributed around normals and specials.
There is a reason why normals in older KOFs would often even do more damage than the specials. KOF is a normals game.
Either. From Arcade play back in the day to the PSX, Saturn, 360 controller, Joystick in Neo setup, Joystick in modern⌠I can get used to KoF in any way itâs played. But I default to the 4 square buttons, even on joysticks, now. It feels like the games are designed with that layout in mind now.
Was me, and the reasoning is, if a Stand C does good damage in the neutral game, in 98, but now the same stand C, into a confirm into a few moves does roughly equal, itâs a change of how the damage is presented, and acted out, but ultimately not much more. This was in consideration of grounded normals.
As far as Anti-Air? I see your point there. Though I wonder if their line of thinking is that things like wall-splat CD might make up for this? Not to mention the increase damage from weak normals.
The person who gets the opening gets the damage. Isnât this how most fights go? Strong defense is great, but ultimately, maybe they want to force a player to commit to aggression and make a solid play. The Removal of EX use from neutral, and forced into an element of aggression might support this theory.
Everyone has a different story on what KoF is, ha. Iâve heard SF players say normals and footsies were too weak in KoF, because the quick jumps devalue ârealâ anti-airs. SF is the game where not-jumping is the baseline, and KoF craps all over that philosophy! :bawling:
Past that nonsense, how true has KoF being a Normalâs game been in the most recent installments? To me, the way this came across is that I feel like I can use Heavy normals much more aggressively, compared to other fighters. It has less to do with the pure damage, and more to do with the fact that the priority of a properly used normal felt great. I can stop ground and jump offense with a far D with King, and stay safer than trying to pressure with Tornado Kicks or jumped Double Strikes. Thereâs ground CDâs that jump sweeps! Thereâs normal Dashes that go under air-born projectiles! Thereâs sweeps that can be cancelled into command parries and specials to make them safeÂŽ! Resetting someone to neutral with an AA+some damage, or getting to run in and start mixups for large, ground-based combo damage felt like reward enough from AAing. If I want damage from an AA, I commit to a riskier special / DM. If I want control, I throw out a fairly low-risk normal.
Can the stronger normals game you mention not be adapted to a character-focused design? Couldnât Maxima, KoD, and Chang play in this way, but people like Iori and Kyo are more jumping, combo dependent?
At the end of the day damage has to be high or the matches would take too long, this is after all a 3v3 team battle game.
The way damage has been adjusted from XIV is that you canât seem to be able to do huge/kill combos anymore but mid-sized combos have become more relevant. So you will need to land a few combos instead of just one or two.
And jumping is an essential part of the KOF play style, if they make it too dangerous then that creates a problem.
No it wouldnât.
You can do a heck of a lot more with full HD and 2 bars in XIII than that, a lot of characters can deal 80%+ damage with that amount of meter.
Sorry for chiming into the discussion, but a few years ago, CrossCounter did a tutorial series on King of Fighters XIII by Henry Choi, and in this particular video below - Choi gives a few recommendations for people to pick a character coming from a Street Fighter IV background
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZWtKNI3nrI&nohtml5=False
He named the following:
- Andy (âKOFâs Kenâ)
- Ryo (âE. Honda with Danâs Fireballâ
- Saiki (âRyu with better mobilityâ)
- Mr. Karate (I suppose Takuma fits in as well?) (âVery much like Ryuâ)
- Kensou (âRyu with rekkasâ)
- King (âSagat with Air Fireballsâ)
- Robert (âRyu with a divekickâ)
- Clark (âKinda like Abelâ)
- Billy (âCody with a DPâ)
- Mature (âSheâs like Fei Long with a fireballâ)
- Terry (âA faster Makoto without command grabsâ)
- Mai (âA lot like Vega with a fireballâ)
- Maxima (âA faster T. Hawkâ)
- Athena (âEl Fuerte with fireballâ)
- Joe (âreminds me of Dee Jayâ)
- Ash (âKinda like Guileâ)
Would you agree with that?
Being a ninja does not make you a kunoichi. A kunoichi is special type of ninja called a kunoichi that fights using their physical attraction as weapons(like mai).
Hell no lol.
Most of those are terrible.
Alright well I think you guys were right in saying the execution with KOF98 isnât that bad. I think it must have something to do with Fightcade cause I canât do supers reliably in 3s and that has never happened to me since like ever lol.
Anyways back on topic, I hate how low the damage output is in this game. I donât get why SNK would make every hit like a kitten if they wanted to return back to the series roots with 98 and 2002.
The seriesâs roots were good offense and offense control. Footsies was the main focus, not damage.
i dont think itâs fightcade⌠maybe it is your bad internet connection⌠why dont u try the games in offline mode in fightcade?
Those footsies and space control were dictated by damage. Pokes hit like trucks in 98, Ralf far C does like 12%, Daimon st.D is like 10% at least, you had to be careful around these buttons because they could kill you. This is not the case in XIV and it could pose a problem later on.
I meanât hitboxes but yeah. Though, I doubt the damage right now is final. Theyâll probably start shifting numbers around when they have all the part of their system sorted out.
Hopefully there is a theme park stage in KOF 14, my favorite KOF stages were the city and theme park ones and Iâm sure a city one will come back.
the stages seem to be lacking in detail so far. they are all very plain feeling, even the ones that arent plain sych as neo esaka just feel empty.
The Another World Team stage could be a Neo Geo Theme Park just like the one in 2002UM. Or maybe inside the Neo Geo Land in Osaka.
WTF? No.
Seems like this guy threw those comparisons together from the slightest of similarities.
They feel empty because they are empty because they arenât finished yet. In the daily screenshots you can see them slowly adding in background elements and spectators. Everything in the game as we have seen it is work in progress.
Everything weâve seen from the game up to this point is beta. We have no idea how much of the current development build is reflected in these teasers, but given how some characters look straight alpha at times I wouldnât be surprised if what weâre seeing is very early iterations of the characters and stages.